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sparks

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Since: Oct 19, 2006
Posts: 64



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:05 pm
Post subject: Noob needs help and guidance
Archived from groups: alt>games>warcraft (more info?)

Complete noob to the game.
Dumb little alliance warlock.
I just made level 70.
I was in a guild from 25-40 then it fell apart.
I have been solo almost the entire game and been in 2 instances.
DM and Uldaman.

I talked to some guilds that are big time players and NONE of them
want anything to do with me...of course they are big time raiding
guilds and I understand their points. IF you don't have keys and raid
gear you are junk player..TRUE

What do i need to do to get going...I have tailoring at 340, some
people told me to get it to 375 and make some gear, that shows that
you are trying. What gear?

H E L P

I don't have a clue what to do.

thank you for any help with this

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Darin Johnson

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Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 609



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:05 pm
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On Aug 27, 7:09 am, sparks <jstal... RemoveThis @swbell.net> wrote:
> Complete noob to the game.
> Dumb little alliance warlock.
> I just made level 70.

If you're at 70, you're not a complete noob. You may
be unclear on some things though.

> I talked to some guilds that are big time players and NONE of them
> want anything to do with me...

Big time players want nothing to do with anybody who
isn't also a big time player. Ignore them.

> I don't have a clue what to do.

If you had fun getting to level 70, then start a new
character with a new class and do it again. This time
do a few more instances or visit places you haven't
quested in before.

--
Darin Johnson

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John Gordon

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Since: Nov 19, 2004
Posts: 1359



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:05 pm
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In <4gm5d3hcm6hcddqls3aioe49dosl7aub80 RemoveThis @4ax.com> sparks <jstalnak RemoveThis @swbell.net> writes:

> What do i need to do to get going...I have tailoring at 340, some
> people told me to get it to 375 and make some gear, that shows that
> you are trying. What gear?

The gear they're talking about is the Frozen Shadoweave set. You can learn
it from the specialized Shadoweave tailoring trainer in Lower City in
Shattrath.

There are also some Spellstrike patterns that drop in a few instances,
they are very good also.

The first thing you should do is start running instances. High-end guilds
are all about raiding, and nearly all raids happen inside instances. You
need to get comfortable inside instances. You won't need to bother with the
old-world instances you missed, but you should run the new ones a lot.

--
John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon RemoveThis @panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
-- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"
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Orion Ryder

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Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 197



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Noob needs help and guidance [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Aug 27, 2:04 pm, Darin Johnson <da....RemoveThis@usa.net> wrote:
> On Aug 27, 7:09 am, sparks <jstal....RemoveThis@swbell.net> wrote:
>
> > Complete noob to the game.
> > Dumb little alliance warlock.
> > I just made level 70.
>
> If you're at 70, you're not a complete noob. You may
> be unclear on some things though.
>
> > I talked to some guilds that are big time players and NONE of them
> > want anything to do with me...
>
> Big time players want nothing to do with anybody who
> isn't also a big time player. Ignore them.
>
> > I don't have a clue what to do.
>
> If you had fun getting to level 70, then start a new
> character with a new class and do it again. This time
> do a few more instances or visit places you haven't
> quested in before.
>
> --
> Darin Johnson

To add to this advice (meant for original poster)

I think Darin means for you to run the dungeons with your new toon so
you can learn what to do in dungeons. You have experienced the fun of
getting to 70, now experience the awe and mystery that reaches from
the innner mind to the Outer Limits, er I mean from the Old World
Dungeons to the Outland Dungeons.

As wd mentioend a few posts up, knowing what to do is very key.
Dungeons require many different methods of victory than the usual
adventuring does. Sometimes it requries perfection of some sort.
Granted if things are not perfect for a specific pack of mobs and
something goes wrong it is possbile that good players can improvise
due to knowing what everybody's role then becomes on that spur of the
moment.

The further you go on the raid chain the more likely the battles will
require what might amount to a perfect or near perfect coreographed
"dance" or synchronized "swim" on the part of the group.

The ability to carry out those exact steps are developed as one
"practices" in the normal dungeons and even as one moves up through
level 70s and heroics.

Example: One mage does not retreat from second boss in Botanica at the
proper time - result: wipe for the entire party.

Example: warlock fails to cast curse of recklessness on fleeing mob
result: mob brings back 4 more adds and you guessed it - Wipe Out!

Good Luck!

Orion
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Ieyasu

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Since: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 85



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:34 pm
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"sparks" <jstalnak RemoveThis @swbell.net> wrote in message
news:4gm5d3hcm6hcddqls3aioe49dosl7aub80@4ax.com...
> Complete noob to the game.
> Dumb little alliance warlock.
> I just made level 70.
> I was in a guild from 25-40 then it fell apart.
> I have been solo almost the entire game and been in 2 instances.
> DM and Uldaman.
>
> I talked to some guilds that are big time players and NONE of them
> want anything to do with me...of course they are big time raiding
> guilds and I understand their points. IF you don't have keys and raid
> gear you are junk player..TRUE
>
> What do i need to do to get going...I have tailoring at 340, some
> people told me to get it to 375 and make some gear, that shows that
> you are trying. What gear?
>

This is for your Frozen Shadoweave items
http://thottbot.com/?set=553

This quest starts the Karazhan attunement. Not only does being attuned
"look good" to end-game guilds, the quest line also requires you to visit 4
instances so there is potential to upgrade some of your gear while
completing it.
http://www.thottbot.com/q9824

With the exception of shaman, warlock is the least played alliance class on
the realm I play on. My guild recently acquired a 3rd level 70 warlock and
we've been around for almost 2 years now.
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wd

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Since: Dec 10, 2006
Posts: 135



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:57 pm
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"sparks" <jstalnak DeleteThis @swbell.net> wrote in message
news:4gm5d3hcm6hcddqls3aioe49dosl7aub80@4ax.com...
> Complete noob to the game.
> Dumb little alliance warlock.
> I just made level 70.
> I was in a guild from 25-40 then it fell apart.
> I have been solo almost the entire game and been in 2 instances.
> DM and Uldaman.
>
> I talked to some guilds that are big time players and NONE of them
> want anything to do with me...of course they are big time raiding
> guilds and I understand their points. IF you don't have keys and raid
> gear you are junk player..TRUE
>
> What do i need to do to get going...I have tailoring at 340, some
> people told me to get it to 375 and make some gear, that shows that
> you are trying. What gear?
>
> H E L P
>
> I don't have a clue what to do.
>
> thank you for any help with this

If you want to raid you need the attunements, the gear, and the know how.

The gear is the easiest part. The suggestion to get tailoring to 375 is due
to the fact that high end tailors can make some really nice epic gear. I
believe another post already covered this. Also running the level 70
instances is another great way to get gear. These would be in no particular
order:

Hellfire Peninsula:
The Shattered Halls in Hellfire Citadel

Terokkar Forest:
Shadow Labyrinths in Auchindoun (Terokkar Forest)

Zangarmarsh:
The Steamvault in Coilfang Reservoir

Netherstorm (All in Tempest Keep):
The Mechanar
The Botanica
The Arcatraz

Caverns of Time (Tanaris in Kalimdor):
Opening of the Dark Portal aka Black Morass (Requires completing the Escape
From Durnholde aka Old Hillsbrad first)

You also need to run these instances for reputation in order to get your
heroic keys. You need to be revered with the faction selling the key in
order to buy it. It doesn't take nearly as long as you would think to hit
revered. In your case you need to be revered with Honor Hold for the
Hellfire Citadel key, Cenarion Expedition for Coilfang, Shat'tar for Tempest
Keep, and Lower City for Auchindoun.

Also getting attuned to Karazhan (the first 70 raid) is rather easy. Start
by going to Karazhan in Deadwind Pass. There will be some wizards standing
outside of the entrance. They will give you the quests to start the
attunement. The first few involve stuff directly around Karazhan. After
that they will send you back to Shattrath, and then you have to gather
pieces of the key. It's a good idea to get these quests as soon as possible
as the key parts are in the level 70 instances. The key parts are in the
Steamvaults, Shadow Labyrinths, and Arcatraz. The attunement chain ends by
requiring you to complete the Black Morass. Then you will be attuned to
Karazhan. In order to be effective in Karazhan you'll want to be almost
completely in blue gear. A few greens won't matter, but they won't help
much either. Any epics you can craft with your tailoring will help greatly.

The biggest hurdle you have to overcome is knowing what to do. Having only
been to two instances, you have your work cut out for you. I'm not sure if
you meant Deadmines or Dire Maul by DM. Either way, you lack experience
using your skills in an instance. I'm by no means a warlock expert, but
I've played with a few good ones. Assuming you're not a demonology spec (in
which case I haven't a clue what to tell you) you'll want to be using your
imp or succubus in instances. The succubus provides the group with crowd
control, and the imp gives the group a stamina buff. In instances, keep
your pet on passive at all times! (very very very important). Other than
that, the lock people are going to have to give you strategy.
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JohnR

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Since: Aug 07, 2005
Posts: 849



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:57 pm
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"sparks" <jstalnak.TakeThisOut@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:4gm5d3hcm6hcddqls3aioe49dosl7aub80@4ax.com...
> Complete noob to the game.
> Dumb little alliance warlock.
> I just made level 70.
> I was in a guild from 25-40 then it fell apart.
> I have been solo almost the entire game and been in 2 instances.
> DM and Uldaman.
>
>
> H E L P
>
> I don't have a clue what to do.
>
> thank you for any help with this
>
Spend an unhealthy amount of time grinding materials for trade skills and
crafted gear, spend an unhealthy amount of time in normal instances grinding
rare quality gear so that you can then join a raiding guild and spend an
unhealthy amount of time grinding for phat epic gear in raid instances.
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Ieyasu

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Since: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 85



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:57 pm
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"JohnR" <repro007 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46d30ff6$0$5158$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>
> Spend an unhealthy amount of time grinding materials for trade skills and
> crafted gear, spend an unhealthy amount of time in normal instances
> grinding rare quality gear so that you can then join a raiding guild and
> spend an unhealthy amount of time grinding for phat epic gear in raid
> instances.
You forgot to say that the gear will be replaced by level 70+ greens within
a day or two of the next expansion coming out.
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JohnR

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Since: Aug 07, 2005
Posts: 849



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:01 pm
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"Darin Johnson" <darin.TakeThisOut@usa.net> wrote in message
news:1188237879.277770.252410@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 27, 7:09 am, sparks <jstal....TakeThisOut@swbell.net> wrote:
>> Complete noob to the game.
>> Dumb little alliance warlock.
>> I just made level 70.
>
> If you're at 70, you're not a complete noob. You may
> be unclear on some things though.
>
>> I talked to some guilds that are big time players and NONE of them
>> want anything to do with me...
>
> Big time players want nothing to do with anybody who
> isn't also a big time player. Ignore them.
>
>> I don't have a clue what to do.
>
> If you had fun getting to level 70, then start a new
> character with a new class and do it again. This time
> do a few more instances or visit places you haven't
> quested in before.
>
Wise words indeed.
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PV

External


Since: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4030



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:02 pm
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sparks <jstalnak DeleteThis @swbell.net> writes:
>Complete noob to the game.

Un-noob yourself - there are lots of resources out there.

>I have been solo almost the entire game and been in 2 instances.
>DM and Uldaman.

If you want to do anything other than PvP (and not really even that), you
need to correct that problem.

>I talked to some guilds that are big time players and NONE of them
>want anything to do with me...of course they are big time raiding
>guilds and I understand their points. IF you don't have keys and raid
>gear you are junk player..TRUE

The latter is total bollocks - you don't need raid gear to raid (at least
Karazhan and Gruuls, provided you have good non-raid gear). If you don't
have any keys yet, why are you even bothering applying to a 'big time
player' guild? Join a casual or leveling guild. The days of taking a
greenie raiding ended when the 40 mans did.

>What do i need to do to get going...I have tailoring at 340, some
>people told me to get it to 375 and make some gear, that shows that
>you are trying. What gear?

Frozen shadoweave or spellfire, depending on your spec. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
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PV

External


Since: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4030



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:56 pm
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"Ieyasu" <nitesbane.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> writes:
>You forgot to say that the gear will be replaced by level 70+ greens within
>a day or two of the next expansion coming out.

Not necessarily, since the loot inflation supposedly won't be happening
again. But even if it does, who cares? *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
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Hans Escher

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Since: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 7



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:58 pm
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sparks
> Complete noob to the game.
> Dumb little alliance warlock.
> I just made level 70.
> I was in a guild from 25-40 then it fell apart.
> I have been solo almost the entire game and been in 2 instances.
> DM and Uldaman.
>
> I talked to some guilds that are big time players and NONE of them
> want anything to do with me...of course they are big time raiding
> guilds and I understand their points. IF you don't have keys and raid
> gear you are junk player..TRUE
>
> What do i need to do to get going...I have tailoring at 340, some
> people told me to get it to 375 and make some gear, that shows that
> you are trying. What gear?
>
> H E L P
>
> I don't have a clue what to do.
>
> thank you for any help with this

Edit afterwards: While typing I went a bit out of my way and it might
be a bit messy. Still I think it has enough points....



While starting towards creating whole Shadow Weave is a good thing
to do on the way, the most important thing is to know if and how you
want to spend the rest of your level 70.

[A] about five mans

The question for yourself is, why didn't you group much 1-70?
Let me guess the answer: it is such a hassle to find fun groups
and you have not that much need for chatter.
(getting powered by a level 60/70 tru an instance isn't fun,
trying to do it with a group where everyone is under the advised
level except you isn't that appealing either)

Now will this be better for the level 70 five man instances?
Not that much... well... no level troubles... but finding takes time.
Note: if you play a warrior, druid, priest or paladin you have
hardly problems, (resto)shamans and mages(polymorph) have
it easier too. Warlocks are at the bottom for 5 mans.

Make sure to have lots of other stuff to do while waiting for
groups. You will probably need to work hard with your Succubus
to try to look a bit like a mage.

Five mans cannot be completely evaded if you want to get
somewhere else however. Make sure to complete at least
all the dungeon quests.

[B] organised PvP?

I am not experienced in this, but it might be an option to think
about.

[C] raiding.

Does raiding sound fun? Lets talk about raiding a bit...

In other to be able to raid you will need quite a lot of work.
You should ask yourself wether it will be worth it...

[1] The first question for you should be: do you like doing things
on fixed times, are you organized?

Raiding will mean playing a lot with a generally very stable group of
players. Generally you will have to signup days before a raid and you
are expected to come if you sign, most guilds may require you to be
present on a certain minimum of days per week.

That doesn't need to be a problem if you are organized anyway.

Some less experienced or lazy guilds may just bluntly ask you to play
7 evenings a week. Experienced guilds won't expect that.
However, to be able to raid they will need to get 10 or 25 players
together with good balance of classes and thats quite a hard job,
every guild will need a big majority of players it can rely on to be present
on a certain days.

For me raiding has an immense benefit... no more looking for group,
oh I hate waiting hours to get anywhere and then being confronted
with people that suddenly don't have time anymore.

Raiding gives certainty and quality play. The social aspect differs
a lot in guilds, but having 10-25 players together can mean a lot of
chatter and jokes, being together often will will let you know people,
can build friendships.

If you are a bit timid (since you haven't grouped from 1-70) raiding
might be an easier way to get to know people!

In raids (esp 25 mans) you will much more often meet people of
the same class, which will be a big eye opener. You will learn lots
more of your class.



[2] About the play while raiding.

Just going for a few epics that will be bypassed in four or so month
when WoLK might comes shouldn't be the main motivation....
Is raiding a fun way to play?


Blizzards design is changed a bit from the Molten Core/BWL days,
raid instances are very challenging now and often players need to
work hard to get bosses down in time and every player must know
the tactics, which is quite a study.
Doing the boss in time also requires that gear needs to be very good.

On the positive side, it can feel as a big accomplishment to kill a new
boss, or even to have completed a critical job correctly
(doing only dps has less of that feeling, unless you are near the top,
which is doable for a warlock Smile )

Some bosses require a carefull positioning and moving of all players,
and since everyone is needed to kill the boss everyone becomes
critical...
Shade of Aran: depending on the action the boss does it is either
important not to move at all, or to move away from the center to the
side asap, or to evade a blizzard, for the latter moving *to* the center
is generally easiest.
Netherspite: alternatingly you need to move away from the boss or
close to it, during the latter, generally 6 players will be sheduled to
stand such that they intercept one of the three laserlike beams for
a period of time.
Prince Malchezar: You have to evade the AoE from infernals, during
the fight it gets tighter and tighter.

Warlocks have a couple of critical jobs
- Shade of aran: Banishing and fearing adds.
- Matheridon: Keeping curse of exhaustion up (30 sec duration!) on 5 mobs
and fearing and banishing adds. Maybe a job to click on cubes on a very
specific time. Note: this is a 25 man, so you are typically not the only
warlock
on this duty.

Warlocks need to enslave and/or banish at Maulgar (Gruuls lair) and
maybe tank with that enslaved pet.

A warlock with very high fire resistance gear can tank leotheras the
blind (Serpent Shrine Cavern) casting searing pain, while soullinked
with his felhunter. A similar but less gear critical tanking can be asked
during the Kaelthas Sunstrider fight (End boss The Eye)

In our guild my warlock helps a hunter kite Striders at lady vash,
using curse of exhaustion (12 sec duration). If its not up from about
8 seconds its a wipe)

Do you like learning such encounters?
Are you willing to do such things 10+ times (once a week)?
Note: on the positive lots of guilds become visibly better every week
and that feels nice. (Up to a point the guild becomes more and more
bored, hopefully the guild is smart enough to stop doing that instance)

[3] On the negative side,

it takes lots of time to get the gear needed and for every new level of
bosses (karazhan/gruul-magtheridon/ssc-the eye/hyjal-black temple)
more is required, including new dropped gear, new enchants, new gems.

You will typically need to farm materials for flasks or elixirs of major
shadow power for every raid and a couple of healing potions.
Some shard farming is expected too. Note: if you were a priest, paladin,
shaman, mage or healing druid much much more is expected (some say:
a mana potion every time the cooldown is up).

Getting 375 tailoring and full shadowweave will cost a lot of money,
lot of farming of motes of shadow and some 3600 netherweave.

[4] Choosing the guild

I would suggest trying a guild thats only doing Karazhan / Gruul
they can be much more forgiving than a guild doing serpent shrine cavern/
the eye (not to speak of hyjal/black temple) and people in those guilds are
probably less bored with the lower stuff.
In addition kills will feel more like your own achievements.

Note that even with good preparation will need to give you quite a bit
equipment (from boss drops) before you will be on the level needed for
the next boss they want to do.
This will mean that they need to do the lesser instances longer and thats
getting boring after 15+ times....

What I mean... rejection is not pure arrogance.
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sparks

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Since: Oct 19, 2006
Posts: 64



(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:58 am
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Lots of great info here guys and a new way of looking at things.
I guess what surprised me at first was warlocks are on the bottom or
close to the bottom of the need list...After thinking about it I can
understand that.

No big time guild wants a noob...thats not an insult that just makes
since to me. Trust me I understand this one as well.

At first I thought ok there must be some since to this dungeon/raid
stuff.

Get a group and go in like in the original game. NO now you have to go
in order and keyed etc.....damn thats complicated, again bliz wants
you to spend as much time and money to get from point A to point B.

(you know if they had faith in their game it wouldn't be set up like
this)
take tailoring...when I see maybe 1 miss in 10 on a yellow
recipe...then when its at 299 or 349 oh that same yellow takes 10-15
times to pop....that is BULLSHIT
just a way to make the game longer.

people told me that the only reason to do away with 40 mans was
because groups were easy to get.....etc
Like I know LOL

really it looks like I need to find a casual guild that wants to do it
all but hasn't yet.

Hans that is an awesome post..you should write a guide....

is there a guide out there...dungeons in the outlands 101


ps I have some alts all alliance...43 shaman..30 rogue...30 mage and
26 druid.
I tried them and there was always something that didn't feel right
with my play style, don't get me wrong the only one I didn't like was
the feral druid....no really the 10-20 as bear was the most
frustrating thing in my whole wow exp.

and after 20(only 26)ok you have kitty form.
OH YEA this is what everyone brags about super fast kills...no down
time ok lets get to 60 tomorrow....well maybe not.

I just don't see damage...heck I stacked str gear on him blue
weapons...etc and he hits like a sissy, fightning mobs his level he
is 50-60% health after a fight...on a good day LOL
I really wanted to level him but it was just not to be.


Should I try to get an alt up, someone that hears...please join our
group?
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Shammy

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Since: Dec 15, 2006
Posts: 740



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:58 am
Post subject: Re: Noob needs help and guidance [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

s> I just don't see damage...heck I stacked str gear on him blue
s> weapons...etc and he hits like a sissy, fightning mobs his level he
s> is 50-60% health after a fight...on a good day LOL
s> I really wanted to level him but it was just not to be.

With best regards, Shammy.

You arent effective at that level and you need the key talents that come
after 30+ points in feral. Improved leader of the pack + a lot of stamina
and crit make your health refill just enough so you dont have downtime, you
can't get that kind of HP before outlands.
Remember that agility is as important stat as +str it makes you crit and
dodge a lot and increases AP too, +str is just AP increase.
My feral druid has 10k HP, 34% crit and 2500 attack power and I can grind
for hours without a drink.

P.S.
What kind of blue weapon did you put on your druid ? there are no druid
weapons till outland.
Druids get absolutely no use of the dps on the weapon and only look the
stats, so just use some green that has some stamina and agility or str
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Darin Johnson

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Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 609



(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:20 pm
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On Aug 28, 7:59 am, sparks <jstal... DeleteThis @swbell.net> wrote:
> Is 26 too high for DeadMines, just a way to get more feel for groups.

No. It's getting close to the point where you get no
XP, but no one does instances for the experience points.
Check out
http://www.wowwiki.com/Instance_Guide:The_Deadmines
for a list of good loot. The loot may not be that good
for you if you've got lots of stuff from the auction house,
or if you're headed off to Gnomeregan soon. But some are
still of decent quality for level 26.

If you've got time, do the "Defias Brotherhood" quest
series at Sentinel Hill. It leads to the "kill Van Cleef"
quest inside Deadmines, and has very good rewards. But
more importantly for your level, you can pick up a letter
on Van Cleef's body that leads to a quest that sends you
to Stormwind Stockades, and then to a nice blue ring
that will last you awhile. The Stockades is a good
place to go to learn how to work in instances, since
it's short, easy to get to, and fights are straight
forward (level 26-30 is good for Stockades).

Be warned though. It's very difficult to get a well
organized group in the Deadmines. Do not go into it
expecting to find group behavior that you can emulate!
Instead, you'll get an opportunity to see many of the
ways that groups can screw up.

--
Darin Johnson
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