Orgyn Usefulness

Ryan Elkins wrote:
> "Khaine" <Blah.TakeThisOut@blah.com> wrote in message
> news:GdRYg.32318$rg1.25676@dukeread01...
> > Are orgyn at all useful in an IG army anymore?
>
> Yeah, what he said.

Short answer: no.

Longer answer: If you mostly play Orks or gaunt heavy nids, and you
want a countercharge unit but don't like conscripts or Kroot
Mercenaries, Ogryn can be useful.

Over all, Ogryn have two main problems: not very hitty, and not very
tough. They have a high strength but only 2 attacks per, and no access
to power weapons. they have low armor, and can be insta killed by krak
missiles and power fists. Most of the times I've used Ogryn I've
charged in with them, killed a Marine or two, drew a combat or two, and
then finally lost and were overrun.

they also suffer from competion for their role as countercharge units.
Conscripts offer a lot of wounds per point, and can offer a lot of
attacks on the countercharge. Kroot are punchy and can take an
Eviscerator. Grey Knights are fearless and have potent shooting.
rough Riders have no staying power, but great charge range and I5, S5
power weapons. I'd recommend all of these over Ogryn.

Steve Olk
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

In article <1161040241.400141.23440.RemoveThis@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
polonius42.RemoveThis@gmail.com says...
>
> Ryan Elkins wrote:
> > "Khaine" <Blah.RemoveThis@blah.com> wrote in message
> > news:GdRYg.32318$rg1.25676@dukeread01...
> > > Are orgyn at all useful in an IG army anymore?
> >
> > Yeah, what he said.
>
> Short answer: no.
>
> Longer answer: If you mostly play Orks or gaunt heavy nids, and you
> want a countercharge unit but don't like conscripts or Kroot
> Mercenaries, Ogryn can be useful.
>
> Over all, Ogryn have two main problems: not very hitty, and not very
> tough. They have a high strength but only 2 attacks per, and no access
> to power weapons. they have low armor, and can be insta killed by krak
> missiles and power fists. Most of the times I've used Ogryn I've
> charged in with them, killed a Marine or two, drew a combat or two, and
> then finally lost and were overrun.
>
> they also suffer from competion for their role as countercharge units.
> Conscripts offer a lot of wounds per point, and can offer a lot of
> attacks on the countercharge. Kroot are punchy and can take an
> Eviscerator. Grey Knights are fearless and have potent shooting.
> rough Riders have no staying power, but great charge range and I5, S5
> power weapons. I'd recommend all of these over Ogryn.
>
> Steve Olk
>
As if the $170 price tag for one unit of 'ok' sculpted RT era
minis wasn't answer enough. If Khaine is really wanting a unit of
Ogryn, buy some of the plastics from WFB and convert them. I saw a unit
of superb conversions by a guy out of Poland who regularly posts his
stuff on Ebay. I'm certain I snagged copies of the auction pics if
needed as they were truly kick butt conversions. As for the Ogyrn stats
- they really need either another wound, +1 T or both just to increase
their staying power in HTH.

Myr



--
"I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."

-- Moramarth

RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org

Or...

http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

Khaine wrote:
> Are orgyn at all useful in an IG army anymore?

The concept and ideas are good. The implementation is poor, both in
rules and in models. The IG can really use a HtH / close-support unit,
and Ogryns should fit the bill nicely.

If I were redoing Ogryns:

Ogryns

WS4 BS2 S4 T4 W2 I3 A3 Ld6 Sv5+
- No Brain, No Pain (Feel No Pain)
- Stupidity (Stubborn)
- Fierce (Furious Charge)

Unit Size: 3-10.

Weapons:
- Ripper Guns (R12" S4 Assault 3 Rending)
- Gutrippers (+1S +1A Heavy)

Transport: Chimera (Ogryns count as 2 models)

The current "Dark in Dere" rule restriction is lifted, because Ogryns
don't need penalties.


IG should be encouraged to add balance against their excellent
long-ranged shooting. This would allow IG to field fightier forces. 3
units of 6 Ogryns in Chimeras backed by 3 units of Rough Riders would be
kinda scary / cool, IMO.


--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

"John Hwang" <JohnHwangCSI.DeleteThis@cs.com.no.com> wrote in message
news:Xs0Zg.5038$NK5.1209@trnddc08...
Snip>>

"> Kroot are punchy and can take an Eviscerator.

These are hands down, the best choice for IG. They take unused Troops
slots, have lots of models, shoot decently, and fight very well. Good
stuff."

Where can I find the rules for taking Kroot as allies for IG? And would it
be tourney-legal to include them, or is it a variant that needs opponent
o.k.?


drgrbek
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

Steve Olk <polonius42.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Longer answer: If you mostly play Orks or gaunt heavy nids, and you
> want a countercharge unit but don't like conscripts or Kroot
> Mercenaries, Ogryn can be useful.
>
> Over all, Ogryn have two main problems: not very hitty, and not very
> tough. They have a high strength but only 2 attacks per, and no access
> to power weapons. they have low armor, and can be insta killed by krak
> missiles and power fists.

I think Ogryns really should have T5. T4 is just too vulnerable for a
high cost unit. So either cheaper or T5. With T5, I think Ogryns have
enough staying power to be pretty effective.

> Most of the times I've used Ogryn I've
> charged in with them, killed a Marine or two, drew a combat or two, and
> then finally lost and were overrun.

Slowing down assaulty marines can also be worth something, ofcourse.


mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

Ryan wrote on Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:18:41 -0700:

>
> "John Hwang" <JohnHwangCSI.DeleteThis@cs.com.no.com> wrote in message news:Xs0Zg.5038$NK5.1209@trnddc08...
Snip>>>
> "> Kroot are punchy and can take an Eviscerator.
>
> These are hands down, the best choice for IG. They take unused Troops
> slots, have lots of models, shoot decently, and fight very well. Good
> stuff."
>
> Where can I find the rules for taking Kroot as allies for IG? And would it
> be tourney-legal to include them, or is it a variant that needs opponent
> o.k.?
>

http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/kroot%2Dmercenaries/

They are Chapter Approved, so normally require opponents permission.
Tournament legality is subjective - it depends on the tournament.

--
Dan
http://www.ageofstrife.com
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

"Spack" <news.RemoveThis@worldofspack.com> wrote in message
news:4pkap9Fje2e5U1@individual.net...
> Ryan wrote on Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:18:41 -0700:
>
>>
>> "John Hwang" <JohnHwangCSI.RemoveThis@cs.com.no.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xs0Zg.5038$NK5.1209@trnddc08...
> Snip>>>
>> "> Kroot are punchy and can take an Eviscerator.
>>
>> These are hands down, the best choice for IG. They take unused Troops
>> slots, have lots of models, shoot decently, and fight very well. Good
>> stuff."
>>
>> Where can I find the rules for taking Kroot as allies for IG? And would
>> it
>> be tourney-legal to include them, or is it a variant that needs opponent
>> o.k.?
>>
>
> http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/kroot%2Dmercenaries/
>
> They are Chapter Approved, so normally require opponents permission.
> Tournament legality is subjective - it depends on the tournament.
>
> --
> Dan
> http://www.ageofstrife.com

Thanks!

drgrbek
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Ryan Elkins said

> Yeah, what he said. I was flipping through my IG codex before bed last
> night,

Back in my day we used to make the beast with two backs or just think about
it. What you young fellas get up to these days never ceases to amaze me.

--
Rob Singers
RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
Foemina Erit Ruina Tua
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

>they also suffer from competion for their role as countercharge units.
>Conscripts offer a lot of wounds per point, and can offer a lot of
>attacks on the countercharge. Kroot are punchy and can take an
>Eviscerator. Grey Knights are fearless and have potent shooting.
>rough Riders have no staying power, but great charge range and I5, S5
>power weapons. I'd recommend all of these over Ogryn.

Speaking of conscripts, my buddy's Nid 6 Carnifex army, actually got
wiped out from 40 conscripts hitting his flank. He had never seen such
a thing and was taken apart.
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

Khaine wrote on Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:39:14 -0500:

> Are orgyn at all useful in an IG army anymore? Please discuss. I have
> always had a soft spot for ogryn, but before I shell out 170 bucks a squad
> I want to hear some opinions on their usefulness.

I like them. I got 6 ogryns on eBay for less than the cost of 2 at RRP, it's
well worth shopping around. In each game I've used them in they've held
their own, surprising the enemy. First game I used them in they were
assaulted by a squad of 10 DE Wyches who inflicted 3 wounds - my opponent
was more than a little shocked when I took off just 1 ogryn, and then
proceeded to kill 5 Wyches and the rest fell back, then in my turn got shot
to pieces with the ripper guns. I've even taken out a squad of Grey Knights
with them, although that was probably down to luck more than anything else.
Whenever I play my infantry based IG army I take a squad of Ogryns in a
chimera, drive it forward and pop smoke, disembarking the Ogryns behind it
as cover, and then shooting and assaulting next turn if the enemy doesn't
assault me first.

--
Dan
http://www.ageofstrife.com
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

Spack wrote:
> "Khaine" <Blah.TakeThisOut@blah.com> wrote in message
> news:_dNZg.32786$rg1.21884@dukeread01...
>> This is a bit off topic in my own post, but What do you all use for fast
>> attack choices. I was thinking about using mass sentinels for some
>> mobility and punching power. I like hell hounds, but think they would
>> probably have limited uses in my army. In a big battle would a 9 strong
>> sentinel force be overboard? I know they are relatively squishy, but if
>> armed correctly and assuming I get first go at whatever I am fighting will
>> they be able to make back their point cost? I also like the idea of being
>> able to field 9 extra las cannons against those tough opponents, or being
>> able to "downgrade" to auto cannons or flamers against other less armored
>> foes.
>>
>> I just don't see any other FA choice that appeals to me at all.
>
> I tend to take a Hellhound or two (they always seem to make their points
> back, especially against orks or nids), and a unit of Sentinels.
> Occassionally I'll take rough riders, but they keep dying on me before they
> get to do anything. Don't forget you can always take a unit of Sentinels
> attached to your command squad rather than tying up a fast attack slot - or
> you could use that option to take a total of 12 Sentinels, but that's
> probably overkill. I've got 6 Sentinels myself - 3 Armageddon pattern
> (although one of them has an autocannon rather than lascannon), 1 FW Drop
> with heavy bolter, 1 with multimelta (standard sentinel with FW spare
> weapon), and the other I haven't decided yet, I guess I'll probably add it
> to the drop unit for when I take my Elysian D-99 list (using Cadian models
> though). With the drop sentinels I still have the multilasers swappable
> should I need to field them as a normal squadron though.
>

I'm thinking of using all Las-Cannons and I like the idea of adding 9/12
heavy hitting weapons to my IG army. Truth be known I wish that
sentinels and for that matter heavy weapon squads had an option to use
plasma cannons. I REALLY want to use an all plasma weapon themed army
with the cadian models with the replacement heads from Forgeworld and a
few executioners. I think it would be a very slick looking themed
force, but alas no plasma cannons for the good old IG.
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

John Hwang wrote:
> If I were redoing Ogryns:
>
> Ogryns
>
> WS4 BS2 S4 T4 W2 I3 A3 Ld6 Sv5+
> - No Brain, No Pain (Feel No Pain)
> - Stupidity (Stubborn)
> - Fierce (Furious Charge)

Dropping a wound and then adding FNP seems strange here. I can see Stubborn
working though.

> Unit Size: 3-10.
>
> Weapons:
> - Ripper Guns (R12" S4 Assault 3 Rending)

Oh jeez. No Rending, John. Its a /shotgun/, how on earth do you justify it
blowing up Land Raiders and blasting through tactical dreadnought armour?

Granted, its a shotgun with a full-auto mode, and as such bumping it to
Assault 4 would fit.

> - Gutrippers (+1S +1A Heavy)

Again, why drop a point of strength from the profile and then just give it
back on their weapons? It feels like fiddling for the sake of fiddling. Let
the Ripper Gun count as a HCCW in combat, leave them at S5 (or even bump
them to 6) and that's all they need.

>
> Transport: Chimera (Ogryns count as 2 models)
>
> The current "Dark in Dere" rule restriction is lifted, because Ogryns
> don't need penalties.

Fine.

Tim
--
----------------
I can see why they've outlawed firearms in the UK. People like you wouldn't
have any toes left.
Myrmidon - Usenet out-take

If you want to reply by email, replace the asterisks with underscores.
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness 

Helicon_One wrote:
> John Hwang wrote:
>> If I were redoing Ogryns:
>>
>> Ogryns
>>
>> WS4 BS2 S4 T4 W2 I3 A3 Ld6 Sv5+
>> - No Brain, No Pain (Feel No Pain)
>> - Stupidity (Stubborn)
>> - Fierce (Furious Charge)
>
> Dropping a wound and then adding FNP seems strange here. I can see Stubborn
> working though.
>
>> Unit Size: 3-10.
>>
>> Weapons:
>> - Ripper Guns (R12" S4 Assault 3 Rending)
>
> Oh jeez. No Rending, John. Its a /shotgun/, how on earth do you justify it
> blowing up Land Raiders and blasting through tactical dreadnought armour?
>
> Granted, its a shotgun with a full-auto mode, and as such bumping it to
> Assault 4 would fit.
>
Well it's a shotgun with what golf ball size Shot. Although rending
does seem like a bit much it sure should do some damage to anything not
wearing termie armor .

>> - Gutrippers (+1S +1A Heavy)
>
> Again, why drop a point of strength from the profile and then just give it
> back on their weapons? It feels like fiddling for the sake of fiddling. Let
> the Ripper Gun count as a HCCW in combat, leave them at S5 (or even bump
> them to 6) and that's all they need.
>
>> Transport: Chimera (Ogryns count as 2 models)
>>
>> The current "Dark in Dere" rule restriction is lifted, because Ogryns
>> don't need penalties.
>
> Fine.
>
> Tim
 >> Stay informed about: Orgyn Usefulness