Ousting Myself With Special Report?

Jozxyqk wrote:
> You pay 1 pool to get +1 intercept, and then you're ousted.
> So your minion is no longer attempting to block.

Yeah, that is what we figured, but as it never came up before, I
thought I'd ask

> But I guess that means that your predator's new prey now has an
> opportunity to block.

Interesting. You think this actually happens?

-Peter
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Peter D Bakija wrote:
> So I'm at 1 pool. My predator takes an action to call a KRC. I use a
> Special Report to untap. If I use my last pool to gain the +1 intercept
> to block the KRC, am I ousted before or after I block the action (i.e.
> I am clearly ousted by paying the 1 pool, but does the KRC get
> blocked)?
>
> Thanks,
> -Peter
>

I was under the impression you can never oust yourself?

James
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In message <12jk34mbuu9fe3d.RemoveThis@corp.supernews.com>, James Scott
<templar.RemoveThis@internode.on.net> writes:
>Peter D Bakija wrote:
>> So I'm at 1 pool. My predator takes an action to call a KRC. I use a
>> Special Report to untap. If I use my last pool to gain the +1 intercept
>> to block the KRC, am I ousted before or after I block the action (i.e.
>> I am clearly ousted by paying the 1 pool, but does the KRC get
>> blocked)?
>
>I was under the impression you can never oust yourself?

You were wrong.

You have to play to win - getting a table win if possible, maximising
VPs if not. If you cannot get any VPs, you are free to score zero VPs
in any way you choose. There are many, many threads confirming this.

Also, another player could offer to Life Boon you - which could then be
Suddenly Reversed, for example.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
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On Oct 21, 3:04 pm, "Peter D Bakija" <p....RemoveThis@lightlink.com> wrote:
> Jozxyqk wrote:
> > But I guess that means that your predator's new prey now has an
> > opportunity to block.Interesting. You think this actually happens?

Sometimes yes. Depends on the interest (read classification/standings)
the new prey have in letting another player win a VP.
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On Oct 23, 5:09 am, "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon"
<luis.pal....RemoveThis@netcabo.pt> > Sometimes yes. Depends on the interest (read
classification/standings)
> the new prey have in letting another player win a VP.

No, no. I meant "you think you actually now have a new opportunity to
block the action if someone gets ousted in the middle of the action"?

-Peter
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Peter D Bakija wrote:
> On Oct 23, 5:09 am, "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon"
> <luis.pal....DeleteThis@netcabo.pt> > Sometimes yes. Depends on the interest (read
> classification/standings)
> > the new prey have in letting another player win a VP.
>
> No, no. I meant "you think you actually now have a new opportunity to
> block the action if someone gets ousted in the middle of the action"?
>
> -Peter

No one receives a new opportunity to block. The prey in question never
gave anyone else a chance to play effects.

--
- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
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Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote:
> Peter D Bakija wrote:
> > On Oct 23, 5:09 am, "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon"
> > <luis.pal....DeleteThis@netcabo.pt> > Sometimes yes. Depends on the interest (read
> > classification/standings)
> > > the new prey have in letting another player win a VP.
> >
> > No, no. I meant "you think you actually now have a new opportunity to
> > block the action if someone gets ousted in the middle of the action"?
> >
> > -Peter
>
> No one receives a new opportunity to block. The prey in question never
> gave anyone else a chance to play effects.

Sorry to drag this up again a week later, but I'm a little confused by
this.

P1 plays KRC.
P2 burns his last pool trying to block, and is ousted.
Why can't P3 (the new prey) now attempt to block?

If P2 had explicitly *declined* to block (and still ousted himself
before the action resolved), I could perhaps understand why P3 couldn't
block (as the action's target has not changed, and the prey has
declined).

Otherwise, I would have expected that any other minion of the (current)
prey could still attempt to block. If a prey's blocking minion is
burned in the attempt, any other minion can still attempt to block --
I'd have thought in this case, P2 is ousted (and the blocking minion
disappears), P3 then becomes the prey, and may block with any remaining
minions...

Or are you saying that the roles of Predator and Prey are determined
*only* at the start of the action, and if (for whatever reason) either
of those players are ousted, their role effectively becomes "empty"
until the action is resolved?

ie, P2 is considered the prey for this action (even though he is out of
the game), so P3 may not block?

- Andrew
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"Salem" <salem_christ.geo.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:454704c4$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> morningstar.comic.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
>> Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote:
>>> Peter D Bakija wrote:
>>> > On Oct 23, 5:09 am, "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon"
>>> > <luis.pal....RemoveThis@netcabo.pt> > Sometimes yes. Depends on the interest
>>> > (read
>>> > classification/standings)
>>> > > the new prey have in letting another player win a VP.
>>> >
>>> > No, no. I meant "you think you actually now have a new opportunity to
>>> > block the action if someone gets ousted in the middle of the action"?
>>> >
>>> > -Peter
>>>
>>> No one receives a new opportunity to block. The prey in question never
>>> gave anyone else a chance to play effects.
>>
>> Sorry to drag this up again a week later, but I'm a little confused by
>> this.
>>
>> P1 plays KRC.
>> P2 burns his last pool trying to block, and is ousted.
>> Why can't P3 (the new prey) now attempt to block?
>>
>> If P2 had explicitly *declined* to block (and still ousted himself
>> before the action resolved), I could perhaps understand why P3 couldn't
>> block (as the action's target has not changed, and the prey has
>> declined).
>
> I'd say P3 could attempt to block.

I think so too. I think what Greg meant may have been that no one receives
a *new* opportunity to block - the "now I'm your prey" P3 hadn't had his
*normal* opportunity to block yet so when he gets one, it's not "new".

If P3 had explicitly declined to block before P2 was ousted, I think he
would indeed not get a "new" opportunity when P2 was ousted. But P3 won't
normally have the opportunity to explicitly decline to block (in the "other
blockers" spot) until after P2 and P0 (the predator) have both declined or
failed, and in this scenario P2 is ousted before giving up on blocking.

If P2 gave up on blocking, was *then* ousted, and P0 also didn't block, I
think Salem's line of argument is correct, that P3 can then block in the
"other blockers" spot even though she is now the prey of P1.

I guess it's possible that P2 being ousted before the action has reached
resolution actually *does* reset blocking to "start over from the top, prey
block attempts, predator block attempts, other block attempts", but it
doesn't seem necessary for the game to work as expected. LSJ?


Josh

preying mantis of the apocalypse
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Joshua Duffin wrote:
> "Salem" <salem_christ.geo DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:454704c4$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>> morningstar.comic DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
>>> Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote:
>>>> Peter D Bakija wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 23, 5:09 am, "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon"
>>>>> <luis.pal... DeleteThis @netcabo.pt> > Sometimes yes. Depends on the interest
>>>>> (read
>>>>> classification/standings)
>>>>>> the new prey have in letting another player win a VP.
>>>>> No, no. I meant "you think you actually now have a new opportunity to
>>>>> block the action if someone gets ousted in the middle of the action"?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Peter
>>>> No one receives a new opportunity to block. The prey in question never
>>>> gave anyone else a chance to play effects.
>>> Sorry to drag this up again a week later, but I'm a little confused by
>>> this.
>>>
>>> P1 plays KRC.
>>> P2 burns his last pool trying to block, and is ousted.
>>> Why can't P3 (the new prey) now attempt to block?

He can.

>>> If P2 had explicitly *declined* to block (and still ousted himself
>>> before the action resolved), I could perhaps understand why P3 couldn't
>>> block (as the action's target has not changed, and the prey has
>>> declined).
>> I'd say P3 could attempt to block.
>
> I think so too. I think what Greg meant may have been that no one receives
> a *new* opportunity to block - the "now I'm your prey" P3 hadn't had his
> *normal* opportunity to block yet so when he gets one, it's not "new".

Correct.

> If P3 had explicitly declined to block before P2 was ousted, I think he
> would indeed not get a "new" opportunity when P2 was ousted. But P3 won't
> normally have the opportunity to explicitly decline to block (in the "other
> blockers" spot) until after P2 and P0 (the predator) have both declined or
> failed, and in this scenario P2 is ousted before giving up on blocking.
>
> If P2 gave up on blocking, was *then* ousted, and P0 also didn't block, I
> think Salem's line of argument is correct, that P3 can then block in the
> "other blockers" spot even though she is now the prey of P1.

Correct.

> I guess it's possible that P2 being ousted before the action has reached
> resolution actually *does* reset blocking to "start over from the top, prey
> block attempts, predator block attempts, other block attempts", but it
> doesn't seem necessary for the game to work as expected. LSJ?

Correct. It doesn't seem necessary.

A-B-C-D-E seated around the table.

A's minion attempts an undirected action.

B (eventually) declines any (more) block attempts
E attempts a block, and somehow (DI) B ousts himself.
It's still E's window.
E eventually declines any more block attempts.
C gets a chance to block, followed by D (the "others" window -- C and D being
the other Methuselahs -- the ones who haven't had a window to block yet).
In this case, C doesn't have to cough up an Eagle's Sight or anything, since C
is the prey of the acting minion.

If B declines then E declines then C declines and then, during D's attempt to
block, B DI's himself out of the game, then (when D declines to block), C would
not get a new opportunity to block.
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morningstar.comic DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
> Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote:
>> Peter D Bakija wrote:
>> > On Oct 23, 5:09 am, "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon"
>> > <luis.pal... DeleteThis @netcabo.pt> > Sometimes yes. Depends on the interest (read
>> > classification/standings)
>> > > the new prey have in letting another player win a VP.
>> >
>> > No, no. I meant "you think you actually now have a new opportunity to
>> > block the action if someone gets ousted in the middle of the action"?
>> >
>> > -Peter
>>
>> No one receives a new opportunity to block. The prey in question never
>> gave anyone else a chance to play effects.
>
> Sorry to drag this up again a week later, but I'm a little confused by
> this.
>
> P1 plays KRC.
> P2 burns his last pool trying to block, and is ousted.
> Why can't P3 (the new prey) now attempt to block?
>
> If P2 had explicitly *declined* to block (and still ousted himself
> before the action resolved), I could perhaps understand why P3 couldn't
> block (as the action's target has not changed, and the prey has
> declined).

I'd say P3 could attempt to block.

the sequencing for block attempts is prey, then predator, then the rest
of the other players clockwise from the acting meth.

So I'd say P2 can attempt to block. Burns his last pool, is ousted. P0
(the predator) then gets to attempt to block, and if they don't block
(decline or fail), then there is the 'all other block attempts'. This is
where P3 gets to have a go, and since P3 is now the prey, they are an
eligible blocker without needing an Eagle's sight type effect (even
though, timing wise, they are in the 'all other block attempts' window).

I think, anyway.

The other option would be to allow P3 to 'carry over' the prey-block
attempt window, and continue to keep attempting to block after P2 is ousted.

I can't really see a scenario where P3 would never get a chance to
block, though.

If pred and prey were only set when you started an action, then if P2
ousted themselves trying to block, and you then ousted P3 with your KRC,
you wouldn't get the VP for P3. And we know that you DO get that VP, so
therefore P3 must become your prey.

--
salem
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/vtes/
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)
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