Orions fighting cloaked? wut?

> How can an Orion Maurader combat and capture my freighter,
And what comes that combat part, i think that was mistake by orion.
if u get MBR by combat, its always privateer fault

-Toni
 >> Stay informed about: Orions fighting cloaked? wut? 

What happened was, a full freighter was set to leave a planet. I had no
other ships there. The planet FC was ATT. Phost ran.

Next turn, Orions Maruader had fought the freighter with one xray and
captured it in orbit at the planet, not in space. All that was at the
planet was the captured freighter afterward. NO Orion ship!. A wolf pack
could not have robbed fuel, I got no message of robbery, he could not
fight a fueless ship. But what is strange is his ship was not visible
there with the freighter in orbit where he fought it! He cannot cloak
immediately after fighting in the same turn.

I do not understand. Some quirk of Phost perhaps?

sigh

Toni wrote:
>> How can an Orion Maurader combat and capture my freighter,
>>
> And what comes that combat part, i think that was mistake by orion.
> if u get MBR by combat, its always privateer fault
>
> -Toni
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Orions fighting cloaked? wut? 

Hi,

> How can an Orion Maurader combat and capture my freighter, in orbit
> around my planet with FC set to ATT, then after the capture disappear?

In my understanding the word of miracle is "cloak". A cloaked ship with
PE set, will attack enemy ships but not enemy planets. That's the same
for both, PHost and THost. So what happened is that he arrived cloaked
with PE, found your freighter, an enemy ship, fought that and cloaked
again as he didn't take sufficient damage in order to decloak.
If a ship due to damage from a ship-ship battle has to de-cloak, it can
subsequently also be attacked by the planet it orbits.

Ships that swapped sides will not fight again that turn with PHost. This
particular issue might be different for THost, but the docs and donovan
don't say what happens and I haven't played for a long time THost.

Best regards,
Ingo

--
Ingo von Borstel <newsgroups.DeleteThis@planetmaker.de>
Public Key: http://www.planetmaker.de/ingo.asc

If you need an urgent reply, replace newsgroups by vgap.
 >> Stay informed about: Orions fighting cloaked? wut? 

Rune and Jade wrote:
> How can an Orion Maurader combat and capture my freighter, in orbit
> around my planet with FC set to ATT, then after the capture disappear?
> No ship to planet battle, and my old freighter, now Orion, just sits
> there and my planet does not attack it either? I did not think even
> Orions could fight cloaked and/or end up cloaked?? A Phost game.

It's probably an artifact of how battle order works in PHost.

Your planet has a battle order value of zero thanks ATT. Therefore it
attempts to fight first. It cannot attack the freighter (because it's
yours) and it cannot attack the MBR (because it's cloaked). Thus,
nothing happens.

Next will be the MBR. He fights the freighter. Thus, the he wins the
freighter, and the freighter gets passive.

Since the planet has already "fought", it will not fight again. Since
the freighter is now passive, it will not fight the planet either.

I simplified a bit. Certain combinations of FCs would lead to different
considerations and conclusions, but to the same sequence of user-visible
events. The only thing which would make a difference is if the MBR (or
the freighter!) has a negative FC. In this case, the MBR-vs-freighter
battle would occur before the planet considers fighting, so it can
capture back.

In Tim's host, planets *always* fight after ships, so that this
capture-back you expected happens a little more often.


Stefan
 >> Stay informed about: Orions fighting cloaked? wut? 

Thanks for your explanation. I see it is a Phost thing and seems to give
even more advantage to Orions than they already have. That plus moving
thorough minefields at warp 2 is safe means it is useless playing phost
against orions. bah.

Now, that planet, that had FC NUK this turn has on of his damaged ships,
the freighter from last turn and a newly captured Troll class all in
orbit not being attacked at all but the planet. I will stick with Tims
host from now on.



Stefan Reuther wrote:
> Rune and Jade wrote:
>
>> How can an Orion Maurader combat and capture my freighter, in orbit
>> around my planet with FC set to ATT, then after the capture disappear?
>> No ship to planet battle, and my old freighter, now Orion, just sits
>> there and my planet does not attack it either? I did not think even
>> Orions could fight cloaked and/or end up cloaked?? A Phost game.
>>
>
> It's probably an artifact of how battle order works in PHost.
>
> Your planet has a battle order value of zero thanks ATT. Therefore it
> attempts to fight first. It cannot attack the freighter (because it's
> yours) and it cannot attack the MBR (because it's cloaked). Thus,
> nothing happens.
>
> Next will be the MBR. He fights the freighter. Thus, the he wins the
> freighter, and the freighter gets passive.
>
> Since the planet has already "fought", it will not fight again. Since
> the freighter is now passive, it will not fight the planet either.
>
> I simplified a bit. Certain combinations of FCs would lead to different
> considerations and conclusions, but to the same sequence of user-visible
> events. The only thing which would make a difference is if the MBR (or
> the freighter!) has a negative FC. In this case, the MBR-vs-freighter
> battle would occur before the planet considers fighting, so it can
> capture back.
>
> In Tim's host, planets *always* fight after ships, so that this
> capture-back you expected happens a little more often.
>
>
> Stefan
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Orions fighting cloaked? wut? 

Rune and Jade wrote:

> Thanks for your explanation. I see it is a Phost thing and seems to give
> even more advantage to Orions than they already have. That plus moving
> thorough minefields at warp 2 is safe means it is useless playing phost
> against orions. bah.

Nonsense. Being restricted to 4LY per turn is a high price for any race
to pay for moving safely through minefields.

I am currently crushing the Orions in two PHost/PList games, so let
everybody out there know that the balance is in fact much better than
with THost.

> Now, that planet, that had FC NUK this turn has on of his damaged ships,
> the freighter from last turn and a newly captured Troll class all in
> orbit not being attacked at all but the planet. I will stick with Tims
> host from now on.

Well, that's your loss. PHost is about 1000 times better than THost -
though actually credit should be given to Degi because it's PList that
actually makes most of the difference. PHost is merely less buggy, more
efficient, faster, more host-friendly and more logical than THost.

CC
 >> Stay informed about: Orions fighting cloaked? wut? 

* magnate <chrisc.TakeThisOut@dbass.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> PHost is about 1000 times better than THost - though actually
> credit should be given to Degi because it's PList that actually
> makes most of the difference.

Don't forget the untiring Stefan Reuther. Shiplists like PList
cannot exist without PHost.

Regards, Heiko
 >> Stay informed about: Orions fighting cloaked? wut? 

Heiko Schlenker wrote:
> * magnate <chrisc RemoveThis @dbass.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > PHost is about 1000 times better than THost - though actually
> > credit should be given to Degi because it's PList that actually
> > makes most of the difference.
>
> Don't forget the untiring Stefan Reuther. Shiplists like PList
> cannot exist without PHost.
>
> Regards, Heiko

Erm ... my last sentence (which you cut from your quote) was my
none-too-subtle nod to Stefan ....

CC
 >> Stay informed about: Orions fighting cloaked? wut? 

I also bow to the Plist. Stefan is a great programer and boon to VGAP.
It is a much better ship line up. Stefans new VCR viewer is top notch as
well. Hope everyone has it now



magnate wrote:
> Heiko Schlenker wrote:
>
>> * magnate <chrisc RemoveThis @dbass.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> PHost is about 1000 times better than THost - though actually
>>> credit should be given to Degi because it's PList that actually
>>> makes most of the difference.
>>>
>> Don't forget the untiring Stefan Reuther. Shiplists like PList
>> cannot exist without PHost.
>>
>> Regards, Heiko
>>
>
> Erm ... my last sentence (which you cut from your quote) was my
> none-too-subtle nod to Stefan ....
>
> CC
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Orions fighting cloaked? wut?