Overhealing with clique and grid

On Mon, 26 May 2008 11:52:21 +0100, Trooper
<removethis.TakeThisOut@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:

>Zizii (my priest) is now L25 and getting ready to be an angel of mercy
>in the battlegrounds again for a few levels.
>
>I don't think i'm very mana efficient though, I run out of mana pretty
>quick in battlegrounds and i'm pretty sure I'm overhealing.
>Is there an easy way to make grid and clique automatically only use the
>level of heal that will get a character to max? Benecast used to be
>able to do that and it was very useful.

I suspect not, I remember that feature of Benecast as it was why I used
GroupButtons instead - I wanted to choose my own ranks and Benecast
wouldn't let me

What you can do is set up more than one rank of your heals and choose
between them yourself - I don't use clique myself (due to getting easily
confused over bindings; I can't even always get right and left clicks right
in decursive, never mind adding extra modifers ), but I have my
actionbars set up with 2 ranks of greater heal, when I get a bit more
+healing I may also set up a lower rank of flash heal too. The greater heal
ranks makes a huge difference though; it's about half the mana for 3/4 of
the strength of heal.if I use rank 3 instead of 7. Trouble is in BGs I
rarely use greater heal at all due to just not having enough time to cast
that long a cast - it's like saying "silence me now" to cast one spell for
so long

>Also, I just picked up holy nova, is this useful at all? I can't really
>see a use for it at the moment...

Snake traps and stopping people who are trying to cap flags in AB/AV. Rank
1 is enough to stop the flag caps, just any direct damage at all,
unfortunately it's not quite high enough for the snakes so I just use max
rank on those, or rank 1 twice (having run out of actionbar space to add
rank 2 as well )

Ah, reread, level 25... ok, you won't meet any snakes for a while But
it's still good for the flag cap stopping, just keep rank 1 on your bars
even after you get a higher rank and spam it when you see people trying to
open the flag next to you - it can and does save flags at times.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 70)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On 26 Maj, 12:52, Trooper <removet... DeleteThis @trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> I don't think i'm very mana efficient though, I run out of mana pretty
> quick in battlegrounds and i'm pretty sure I'm overhealing.
> Is there an easy way to make grid and clique automatically only use the
> level of heal that will get a character to max? Benecast used to be
> able to do that and it was very useful.

It's no longer possible for an addon to auto-select spell to cast
during combat. Out of combat it works though.

--
Regards
Matt
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On May 27, 8:58 am, Trooper <removet....TakeThisOut@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <b31ec931-5ed4-4760-af54-34db67bdbc9c@
> 34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, mateusz.woj....TakeThisOut@gmail.com says...
>
> > On 26 Maj, 12:52, Trooper <removet....TakeThisOut@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> > > I don't think i'm very mana efficient though, I run out of mana pretty
> > > quick in battlegrounds and i'm pretty sure I'm overhealing.
> > > Is there an easy way to make grid and clique automatically only use the
> > > level of heal that will get a character to max?  Benecast used to be
> > > able to do that and it was very useful.
>
> > It's no longer possible for an addon to auto-select spell to cast
> > during combat. Out of combat it works though.
>
> Ah, ok.  
>
> What I have done is get grid to show the health deficit for everyone, so
> I know how much healing they need.  I'll just have to use my feeble
> brain to select the spell level.

Does your grid work fine in battlegrounds? I think I still have the
problem that grid is showing a player at half health, but someone has
already healed them to full. I used clique and my instant cast HoTs
(druid) so it's very easy to just shift-click every single square on
grid that looks like it could use healing. So often I don't even know
that I'm overhealing, or healing for nothing, but occassionally I
check by selecting a person, only to find he/she is at full health,
but grid shows half health.

I asked before but no-one else seems to have this problem. I wonder if
it's other addons slowing things down?

Also, I wish I had the patience to figure grid out. Every time I sit
down to try and customise it I get so lost and irritated that I give
up. If anyone has some simple tips that improved the basic display,
feel free to let me know (with full instructions on how to set them).
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On 27 May, 09:45, "Mark (newsgroups)" <marknewsgro... RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Does your grid work fine in battlegrounds? I think I still have the
> problem that grid is showing a player at half health, but someone has
> already healed them to full. I used clique and my instant cast HoTs
> (druid) so it's very easy to just shift-click every single square on
> grid that looks like it could use healing. So often I don't even know
> that I'm overhealing, or healing for nothing, but occassionally I
> check by selecting a person, only to find he/she is at full health,
> but grid shows half health.

> I asked before but no-one else seems to have this problem. I wonder if
> it's other addons slowing things down?

It used to be like that for me too. I think that it was linked to
having a centre icon shown whilst in combat. Once the centre icon was
there it didn't seem to update unless you click on the square (kinda
against the point of having Grid+Clique).

I don't know if it is still a problem as I turned the centre icon off
because of it but it's something to look at.


> Also, I wish I had the patience to figure grid out. Every time I sit
> down to try and customise it I get so lost and irritated that I give
> up. If anyone has some simple tips that improved the basic display,
> feel free to let me know (with full instructions on how to set them).

What would you like it to show you that it doesn't now? I wonder if
the config is transferable then maybe you could have my config file?

Things that I know I have changed are the positions of debuff
indicators - I have them configured as the spells that I have to cure
them: top left shows poisons and alt-left mouse button cures poisons;
top right shows curses and alt-right mouse button cures them. (or it
could be the other way around )

I've also added flag carrier icons for WSG and EotS flag carriers
(which brings me back to the earlier point - I've not noticed
incorrect health displays on my flag carriers so maybe that's not the
problem)

I can't remember changing much else for my Druid but you never know

I think that the best approach is to configure Grid in bits. Add
this, add that etc. Don't just sit down and try to change everything
at once. That's how I have done it - I wanted a flag carrier
indicator so I added that, another time I wanted PW:S and Weakened
Soul indicators on my Priest so I added those.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On 27 May, 12:54, Trooper <removet....TakeThisOut@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <2f793500-4b8b-4283-95f7-
> 9263090cc....TakeThisOut@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, nos....TakeThisOut@giddy-kippers.co.uk
> says...
>
> > Things that I know I have changed are the positions of debuff
> > indicators - I have them configured as the spells that I have to cure
> > them: top left shows poisons and alt-left mouse button cures poisons;
> > top right shows curses and alt-right mouse button cures them.  (or it
> > could be the other way around )
>
> I have mine setup so the main square is the health bar which starts full
> and empties as people get damage (reverse colours I think>), centre text
> 1 is name, centre text 2 is health deficit.  Top left is threat, top
> right is magic or disease debuff, bottom right is PW:S, bottom left is
> incoming heal or HoT.
> The grid bar goes grey if the character is out of range and the outer
> edge goes blue when they are out of mana.  (It also goes whit
> occasionally!  No idea why, I should find out really )

The default setup is for the border to go white when you target the
player.


> Left click casts heal, shift left click casts flash heal.
> Middle click casts renew, shift middle casts inner fire (only useful for
> me!  I might change that), ctrl middle casts fortitude.
> Right click casts PW:S, shift right click cures magic, ctrl right click
> cures disease.

I couldn't cope with all my buffs on there too. I generally only have
heals, cures and targetted shields on there.


> > I've also added flag carrier icons for WSG and EotS flag carriers
> > (which brings me back to the earlier point - I've not noticed
> > incorrect health displays on my flag carriers so maybe that's not the
> > problem)
>
> I've also got DeadlyBossMod which shows that I think (something does
> anyway!) plus timers etc...

When I added those markers I didn't have anything else do it for me.
The in game score now tells me who has the flag - I don't know if
Blizzard did that or if an addon is doing it. I wouldn't have thought
that DBM would have done it but you never know.


> > I think that the best approach is to configure Grid in bits.  Add
> > this, add that etc.  Don't just sit down and try to change everything
> > at once.  That's how I have done it - I wanted a flag carrier
> > indicator so I added that, another time I wanted PW:S and Weakened
> > Soul indicators on my Priest so I added those.
>
> It is a real bitch to setup and the only advice I have is that you just
> need to go in and change something and see what happens...

The problem with that is that you can do something and nothing
happens. A lot of features need you to change things in two places,
once to allow the indicator to be used and once to actually put the
indicator on the Grid.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On 27 May, 12:43, Trooper <removet....TakeThisOut@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <483bdc2f$0$26084$db0fe...@news.zen.co.uk>, zen13097
> @zen.co.uk says...

> > I suggest installing VisualHeal - it'll give you a great indication of
> > how much overhealing the spell you're currently casting will do. If it's
> > a lot of overheal, simply stop casting (and maybe cast a lower rank
> > version).
>
> Thanks, I'll take a look

As you use Grid there is an addon module for it that adds this
feature.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On May 27, 3:58 am, Trooper <removet....RemoveThis@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <b31ec931-5ed4-4760-af54-34db67bdbc9c@
> 34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, mateusz.woj....RemoveThis@gmail.com says...
>
> > On 26 Maj, 12:52, Trooper <removet....RemoveThis@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> > > I don't think i'm very mana efficient though, I run out of mana pretty
> > > quick in battlegrounds and i'm pretty sure I'm overhealing.
> > > Is there an easy way to make grid and clique automatically only use the
> > > level of heal that will get a character to max? Benecast used to be
> > > able to do that and it was very useful.
>
> > It's no longer possible for an addon to auto-select spell to cast
> > during combat. Out of combat it works though.
>
> Ah, ok.
>
> What I have done is get grid to show the health deficit for everyone, so
> I know how much healing they need. I'll just have to use my feeble
> brain to select the spell level.
>
> T.

Instead of doing [or trying to do] the math in your head, you could
try getting the addon... DrDamage [http://www.wowace.com/wiki/
DrDamage]. It shows the damage/healing done by said spell in the
hotkey icon of your spellbar.

[Supposedly] accounts for all your +dmg/heal gear, talents, buffs,
etc.

Also, the mouseover display is nice... it tells you how many times you
can cast said spell/skill before OOMing, total damage/healing done
before OOM, and a bunch of other nifty info.
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On May 27, 10:16 am, "steve.kaye" <nos....TakeThisOut@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
> On 27 May, 09:45, "Mark (newsgroups)" <marknewsgro....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Does your grid work fine in battlegrounds? I think I still have the
> > problem that grid is showing a player at half health, but someone has
> > already healed them to full. I used clique and my instant cast HoTs
> > (druid) so it's very easy to just shift-click every single square on
> > grid that looks like it could use healing. So often I don't even know
> > that I'm overhealing, or healing for nothing, but occassionally I
> > check by selecting a person, only to find he/she is at full health,
> > but grid shows half health.
> > I asked before but no-one else seems to have this problem. I wonder if
> > it's other addons slowing things down?
>
> It used to be like that for me too.  I think that it was linked to
> having a centre icon shown whilst in combat.  Once the centre icon was
> there it didn't seem to update unless you click on the square (kinda
> against the point of having Grid+Clique).
>
> I don't know if it is still a problem as I turned the centre icon off
> because of it but it's something to look at.

Sorry, what do you mean by centre icon? My grid is still at pretty
much default settings which shows player name in the center, health
only (no mana), etc.

> > Also, I wish I had the patience to figure grid out. Every time I sit
> > down to try and customise it I get so lost and irritated that I give
> > up. If anyone has some simple tips that improved the basic display,
> > feel free to let me know (with full instructions on how to set them).
>
> What would you like it to show you that it doesn't now?  I wonder if
> the config is transferable then maybe you could have my config file?

I can't recall now

I haven't looked at the config in some time as I just kind of accepted
the default. But there have been times on my druid where I think "I
don't want to see that debuff" or "I wish I could show such and such".
I'll do some BGs tonight (or soon) and fiddle around again and report
back. Could be worth trying the config file.

> Things that I know I have changed are the positions of debuff
> indicators - I have them configured as the spells that I have to cure
> them: top left shows poisons and alt-left mouse button cures poisons;
> top right shows curses and alt-right mouse button cures them.  (or it
> could be the other way around )

Ok, to be honest I've never really understood all that, in fact the
only indicator I notice regularly is the red dot in the top left which
I have always assumed meant "taking damage" or "has aggro" since when
it's there the players health is generally decreasing. Debuffs don't
*seem* to appear the the corners, they are displayed covering the
whole health bar. So I know when to cure poisons and remove curses,
but it also shows magic and other debuffs that are of no use to me to
see as a druid.

> I've also added flag carrier icons for WSG and EotS flag carriers
> (which brings me back to the earlier point - I've not noticed
> incorrect health displays on my flag carriers so maybe that's not the
> problem)

That's useful. This is kind of what I was looking for, but how do you
do it?

> I can't remember changing much else for my Druid but you never know
>
> I think that the best approach is to configure Grid in bits.  Add
> this, add that etc.  Don't just sit down and try to change everything
> at once.  That's how I have done it - I wanted a flag carrier
> indicator so I added that, another time I wanted PW:S and Weakened
> Soul indicators on my Priest so I added those.

Thanks.
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On May 27, 2:09 pm, Vahn <vahn.yu....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 27, 3:58 am, Trooper <removet....RemoveThis@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <b31ec931-5ed4-4760-af54-34db67bdbc9c@
> > 34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, mateusz.woj....RemoveThis@gmail.com says...
>
> > > On 26 Maj, 12:52, Trooper <removet....RemoveThis@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > I don't think i'm very mana efficient though, I run out of mana pretty
> > > > quick in battlegrounds and i'm pretty sure I'm overhealing.
> > > > Is there an easy way to make grid and clique automatically only use the
> > > > level of heal that will get a character to max?  Benecast used to be
> > > > able to do that and it was very useful.
>
> > > It's no longer possible for an addon to auto-select spell to cast
> > > during combat. Out of combat it works though.
>
> > Ah, ok.
>
> > What I have done is get grid to show the health deficit for everyone, so
> > I know how much healing they need.  I'll just have to use my feeble
> > brain to select the spell level.
>
> > T.
>
> Instead of doing [or trying to do] the math in your head, you could
> try getting the addon... DrDamage [http://www.wowace.com/wiki/
> DrDamage]. It shows the damage/healing done by said spell in the
> hotkey icon of your spellbar.
>
> [Supposedly] accounts for all your +dmg/heal gear, talents, buffs,
> etc.
>
> Also, the mouseover display is nice... it tells you how many times you
> can cast said spell/skill before OOMing, total damage/healing done
> before OOM, and a bunch of other nifty info.

Thing is, is it even worth it to try and cast the exact level of heal
needed? Your heals have a cast time, and if someone is in combat then
surely by the time you get your exact heal off they'll have taken more
damage?
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On May 27, 2:22 pm, Trooper <removet....TakeThisOut@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <046faffb-95c7-48ec-9807-c7df0665fde4
> @j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, vahn.yu....TakeThisOut@gmail.com says...
> > Instead of doing [or trying to do] the math in your head, you could
> > try getting the addon... DrDamage [http://www.wowace.com/wiki/
> > DrDamage]. It shows the damage/healing done by said spell in the
> > hotkey icon of your spellbar.

<snip>

> > Also, the mouseover display is nice... it tells you how many times you
> > can cast said spell/skill before OOMing, total damage/healing done
> > before OOM, and a bunch of other nifty info.
>
> Sold!  I'm a total sucker for anything stat wise.  If there was an addon
> that all it did was tell you how many times you looked at that addon,
> i'd probably install it...

Heheh!

Actually Dr. Damage is nice, I use it myself for info purposes. One
thing you'll want to do though is disable the "full tooltip text" on
mouseover. It contains a *lot* of information but it's quite large and
obscures your view. You can set it so it shows the normal smaller
tooltip on standard mouse hover, and it only shows all the Dr. Damage
info when you hold shift.
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On May 27, 9:28 am, Trooper <removet....TakeThisOut@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <f0a51b8d-9b3a-459e-95be-04c594e92364
> @y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, marknewsgro....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com says...
>
> > On May 27, 2:09 pm, Vahn <vahn.yu....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On May 27, 3:58 am, Trooper <removet....TakeThisOut@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Thing is, is it even worth it to try and cast the exact level of heal
> > needed? Your heals have a cast time, and if someone is in combat then
> > surely by the time you get your exact heal off they'll have taken more
> > damage?
>
> True, and that is something that I imagine you get better at working out
> on the fly as time goes by.  However, quite often I will shield before
> healing, so their health isn't going down while I cast.
>
> I'm not really concerned about making sure i'm using the exact spell
> level, just whether it would be better to do a flash heal or greater
> heal, or a rank 2 rather than a max rank.  
>
> T.

Not sure if you PVE, but NEVER do that to your tank unless s/he has a
high threat lead, and is going to die unless you do that. Popping a
shield will not only start a Rage starvation, but will kill the threat
the tank is pulling, and most likely you (the healer) will be the
recipient of a good bashing
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On 27 May, 15:09, colemanj4 <colema....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 27, 9:28 am, Trooper <removet....DeleteThis@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:

> > True, and that is something that I imagine you get better at working out
> > on the fly as time goes by.  However, quite often I will shield before
> > healing, so their health isn't going down while I cast.
>
> > I'm not really concerned about making sure i'm using the exact spell
> > level, just whether it would be better to do a flash heal or greater
> > heal, or a rank 2 rather than a max rank.  
>
> Not sure if you PVE, but NEVER do that to your tank unless s/he has a
> high threat lead, and is going to die unless you do that. Popping a
> shield will not only start a Rage starvation, but will kill the threat
> the tank is pulling, and most likely you (the healer) will be the
> recipient of a good bashing

I think that the downsides of PW:S are overhyped to be honest. When I
was levelling my priest I grouped with a warrior and a warlock and for
a time I went shadow and stayed in shadow form. I used PW:S on the
warrior as an addition to the VE healing and he never complained about
rage starvation. I even asked him if it was affecting his rage and he
said that he didn't notice a difference. In my experience as a Druid
most of your rage seems to come from the damage you do rather than the
damage you take. I've run into a fight before now and forgot to turn
auto-attack on and wondered why I had no rage for my abilities. If
you're at the point where more rage comes from incoming damage then
the shield won't last very long anyway.

I've even read articles that suggest it would be beneficial to pre-
shield and pre-POM a tank in heroics. The reason being that casting
those spells before the fight gives no aggro and basically removes the
damage from the first hit giving the tank a few more seconds to get
aggro over the priest before they need healing. The DPS might have to
hold back a little but they should be doing anyway.

Having said that, I never use shield on tanks unless I've fallen
asleep and they need it quickly.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid 

On May 27, 10:40 am, "steve.kaye" <nos... DeleteThis @giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
> On 27 May, 15:09, colemanj4 <colema... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 27, 9:28 am, Trooper <removet... DeleteThis @trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> > > True, and that is something that I imagine you get better at working out
> > > on the fly as time goes by.  However, quite often I will shield before
> > > healing, so their health isn't going down while I cast.
>
> > > I'm not really concerned about making sure i'm using the exact spell
> > > level, just whether it would be better to do a flash heal or greater
> > > heal, or a rank 2 rather than a max rank.  
>
> > Not sure if you PVE, but NEVER do that to your tank unless s/he has a
> > high threat lead, and is going to die unless you do that. Popping a
> > shield will not only start a Rage starvation, but will kill the threat
> > the tank is pulling, and most likely you (the healer) will be the
> > recipient of a good bashing
>
> I think that the downsides of PW:S are overhyped to be honest.  When I
> was levelling my priest I grouped with a warrior and a warlock and for
> a time I went shadow and stayed in shadow form.  I used PW:S on the
> warrior as an addition to the VE healing and he never complained about
> rage starvation.  I even asked him if it was affecting his rage and he
> said that he didn't notice a difference.  In my experience as a Druid
> most of your rage seems to come from the damage you do rather than the
> damage you take.  I've run into a fight before now and forgot to turn
> auto-attack on and wondered why I had no rage for my abilities.  If
> you're at the point where more rage comes from incoming damage then
> the shield won't last very long anyway.
>
> I've even read articles that suggest it would be beneficial to pre-
> shield and pre-POM a tank in heroics.  The reason being that casting
> those spells before the fight gives no aggro and basically removes the
> damage from the first hit giving the tank a few more seconds to get
> aggro over the priest before they need healing.  The DPS might have to
> hold back a little but they should be doing anyway.
>
> Having said that, I never use shield on tanks unless I've fallen
> asleep and they need it quickly.  
>
> steve.kaye

Yea, as a druid rage starvation is hard to get once a fight is going
(especially if I use my rage generation spell before a pull), but a
lot of our threat comes from being hit, so being shielded going into
the start of the fight, I have always had more trouble gaining threat
(especially if it is on a multi-mob pull) if the preist shields me.

My main problem with PW:S when it has been used on me is that I have
lost threat / aggro to the dps (usually the destro lock who gets 2
shadowbolt crits in at that same time), or those secondary mobs will
peel off to the healer once they see they can't hurt me anymore.
 >> Stay informed about: Overhealing with clique and grid