Orgyn Usefulness

In article <453de178$0$335$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, mcvmcv RemoveThis @xs4all.nl
says...
> > As I've never played against them, can someone tell me how tall the various
> > Orks are in comparison to a Guardsman? I was reading the newest WD, and
> > thought that the Ork Kommandos would be something to consider converting
> > into Ogryn, but I'm not sure if they are tall enough to be convincing. What
> > would be big enough (approx. a head and a half taller?) to use as an Ogryn?
>
> An Ork Warboss, I think. I believe an Ogryn is supposed to be 7 feet tall,
> whereas your average Ork is only 7 feet.
>
>
>
UH...<scratches heead>...<takes a gulp of coffee>...UM...

--
Jim M

In the grim darkness of the present, there is only September...
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

In article <453df6f3$0$324$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, mcvmcv RemoveThis @xs4all.nl
says...
> Ryan Elkins <relkins RemoveThis @u.washington.edu> wrote:
> > "Ryan Elkins" <relkins RemoveThis @u.washington.edu> wrote in message
> > news:eh0p0p$4qp$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> >>
> >> "Khaine" <Blah RemoveThis @blah.com> wrote in message
> >> news:GdRYg.32318$rg1.25676@dukeread01...
> >>> Are orgyn at all useful in an IG army anymore? Please discuss. I have
> >>> always had a soft spot for ogryn, but before I shell out 170 bucks a
> >>> squad I want to hear some opinions on their usefulness.
> >>
> >> Yeah, what he said. I was flipping through my IG codex before bed last
> >> night, and after reading the stat line, they look to be good
> >> dakka-magnets/CC monsters. Add that to the WD conversion of OK Ironguts
> >> to Ogryns, and I'm pretty interested in trying them out.
> >
> > As I've never played against them, can someone tell me how tall the various
> > Orks are in comparison to a Guardsman? I was reading the newest WD, and
> > thought that the Ork Kommandos would be something to consider converting
> > into Ogryn, but I'm not sure if they are tall enough to be convincing. What
> > would be big enough (approx. a head and a half taller?) to use as an Ogryn?
>
> An Ork Warboss, I think. I believe an Ogryn is supposed to be 10 feet tall,
> whereas your average Ork is only 7 feet.
>

Oh, well then, I guess if you put it THAT way...
--
Jim M

In the grim darkness of the present, there is only September...
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

"Jim M" <hnjcomics DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1fa7baa57be592f69897de@news.east.earthlink.net...
> In article <453df6f3$0$324$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, mcvmcv DeleteThis @xs4all.nl
> says...
>> Ryan Elkins <relkins DeleteThis @u.washington.edu> wrote:
>> > "Ryan Elkins" <relkins DeleteThis @u.washington.edu> wrote in message
>> > news:eh0p0p$4qp$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>> >>
>> >> "Khaine" <Blah DeleteThis @blah.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:GdRYg.32318$rg1.25676@dukeread01...
>> >>> Are orgyn at all useful in an IG army anymore? Please discuss. I
>> >>> have
>> >>> always had a soft spot for ogryn, but before I shell out 170 bucks a
>> >>> squad I want to hear some opinions on their usefulness.
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, what he said. I was flipping through my IG codex before bed last
>> >> night, and after reading the stat line, they look to be good
>> >> dakka-magnets/CC monsters. Add that to the WD conversion of OK
>> >> Ironguts
>> >> to Ogryns, and I'm pretty interested in trying them out.
>> >
>> > As I've never played against them, can someone tell me how tall the
>> > various
>> > Orks are in comparison to a Guardsman? I was reading the newest WD,
>> > and
>> > thought that the Ork Kommandos would be something to consider
>> > converting
>> > into Ogryn, but I'm not sure if they are tall enough to be convincing.
>> > What
>> > would be big enough (approx. a head and a half taller?) to use as an
>> > Ogryn?
>>
>> An Ork Warboss, I think. I believe an Ogryn is supposed to be 10 feet
>> tall,
>> whereas your average Ork is only 7 feet.
>>
>
> Oh, well then, I guess if you put it THAT way...

So Ogres are only a bit taller than Marines who are supposed to be taller
than Orks?

--
estarriol
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

In article <ehkvqt$ndm$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,
estarriol RemoveThis @estarriol.jeansNTshirt.co.uk says...
>
> "Jim M" <hnjcomics RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1fa7baa57be592f69897de@news.east.earthlink.net...
> > In article <453df6f3$0$324$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, mcvmcv RemoveThis @xs4all.nl
> > says...
> >> Ryan Elkins <relkins RemoveThis @u.washington.edu> wrote:
> >> > "Ryan Elkins" <relkins RemoveThis @u.washington.edu> wrote in message
> >> > news:eh0p0p$4qp$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Khaine" <Blah RemoveThis @blah.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:GdRYg.32318$rg1.25676@dukeread01...
> >> >>> Are orgyn at all useful in an IG army anymore? Please discuss. I
> >> >>> have
> >> >>> always had a soft spot for ogryn, but before I shell out 170 bucks a
> >> >>> squad I want to hear some opinions on their usefulness.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yeah, what he said. I was flipping through my IG codex before bed last
> >> >> night, and after reading the stat line, they look to be good
> >> >> dakka-magnets/CC monsters. Add that to the WD conversion of OK
> >> >> Ironguts
> >> >> to Ogryns, and I'm pretty interested in trying them out.
> >> >
> >> > As I've never played against them, can someone tell me how tall the
> >> > various
> >> > Orks are in comparison to a Guardsman? I was reading the newest WD,
> >> > and
> >> > thought that the Ork Kommandos would be something to consider
> >> > converting
> >> > into Ogryn, but I'm not sure if they are tall enough to be convincing.
> >> > What
> >> > would be big enough (approx. a head and a half taller?) to use as an
> >> > Ogryn?
> >>
> >> An Ork Warboss, I think. I believe an Ogryn is supposed to be 10 feet
> >> tall,
> >> whereas your average Ork is only 7 feet.
> >>
> >
> > Oh, well then, I guess if you put it THAT way...
>
> So Ogres are only a bit taller than Marines who are supposed to be taller
> than Orks?
>
>
Well I thought Marines were supposed to be around 7' which would make
them the same height as average boyz and Ogryn would be three feet
taller then them. Which would put Ogryn at just under 1-1/2 times as
tall as Marine or a bog standard Ork...
--
Jim (who thinks this thread should be called "Ogryn Uselessness") M

In the grim darkness of the present, there is only September...
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

"Jim M" <hnjcomics.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1fa7c6729c47f4ee9897df@news.east.earthlink.net...
> In article <ehkvqt$ndm$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,
> estarriol.TakeThisOut@estarriol.jeansNTshirt.co.uk says...
>>
>> "Jim M" <hnjcomics.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1fa7baa57be592f69897de@news.east.earthlink.net...
>> > In article <453df6f3$0$324$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, mcvmcv.TakeThisOut@xs4all.nl
>> > says...
>> >> Ryan Elkins <relkins.TakeThisOut@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>> >> > "Ryan Elkins" <relkins.TakeThisOut@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
>> >> > news:eh0p0p$4qp$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Khaine" <Blah.TakeThisOut@blah.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:GdRYg.32318$rg1.25676@dukeread01...
>> >> >>> Are orgyn at all useful in an IG army anymore? Please discuss. I
>> >> >>> have
>> >> >>> always had a soft spot for ogryn, but before I shell out 170 bucks
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> squad I want to hear some opinions on their usefulness.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yeah, what he said. I was flipping through my IG codex before bed
>> >> >> last
>> >> >> night, and after reading the stat line, they look to be good
>> >> >> dakka-magnets/CC monsters. Add that to the WD conversion of OK
>> >> >> Ironguts
>> >> >> to Ogryns, and I'm pretty interested in trying them out.
>> >> >
>> >> > As I've never played against them, can someone tell me how tall the
>> >> > various
>> >> > Orks are in comparison to a Guardsman? I was reading the newest WD,
>> >> > and
>> >> > thought that the Ork Kommandos would be something to consider
>> >> > converting
>> >> > into Ogryn, but I'm not sure if they are tall enough to be
>> >> > convincing.
>> >> > What
>> >> > would be big enough (approx. a head and a half taller?) to use as an
>> >> > Ogryn?
>> >>
>> >> An Ork Warboss, I think. I believe an Ogryn is supposed to be 10 feet
>> >> tall,
>> >> whereas your average Ork is only 7 feet.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Oh, well then, I guess if you put it THAT way...
>>
>> So Ogres are only a bit taller than Marines who are supposed to be taller
>> than Orks?
>>
>>
> Well I thought Marines were supposed to be around 7' which would make
> them the same height as average boyz and Ogryn would be three feet
> taller then them. Which would put Ogryn at just under 1-1/2 times as
> tall as Marine or a bog standard Ork...

I had it in my mind that Marines were 8 to 9ft supermen is all.

--
estarriol
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

Khaine <Blah.RemoveThis@blah.com> wrote:
> Helicon_One wrote:
>> John Hwang wrote:
>>> If I were redoing Ogryns:
>>>
>>> Ogryns
>>>
>>> WS4 BS2 S4 T4 W2 I3 A3 Ld6 Sv5+
>>> - No Brain, No Pain (Feel No Pain)
>>> - Stupidity (Stubborn)
>>> - Fierce (Furious Charge)
>>
>> Dropping a wound and then adding FNP seems strange here. I can see Stubborn
>> working though.
>>
>>> Unit Size: 3-10.
>>>
>>> Weapons:
>>> - Ripper Guns (R12" S4 Assault 3 Rending)
>>
>> Oh jeez. No Rending, John. Its a /shotgun/, how on earth do you justify it
>> blowing up Land Raiders and blasting through tactical dreadnought armour?
>>
>> Granted, its a shotgun with a full-auto mode, and as such bumping it to
>> Assault 4 would fit.
>>
> Well it's a shotgun with what golf ball size Shot. Although rending
> does seem like a bit much it sure should do some damage to anything not
> wearing termie armor .

Golf ball size shot is not armour piercing. Thin, long, hard bits of
heavy metal are.

I don't really see why Ogryns need to be an effective shooty unit.
Their job is not to shoot, but to charge. If they're not effective
enough against marines, give them choppas or something.

I'm happy with big standard assault 3 ripper guns. They can be assault 1
for all I care. What I want is for Ogryns to have a bit more staying
power, preferably by giving them T5. I don't think armour 4+ is a good
idea, because they're not wearing that kind of armour. They're just big,
tough, hulking figures, so it's either extra T or extra W. I think T5
is not unreasonable, because they are bigger and tougher than marines.

I think their combat effectiveness should come mostly from their staying
power, and not from extra deadly shooting or an insane number of attacks.


mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

mcv wrote on 24 Oct 2006 09:48:40 GMT:

> An Ork Warboss, I think. I believe an Ogryn is supposed to be 7 feet tall,
> whereas your average Ork is only 7 feet.

Are those Ork feet are small than Ogryn feet?

--
Dan
http://www.ageofstrife.com
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

"Jim M" <hnjcomics DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1fa7c6729c47f4ee9897df@news.east.earthlink.net...

> Jim (who thinks this thread should be called "Ogryn Uselessness") M

the misspelling the header makes me scan it as "ObGyn Usefulness" every time
i see it
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

Jim M <hnjcomics RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <453de178$0$335$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, mcvmcv RemoveThis @xs4all.nl
> says...
>> > As I've never played against them, can someone tell me how tall the various
>> > Orks are in comparison to a Guardsman? I was reading the newest WD, and
>> > thought that the Ork Kommandos would be something to consider converting
>> > into Ogryn, but I'm not sure if they are tall enough to be convincing. What
>> > would be big enough (approx. a head and a half taller?) to use as an Ogryn?
>>
>> An Ork Warboss, I think. I believe an Ogryn is supposed to be 7 feet tall,
>> whereas your average Ork is only 7 feet.
>>
> UH...<scratches heead>...<takes a gulp of coffee>...UM...

Yeah, go ahead. Mock my typo. I can take it.


mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

Doctor wrote on Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:43:15 GMT:

>
> "Jim M" <hnjcomics.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.1fa7c6729c47f4ee9897df@news.east.earthlink.net...
>
>> Jim (who thinks this thread should be called "Ogryn Uselessness") M
>
> the misspelling the header makes me scan it as "ObGyn Usefulness" every
> time i see it

I keep seeing it as "Orgy Usefulness". I guess I should see a doctor.

--
Dan
http://www.ageofstrife.com
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

In article <453e4bb9$0$334$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, mcvmcv RemoveThis @xs4all.nl
says...
> Jim M <hnjcomics RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <453de178$0$335$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, mcvmcv RemoveThis @xs4all.nl
> > says...
> >> > As I've never played against them, can someone tell me how tall the various
> >> > Orks are in comparison to a Guardsman? I was reading the newest WD, and
> >> > thought that the Ork Kommandos would be something to consider converting
> >> > into Ogryn, but I'm not sure if they are tall enough to be convincing. What
> >> > would be big enough (approx. a head and a half taller?) to use as an Ogryn?
> >>
> >> An Ork Warboss, I think. I believe an Ogryn is supposed to be 7 feet tall,
> >> whereas your average Ork is only 7 feet.
> >>
> > UH...<scratches heead>...<takes a gulp of coffee>...UM...
>
> Yeah, go ahead. Mock my typo. I can take it.

You keep making us laugh while we're reading the news group, and
you'll be spending a fair bit to replace all the monitors that have
shorted out from the spit-takes.

Myr -beaten heavily by the grammar nazis back in the day- midon

--
To recap - 40K is just like pornography - with the exception that you
won't spend hours alone in the bathroom, it won't make you go blind
and it won't give you hairy palms.

-MJB

RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org

Or...

http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

mcv wrote:
> Khaine <Blah RemoveThis @blah.com> wrote:
>> Helicon_One wrote:
>>> John Hwang wrote:

>>>> Ogryns
>>>>
>>>> WS4 BS2 S4 T4 W2 I3 A3 Ld6 Sv5+
>>>> - No Brain, No Pain (Feel No Pain)
>>>> - Stupidity (Stubborn)
>>>> - Fierce (Furious Charge)

>>>> Unit Size: 3-10.
>>>>
>>>> Weapons:
>>>> - Ripper Guns (R12" S4 Assault 3 Rending)

> Their job is not to shoot, but to charge. If they're not effective
> enough against marines, give them choppas or something.

Yeah, I gave that option, too.

> What I want is for Ogryns to have a bit more staying
> power, preferably by giving them T5.

T4 with FNP is just as good as T5.

> I don't think armour 4+ is a good
> idea, because they're not wearing that kind of armour.

Agreed.

> They're just big, tough, hulking figures, so it's either extra T
> or extra W.

What do you have against Feel No Pain?

> I think T5 is not unreasonable, because they are bigger
> and tougher than marines.

I agree they are bigger, but not that they are tougher.

> I think their combat effectiveness should come mostly
> from their staying power, and not from extra deadly
> shooting or an insane number of attacks.

The thing is, Ogryns are pretty expensive compared to anything else in
the IG army list. So they kind of need to earn their points back when
they finally do get to HtH.

--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

John Hwang <JohnHwangCSI.TakeThisOut@cs.com.no.com> wrote:
> mcv wrote:
>> Khaine <Blah.TakeThisOut@blah.com> wrote:
>>> Helicon_One wrote:
>>>> John Hwang wrote:
>
>>>>> Ogryns
>>>>>
>>>>> WS4 BS2 S4 T4 W2 I3 A3 Ld6 Sv5+
>>>>> - No Brain, No Pain (Feel No Pain)
>>>>> - Stupidity (Stubborn)
>>>>> - Fierce (Furious Charge)
>
>
>> What I want is for Ogryns to have a bit more staying
>> power, preferably by giving them T5.
>
> T4 with FNP is just as good as T5.
>
>> They're just big, tough, hulking figures, so it's either extra T
>> or extra W.
>
> What do you have against Feel No Pain?

Nothing specifically, it's just that I'm not quite sure what it does.
If FNP is the same as T5, why not just use T5?

>> I think T5 is not unreasonable, because they are bigger
> > and tougher than marines.
>
> I agree they are bigger, but not that they are tougher.

That might be an argument for an extra W instead of extra T.

>> I think their combat effectiveness should come mostly
>> from their staying power, and not from extra deadly
>> shooting or an insane number of attacks.
>
> The thing is, Ogryns are pretty expensive compared to anything else in
> the IG army list. So they kind of need to earn their points back when
> they finally do get to HtH.

I agree, but in a shooty army, just slowing the enemy's combat monsters
down is allready earning points back. Ogryns shouldn't be the backbone
of an IG army, they should be something that saves your guardsmen's ass
from otherwise almost certain doom.


mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness