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Since: Oct 19, 2005 Posts: 53
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:28 am
Post subject: Ovinomancer Archived from groups: rec>games>trading-cards>magic>rules (more info?)
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Two questions on Ovinomancer:
Here's the oracle text:
- When Ovinomancer comes into play, sacrifice it unless you return
three basic lands you control to their owner's hand.
- Tap, Return Ovinomancer to its owner's hand: Destroy target creature.
It can't be regenerated. That creature's controller puts a 0/1 green
Sheep creature token into play.
First, if I have something that grants everything haste (say Anger in
the 'yard), I believe I can tap & bounce Ovinomancer in response to the
Comes-Into-Play ability going on the stack (assuming a valid target).
If I do, then I can choose to not sacrifice 3 lands and I won't have to
sacrifice Ovinomancer either, because he'd be gone. Correct?
Second, if I cast Brand, and I've Ovinomanced several of my opponent's
creatures, do I get the tokens? It says the creature's controller puts
the token into play, but since I control the effect, I think I still
own it. Is this correct?
Because, how embarrassing would it be to beat the snot out of an
opponent with his "own" sheep tokens. Think: Brand at end of your
turn, Coat of Arms, attack with killer Sheep, laugh maniacally until
the milk comes out your nose.
Peter
***
Anger {3R}
Creature - Incarnation 2/2
Judgement Uncommon
- Haste
- As long as Anger is in your graveyard and you control a Mountain,
creatures you control have haste.
***
Brand {R}
Instant
Urza's Saga Rare
- Gain control of all permanents you own. (This effect doesn't end at
end of turn.)
- Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
***
Coat of Arms {5}
Artifact
Exodus Rare
- Each creature gets +1/+1 for each other creature in play that shares
a creature type with it. (For example, if a Goblin Warrior, a Goblin
Scout, and a Zombie Goblin are in play, each gets +2/+2.)
***
Ovinomancer {2U}
Creature - Human Wizard 0/1
Visions Uncommon
- When Ovinomancer comes into play, sacrifice it unless you return
three basic lands you control to their owner's hand.
- T, Return Ovinomancer to its owner's hand: Destroy target creature.
It can't be regenerated. That creature's controller puts a 0/1 green
Sheep creature token into play.
*** >> Stay informed about: Ovinomancer |
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Since: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 17
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Ovinomancer [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Risser wrote:
> Two questions on Ovinomancer:
> Here's the oracle text:
> - When Ovinomancer comes into play, sacrifice it unless you return
> three basic lands you control to their owner's hand.
> - Tap, Return Ovinomancer to its owner's hand: Destroy target creature.
> It can't be regenerated. That creature's controller puts a 0/1 green
> Sheep creature token into play.
>
> First, if I have something that grants everything haste (say Anger in
> the 'yard), I believe I can tap & bounce Ovinomancer in response to the
> Comes-Into-Play ability going on the stack (assuming a valid target).
> If I do, then I can choose to not sacrifice 3 lands and I won't have to
> sacrifice Ovinomancer either, because he'd be gone. Correct?
All correct. Rule 212.3d states that the restriction on playing
creatures' activated abilities with {Tap} symbol is ignored for
creatures with haste, and the triggered ability does not resolve from
the stack until both (all) players pass in succession. So rather than
passing priority after Ovinomancer comes into play and its triggered
ability goes onto the stack, you just play it ("in response", indeed)
and return Ovinomancer to your hand long before you are presented with
the choice of returning lands or sacrificing Ovinomancer. And since by
then Ovinomancer is long gone, rule 103.3 lets us ignore the impossible
action.
>
> Second, if I cast Brand, and I've Ovinomanced several of my opponent's
> creatures, do I get the tokens? It says the creature's controller puts
> the token into play, but since I control the effect, I think I still
> own it. Is this correct?
Yes, it is. Rule 216.1 explicitly says "A token is controlled by
whomever put it into play
and owned by the controller of the spell or ability that created it",
which is exactly what you stated.
Good luck polymorphing your opponent's creatures!
Regards,
Arkady. >> Stay informed about: Ovinomancer |
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Since: Jun 19, 2004 Posts: 996
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Ovinomancer [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Risser <peterrisser.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>Two questions on Ovinomancer:
>Here's the oracle text:
>- When Ovinomancer comes into play, sacrifice it unless you return
>three basic lands you control to their owner's hand.
>- Tap, Return Ovinomancer to its owner's hand: Destroy target creature.
>It can't be regenerated. That creature's controller puts a 0/1 green
>Sheep creature token into play.
>
>First, if I have something that grants everything haste (say Anger in
>the 'yard), I believe I can tap & bounce Ovinomancer in response to the
>Comes-Into-Play ability going on the stack (assuming a valid target).
Yep. The first ability's triggered; the second ability's activated; both
use the stack, so the second could be used in response to the first if
nothing else is preventing it. Summon-sickness is usually preventing this,
since the second ability has a Tap in the activation cost ... but giving it
Haste before the first ability resolves lets you use the second one in
response, yes.
>If I do, then I can choose to not sacrifice 3 lands and I won't have to
>sacrifice Ovinomancer either, because he'd be gone. Correct?
Right. The first one's the same as "When ~ comes into play, you may return
three basic lands you control to owner's hand. If you don't, sacrifice ~.".
>Second, if I cast Brand, and I've Ovinomanced several of my opponent's
>creatures, do I get the tokens? It says the creature's controller puts
>the token into play, but since I control the effect, I think I still
>own it. Is this correct?
Rulebook sez "A token is controlled by whomever put it into play and owned by
the controller of the spell or ability that created it." (216.1), so yes,
that's correct; they control the tokens initially, but you own them.
>Because, how embarrassing would it be to beat the snot out of an
>opponent with his "own" sheep tokens. Think: Brand at end of your
>turn, Coat of Arms, attack with killer Sheep, laugh maniacally until
>the milk comes out your nose.
All it needs is squirrels and reindeer...
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd.TakeThisOut@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K. >> Stay informed about: Ovinomancer |
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Since: Mar 30, 2006 Posts: 124
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Ovinomancer [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Risser <peterrisser.DeleteThis@gmail.com> sent:
> Two questions on Ovinomancer:
> Here's the oracle text:
Ovinomancer {2}{U} Creature - Human Wizard 0/1
/ When Ovinomancer comes into play, sacrifice it unless you return
three basic lands you control to their owner's hand.
/ {T}, Return Ovinomancer to its owner's hand: Destroy target creature.
It can't be regenerated. That creature's controller puts a 0/1 green
Sheep creature token into play.
> First, if I have something that grants everything haste (say Anger in
> the 'yard), I believe I can tap & bounce Ovinomancer in response to the
> Comes-Into-Play ability going on the stack (assuming a valid target).
> If I do, then I can choose to not sacrifice 3 lands and I won't have to
> sacrifice Ovinomancer either, because he'd be gone. Correct?
Yup, that all works out fine. You can even, if you so wish, play the
Ovinomancer's ability targeting itself. You'll pay the cost of
returning it to owner's hand after you choose the target, and way
before the ability tries to resolve.
> Second, if I cast Brand, and I've Ovinomanced several of my opponent's
> creatures, do I get the tokens?
Yes. You controlled the Ovinomancer and its ability, so you're the
controller of the ability that created the tokens. This makes you
the owner of the tokens (the controller of the tokens is the player
who put them into play).
--
-- Zoe Stephenson, NetRep rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules
Group FAQ: http://www.boondock.org.uk/~zoe/mtgrules/ --
-- >> Stay informed about: Ovinomancer |
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