Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES..

sanjian wrote:
> AirRaid wrote:
> > TALK ABOUT A MEGATON
>
> <snip>
>
> Wait... how can a game that's meant for one of the two brand spanking new
> systems work on the DS - a portable system?
>
> Is the DS -that- good??? o_O



well it's simple, Dragon Quest 9 is coming to DS, it's DS-exclusive,
it's not coming to PS2, PSP, PS3, Gamecube or Wii. still, this is a
huge victory for Nintendo. DS has a larger install base than Wii or
Gamecube, and DS will have a larger install base than Wii, Gamecube and
PS3 combined by the time DQ9 comes out.

Is the DS "that good" ? in terms of horsepower / graphics, no it's
not. not only is it not remotely close to PS3 in power, it's not even
close to Wii or PS2 or even PSP in power. it's more or less N64 / PS1
level. but in terms of *sales*, how well it is doing, yes DS is the
best.


The question is now becomes, Dragon Quest 10. will it be on Wii or PS3
? whatever has the highest install base in Japan in a few years.
good chance of Wii winning that battle given PS3 prohibitive price
right now, and probably for all of 2007. If Nintendo manages to get
DQ10 exclusive, it'll be a knock out victory for Nintendo in Japan
since they already are going to have DQ9 exclusive. no amount of FF
games on PS3 (FF13, FFvs13, possible FF7 remake, FF14, etc) will make
up the difference since DQ sells more than FF in Japan.
 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

Rob Browning wrote:
> No; that's why I mentioned the PSP. But the general fact that a large
> number of console gamers aren't interested in portable systems doesn't
> change.

Where are you pulling this out of, your ass?

> And DQ fans have always been console gamers before, for obvious
> reasons.

Obviously, this too came out of your ass.

> If the console and portable markets don't overlap, then
> obviously there won't be many DQ fans in the DS's installed base.

And yet, you go around and pretend that there is no overlap. Then fuss
about when a game company has the audacity to acknowledge the overlap
and go with the system that has the highest market penetration for the
next release.

Farix

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 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

sanjian wrote:
> Rob Browning wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:04:41 -0500, "sanjian" <sanjian.DeleteThis@widomaker.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There is nothing about a portable gaming system that even remotely
>>> suggests that it cannot be a system for serious games. The GBA is
>>> at least as
>> I think you're the only one talking about whether or not portable
>> systems can have serious games on them. What I'm talking about is how
>
> I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Because, other than that, I
> really can't see anything meaningful in your argument.
>
>> suited they are to traditional console RPGs and other games that
>> require large amounts of time and effort to accomplish anything in.
>
> Is there some sort of federal law against putting in large amounts of time
> and effort on a portable game?
>
>>> Other than the size of the system, and the addition of a battery,
>>> there is no differene between these classics on their original
>>> platform, and on the portable - except that some of them have been
>>> updated to become more modern.
>> Yes, and that makes them unsuited to the system. You can still enjoy
>> them, but only because you're willing to handwave the many
>> disadvantages that portables place upon them.
>
> WHAT disadvatages? And no, you can't say "it's unsuited" as a disadvantage,
> and then claim that there are disadvantages to prove that it's unsuited.

The only disadvantage I can come up with is the smaller screen. But that
is not really much of a disadvantage.

Farix

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 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 14:43:05 -0500, Rob Browning
<pluvius3.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:26:41 GMT, "Ethan Hammond"
><eshammond.TakeThisOut@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>"Rob Browning" <pluvius3.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:7qq5o29ftmb9mg3n5764h5j9hlfkmkda51@4ax.com...
>>> On 14 Dec 2006 16:08:37 -0800, "AirRaid" <AirRaid1500.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>If PS3 gets DQ10, then its a tie between Nintendo and Sony, each
>>>>getting one main DQ game. however if DQ10 comes out on Wii instead of
>>>
>>> No, I think Sony would win in that case. Never mind the fact that
>>> FF13 is coming out on the PS3; DQ9 being on the DS isn't nearly as
>>> much of a coup for Nintendo as DQ9 being on the Wii would have been.
>>> The DS doesn't need the help.
>>
>>The Wii dosen't need the help either. Wii is going to get Super Smash
>>Brothers
>
>Yeah, yeah it does. Currently the Wii is doing well because Nintendo
>fanboys and people blinded by the hype are getting it, but this won't
>last too long without a lot of good games to back it up.

Or maybe it could be that the Wii was actually available in quantity,
has arguably the best launch lineup of the current generation of
consoles, has console exclusives with wide spread name recognition,
has an innovative (even if it's gimmicky) control system, and the
lowest price?

But surely it's just the hype, and fanboys. Must be.

>>Brawl and other huge Nintendo exclusive games in 2007, 360 is going to get
>>Halo 3
>
>Nintendo and Microsoft had those same huge exclusive franchises last
>generation. While they at least helped Microsoft get a foothold in
>the industry, they didn't do much against Sony's dominance.

Sony seems to be doing plenty against Sony's dominance. For that
matter, Nintendo at the least, doesn't need to have financial
dominance of this market. There's still plenty of room for also-rans,
especially when those also-rans are profitable.

The same could probably be said of MS, but they make it a point of
pride to dominate every market they enter, so while they may not be
making any money at the moment, and they're not a serious threat
outside of the US yet, I'm sure it's their intent to dominate the
videogame market. It's just how MS does things.
--
"Lyrical Tokarev! Kill them All!" - Touge Chan
Abraham Evangelista
 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

Rob Browning <pluvius3.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> writes:
> "What's the point of playing something with a tiny screen and an
> unergonomic design at home when a console or PC is much more
> comfortable?

I disagree that the design is unergonomic, or that playing on a
console or PC is necessarily much more comfortable. I tend to play my
wife's GBA sitting on the same couch as when I play the PS2, and I'm
not more or less comfortable playing either.

> "Portables were meant to be played when circumstances keep people from
> playing with larger, more powerful devices.

That is simply not true.

> Because of this, portable games are supposed to be quick to play
> and enjoy during the time you spend on the subway or a ten-minute
> coffee break."

That is an opinion, not a fact.

> "Sorry, but it's physically impossible to make a system that's both
> portable enough to fit well in a pocket and at the same time is as
> comfortable to manipulate as a console controller or keyboard/mouse
> setup or as easy on the eyes as a moderately sized TV or monitor. I've
> tried the DS and it doesn't break those rules."

It doesn't for you. Which makes your opinion no less valid, but it
does not make it any more fact.

> If I have to hunch over the thing and contort my hands to play it,
> it doesn't matter if I'm in a frigging meadow; it's still not going
> to be comfortable."

Then you're holding it wrong, or it's just not a good fit for you.
That doesn't make it any more of a fact for anyone; it just means that
your opinion is based on your experience. Others have different
experiences.

> "It is if you don't allow the player to save where ever he wants,
> which is the case with console RPGs.

So, uh, gosh, maybe that will change for portable RPGs. Big whoop.

> And besides that, save files still don't fix the problem of not
> feeling like you've accomplished anything after your ten minutes of
> play.

Others have posted disagreeing with this point, so it's clearly not
fact.

> Not many console RPGs can give you that sense of accomplishment in
> that short amount of time."

Apparently FF3 can, and DS9 is likely to (based on the developers not
being morons).

-=Eric
 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

Rob Browning wrote:
>
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:45:28 -0500, Ted <nospamforted.TakeThisOut@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Rob Browning wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry, but it's physically impossible to make a system that's both
> >> portable enough to fit well in a pocket and at the same time is as
> >> comfortable to manipulate as a console controller
> >
> >You've obviously never played a Jaguar or Intellivision...
>
> I've played an Intellivision, yes, as well as a Colecovision and an
> Atari 5200. What is your point?

My point is the Intellivision controller is uncomfortable to use; the DS
has a more comfortable regular controller setup. Therefore it is
physically possible to make a portable system's controls more
comfortable tha a console's.

>
> >The original DS doesn't quite fit comfortably in a pocket (well, in
> >cargo shorts or a jacket it's fine), but its traditional controls are, I
> >think, as comfortable as the SNES controller or the original Genesis
> >controller. The stylus interface can in many ways be more comfortable
>
> Controllers have gotten more comfortable since then.

And yet you didn't say "as comfortable as the most comfortable console
contrl system" or "as comfortable as the control systems on the current
systems" or something similar.
 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

In article <132bo21pgd2kuiql8all1u60q708v1k5r6.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>, Rob Browning wrote:
>On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:24:15 -0500, "sanjian" <sanjian.TakeThisOut@widomaker.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Rob Browning wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:09:45 -0500, "sanjian" <sanjian.TakeThisOut@widomaker.com>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>> The only difference between having it on the DS and on the PS3 is it
>>>> won't be as pretty.
>>>
>>> And it will be on a portable. That itself either means that it will
>>> be unsuitable for the system or it will be changed to be made suitable
>>> for the system. Reports make it sound like the latter will be true.
>>
>>You keep throwing around the term unsuitable as if it has any meaning. The
>>fact that it has a battery instead of being slave to the nearest electrical
>>outlet doesn't make it unsuitable. There is NOTHING, other than the size of
>>the screen, that a "full" gaming system brings to the table, that is not
>>also present on a portable of equal power. So anything that's suitable for
>
>Yes, keep on brushing aside the rather major factor of the size of the
>screen, as well as the rest of the things that make portables less
>comfortable to play than consoles. I'm sure that helps your argument.
>

I am still trying to figure out why you think CRPGs are unsuited to
portable formats when they have a long and successful history there,
going back fifteen years or more. The first computer RPG I ever
played was Defenders of Oasis on the Game Gear (still have the game
and the Game Gear, as a matter of fact).

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"
 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

Rob Browning wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:26:48 -0500, "sanjian" <sanjian.RemoveThis@widomaker.com>
> wrote:
>
> I really should just tell you to read my earlier posts again, but I'll
> be nice and do some copypasta:
>
> "What's the point of playing something with a tiny screen and an
> unergonomic design at home when a console or PC is much more
> comfortable?

How is a console more comfortable? I can play my PSP on the sofa, or in
bed. Every console game I've played required you to sit in front of the
TV, looking up at it. I suppose that you could play on the couch, if it
was 2 feet from the TV. Funny, I've never lived in a house with that
setup.

> "Portables were meant to be played when circumstances keep people from
> playing with larger, more powerful devices. Because of this, portable
> games are supposed to be quick to play and enjoy during the time you
> spend on the subway or a ten-minute coffee break."

What about Pokemon? It's been around on portables for over a decade.

> "Sorry, but it's physically impossible to make a system that's both
> portable enough to fit well in a pocket and at the same time is as
> comfortable to manipulate as a console controller or keyboard/mouse
> setup or as easy on the eyes as a moderately sized TV or monitor. I've
> tried the DS and it doesn't break those rules."

OK. I'll give you that the controls on the portable aren't as good as a
console or computer. But it's pretty close to a console. Both are blown
away by a mouse/keyboard, and a TV (even HDTV) sucks compared to a
computer monitor. So, if you're not going to play a RPG on a computer,
like God intended, does it really matter what lesser machine you use?

> "What makes you think I'm talking about the location? That's only one
> part of the comfort equation, and a relatively minor one at that. If
> I have to hunch over the thing and contort my hands to play it, it
> doesn't matter if I'm in a frigging meadow; it's still not going to be
> comfortable."

I don't hunch over my PSP.

> ">But that's nothing that a save file can't fix.
>
> "It is if you don't allow the player to save where ever he wants,
> which is the case with console RPGs.

It's simple. Shut it off when you're done. Turn it on when you want to
play again. You really only need save games for when you want to do
something else with it.

> And besides that, save files
> still don't fix the problem of not feeling like you've accomplished
> anything after your ten minutes of play. Not many console RPGs can
> give you that sense of accomplishment in that short amount of time."

What about daily commutes?

--
Mike Swaim swaim.RemoveThis@hal-pc.org at home | Quote: "Boingie"^4 Y,W & D
MD Anderson Division of Quantitative Sciences
mpswaim.RemoveThis@mdanderson.org or mswaim.RemoveThis@odin.mdacc.tmc.edu at work
ICBM: 29.763N 95.363W|Disclaimer: Yeah, like I speak for MD Anderson.
 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

I V wrote:
> This brings up something I (with my extraordinarily limited knowledge of
> contemporary console gaming) have been thinking about for a while. It
> seems (maybe) that increasingly what you might call "old-school" gamers
> are moving towards portable systems - the various FF games on the Advance
> and DS would be an example of this. Is this true (like I say, I pay very
> little attention to what happens in the world of console games these days,
> so I could just be hallucinating)?

I don't know about the rest of the stuff 'cause I'm not really excited
by DQ or FF or any other games in that genre, but from personal
experience I can say that portable machines are very appealing to me
(being an "old-school gamer"). They are the only platforms that still
seem to attract people to make 2D games. It's like 2D died when when 3D
came along and I really don't see why the two can't co-exist (but that's
a whole other discussion).

Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

"Rob Browning" <pluvius3.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8ki8o25mnj1adjtgemiptch33rkio5hsb1@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:18:29 GMT, "Ethan Hammond"
> <eshammond.RemoveThis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>There is NO FF7 remake! The E3 trailer used the same engine as
>>Advent Children.
>
> I'd say that an FF7 remake is fairly likely in the near future.

Square straight up told everyone in my company they
are not doing a FF7 remake and for people not to buy
a PS3 based on the assumption that it is getting a FF7
remake.

--
All Purpose Culture Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

"Rob Browning" <pluvius3.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:70i8o25opavqvladjng39trs6q2ajnnjsc@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 08:59:15 GMT, "Ethan Hammond"
> <eshammond.DeleteThis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> Exactly; they were thinking about money instead of how appropriate the
> change was for the series. I think they're doing the same thing with
> DQ9, and apparently a lot of people agree, seeing as how everyone's
> talking about what a financial decision this is.

Think of it this way, w/ the money they make from DQ9 they can make
more next gen RPG's.

--
All Purpose Culture Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

"Rob Browning" <pluvius3.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nri8o21pv0fjnkmcb1koqo2qfqfo38k0k8@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:26:41 GMT, "Ethan Hammond"
> <eshammond.TakeThisOut@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>The Wii dosen't need the help either. Wii is going to get Super Smash
>>Brothers
>
> Yeah, yeah it does. Currently the Wii is doing well because Nintendo
> fanboys and people blinded by the hype are getting it, but this won't
> last too long without a lot of good games to back it up.

The Wii is awesome I am having a great time w/ the latest batch of game,
especially Metal Slug Anthlogy and Super Swing Golf, and it is great to be
able to get old classic games, especially Turbo Graphix games.

Also the Wii has the price advantage, you can actually buy games w/ your
system and enjoy it on a SDTV. Nintendo was defintely smart to try going
in a different direction.

>>Brawl and other huge Nintendo exclusive games in 2007, 360 is going to get
>>Halo 3
>
> Nintendo and Microsoft had those same huge exclusive franchises last
> generation. While they at least helped Microsoft get a foothold in
> the industry, they didn't do much against Sony's dominance.

Well if the Japanese would like FPS games better, BETTER!

But that was then and this is now. The PS3 is not the PS2, the 360
is not the Xbox, and the Wii is not the GC.

Almost no one took the DS seriously against the PSP and the DS is
currently outselling the PSP by about 5 to 1.

--
All Purpose Culture Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
 >> Stay informed about: Nintendo DS sticks a sword down PS3's throat - DRAGON QUES.. 

Invid Fan <invid.RemoveThis@localnet.com> writes:
> In article <97ldo2t7v28a4e1lssnop8mbd2mdbujihj.RemoveThis@4ax.com>, Rob Browning
> <pluvius3.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > There are a number of things that have been received fairly well
> > despite not being suited to their media. Take audiobooks, for
> > example. It's much easier to read a book than it is to listen to one,
> > yet people like audiobooks because you can make use of them while
> > driving a car or doing other things that prohibit reading. But at
> > home, most people would choose the print book over the audiobook.
> >
> Then again, there's something... nice about having someone tell you a
> story. I especially like it when authors read their own work: Steven
> King for example does a great job. If it wasn't for the higher price of
> audio books I'd have many more.

I had a much harder time getting through _The Dubliners_ as a print
book than I did the audiobook version. Part of the problem was the
parts of the book written in dialect, that when spoken were perfectly
intelligible. The other was that the book is basically written as a
series of rambling tales, the sort of story that makes much more sense
when read aloud than when the words sit, dully unresponsive, on the
page.

-=Eric
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