Nights of Reckoning rules cards

Thank you. This set was newbie-unfriendly enough as it was, this was a
good choice to make those rules cards legal.

Ben Szymkow
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

LSJ wrote:
> Nights of Reckoning rules cards are legal for all V:EKN tournaments,
> contructed and limited.
>
> They do not count as "most recent printing" of anything, however, since
> the texts on those cards had to be edited down in some cases.
>
> Effective immediately (when the set is legal, which is tomorrow, the
> 10th of May).

In regards to the printing of Elder Library as a rules card, that card
did not have a cost. Does Elder Library still cost 1 pool?

Thanks,
John Zbyszinski
Prince of Allentown
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

> In regards to the printing of Elder Library as a rules card, that card
> did not have a cost. Does Elder Library still cost 1 pool?

Yes it does. Notice:

> > They do not count as "most recent printing" of anything, however, since
> > the texts on those cards had to be edited down in some cases.

In this instance, the card was missing a rather non-trivial portion of
its text, ie. the cost.
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

Salem wrote:
>
> Just more evidence that WW (and LSJ specifically) are rational people,
> and willing to listen to the concerns of the players.
>

it's a positive action. Of course, i'd hate to see more of such cards
in the future.
Instead, i'd like to see some pleasant surprises like a 12-card booster
with 2 rares.

Why not include 2 rares in a booster in the new set ?

It will have many reprints, so why not include 2 rares, make players
extremely happy and at the same time increase sales. As players like
myself that have enough of Sabbat/SW cards that are going to be
reprinted,
will likely buy 1 box or maybe none. As it is very likely that they
will choose
to buy the new cards as singles. And keep in mind that these kind of
players
are many and it's their kind that spends a lot of money on vtes cards...
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

LSJ wrote:
> Nights of Reckoning rules cards are legal for all V:EKN tournaments,
> contructed and limited.
>
> They do not count as "most recent printing" of anything, however, since
> the texts on those cards had to be edited down in some cases.
>
> Effective immediately (when the set is legal, which is tomorrow, the
> 10th of May).
Thanks a lot from all my newbies, and from myself, too!

Yours,
Ector
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

On 9 May 2006 08:09:21 -0700, "LSJ" <vtesrep DeleteThis @white-wolf.com> wrote:

>Nights of Reckoning rules cards are legal for all V:EKN tournaments,
>contructed and limited.
>
>They do not count as "most recent printing" of anything, however, since
>the texts on those cards had to be edited down in some cases.
>
>Effective immediately (when the set is legal, which is tomorrow, the
>10th of May).

hi,

in the words of the unforgettable Anakin Skywalker: Yippie!!

thanks!!!

regards,
Chris.QJ
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

Daneel wrote:
> I'm not happy with this decision. I do not see how introducing a bunch
> of unaesthetic proxies to the game elevates the level of the game. It
> certainly detracts from my enjoyment when I'm playing against proxies,
> regardless of whether they are official or not, because for me the
> artwork is very important (and actually the other art elements - borders,
> symbols, etc. are important too).
>
> I certainly wouldn't point newbies towards NoR because it is so far from
> mainstream V:tES, it is hard to integrate, and start-ups need the ability
> to gradually absorb the game. Therefor I see this hype about this noob-
> friendliness to be controversial.

It's not about making the set newbie-friendly. It's about making the
set less newbie un-friendly.

--
- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

Daneel wrote:
> I'm not happy with this decision. I do not see how introducing a bunch
> of unaesthetic proxies to the game elevates the level of the game. It
> certainly detracts from my enjoyment when I'm playing against proxies,
> regardless of whether they are official or not, because for me the
> artwork is very important (and actually the other art elements - borders,
> symbols, etc. are important too).

Did you miss the endless discussion about just this topic on this here
newsgroup *and* the White Wolf Forum?

The cards were already legal for non tournament play and limited
tournament play (i.e. draft) when they were released. They are now
legal for constructed tournaments, as there is no good reason for them
not to be, given how they were already legal for limited tournament
play and casual play.

There are certainly arguments to be made that the rules card/proxies
shouldn't exist at all (and while I disagree with such arguments, at
least I can see where they come from), that they do exist and that they
are already legal for casual play and draft play makes it mostly silly
to keep them out of constructed play. But as they are now legal for
constructed play, this is all moot.

> I certainly wouldn't point newbies towards NoR because it is so far from
> mainstream V:tES, it is hard to integrate, and start-ups need the ability
> to gradually absorb the game. Therefor I see this hype about this noob-
> friendliness to be controversial.

That is mostly moot--NoR might very well be non newbie friendly, yet
new players are still going to buy it. And in doing so, they are
getting access to important useful reprints in the form of the rules
cards. Keeping them from using them in constructed tournament play is
just silly.

-Peter
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

On 9 May 2006 08:09:21 -0700, LSJ <vtesrep.TakeThisOut@white-wolf.com> wrote:

> Nights of Reckoning rules cards are legal for all V:EKN tournaments,
> contructed and limited.
>
> They do not count as "most recent printing" of anything, however, since
> the texts on those cards had to be edited down in some cases.
>
> Effective immediately (when the set is legal, which is tomorrow, the
> 10th of May).

I'm not happy with this decision. I do not see how introducing a bunch
of unaesthetic proxies to the game elevates the level of the game. It
certainly detracts from my enjoyment when I'm playing against proxies,
regardless of whether they are official or not, because for me the
artwork is very important (and actually the other art elements - borders,
symbols, etc. are important too).

I certainly wouldn't point newbies towards NoR because it is so far from
mainstream V:tES, it is hard to integrate, and start-ups need the ability
to gradually absorb the game. Therefor I see this hype about this noob-
friendliness to be controversial.

Bit I guess if those who voted / expressed their opinions are
representative of the majority, this decision makes the majority
happy, for what its worth.

--
Bye,

Daneel
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

In message <ops9f560cvo6j3lh DeleteThis @news.chello.hu>, Daneel <daniel DeleteThis @eposta.hu>
writes:
>I do not see how introducing a bunch
> of unaesthetic proxies to the game elevates the level of the game.

They're not proxies.

If you don't like rules cards, say you don't like rules cards. If you
don't like proxies, say you don't like proxies. But if you don't like
rules cards, don't say you don't like proxies as though they're the same
thing.

They're not, and it confuses the issue if players think proxies are
legal. The WW Forum shows just how players think a judge can somehow
okay a proxy card from out of his ass because you don't have a legal
one.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

Daneel wrote:
> No, why would I? Disagreeing with the outcome of a vote or decision means
> to You that I must have, natually, missed the discussion beforehand?

Well, all the points you brought up were addressed at length in the
discussions that came before and during the vote. I figured that if you
had such objections, you would have made them before and during the
vote, rather than afterwords.

> Not really to go into this, but there is no such thing as being legal for
> casual play. If You want to play casual "legally", you do by the
> constructed rules.

Kindred Restructure and Succubus Club, for instance, are legal for
casual play but not tournament play. Casual (as opposed to tournament)
play has different rules (as per the rule book) than the tournament
rules. Most of them are the same, but some of them are different.
Previous to the vote, rules cards were perfectly legal for non
constructed tournament play (just like Succubus Club and Kindred
Restructure. And playing with a 100 card deck in a 6 player game). Just
not constructed tournament play. Which is different from non
constructed tournament play.

-Peter
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

pdb6 RemoveThis @lightlink.com wrote:
> Daneel wrote:
> > No, why would I? Disagreeing with the outcome of a vote or decision means
> > to You that I must have, natually, missed the discussion beforehand?
>
> Well, all the points you brought up were addressed at length in the
> discussions that came before and during the vote. I figured that if you
> had such objections, you would have made them before and during the
> vote, rather than afterwords.
>
> > Not really to go into this, but there is no such thing as being legal for
> > casual play. If You want to play casual "legally", you do by the
> > constructed rules.
>
> Kindred Restructure and Succubus Club, for instance, are legal for
> casual play but not tournament play. Casual (as opposed to tournament)
> play has different rules (as per the rule book) than the tournament
> rules. Most of them are the same, but some of them are different.
> Previous to the vote, rules cards were perfectly legal for non
> constructed tournament play (just like Succubus Club and Kindred
> Restructure. And playing with a 100 card deck in a 6 player game). Just
> not constructed tournament play. Which is different from non
> constructed tournament play.
>

Last I checked, Kindred Restructure was still banned in all official
tournaments.

--
- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards 

Greg wrote:
> Last I checked, Kindred Restructure was still banned in all official
> tournaments.

You saw the part in my comment about how I was saying that Kindred
Restructure and Succubus Club were legal in *casual* play but not
tournament play? (to wit: "Kindred Restructure and Succubus Club, for
instance, are legal for casual play but not tournament play.")

Just checking

-Peter
 >> Stay informed about: Nights of Reckoning rules cards