Neverwinter Nights 2 Wish List

Shawn Wilson wrote:
> Neverwinter Nights 2 has been announced (a while ago) it will use the 3.5
> rule set (with whatever modifications they see fit).
>
>
>
> What do you most want to see?

Spellcasting prestige classes--by which I mean classes with +1 level of
existing class casting ability per level, not the "duplicate some spells
as special abilities" way NWN handled it--and the ability to create more
with the toolset.
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Loren Pechtel wrote:

> How about some little things to address repetitive issues:
>
> Auto-buy: On an item in inventory you set a desired quantity. If you
> have less than that and talk to a store that sells it and have enough
> gold your inventory is automatically filled up.
>
Yeah, this is annoying when buying lots of cure light potions, or heal
potions, or anywhere in between depending on your budget and needs. And
from the "realism" standpoint I don't see any problem with it either,
"I'll take 30 of those CLW bottles please" seems perfectly reasonable,
or at least "I'll take all you've got of those". Heck, there should be
a volume discount!

> Multifunction quickslots: Allow multiple items to be dragged to a
> quickslot. It will attempt to use the first, if that's gone it will
> use the second and so on. Also an item thus stacked can't be used up
> from inventory--even if you use the last one you'll still have the
> item but with a quantity of zero. This means that for things like
> healing you can just set it up once and not have to ever again worry
> about binding items to slots.
>
This is a bit more of a stretch, something that should be doable in a
futuristic world, but when you're dealing with little bottles tucked
into bandoliers or shoved down in pouches or whatever, well, ease of
access doesn't seem like something you can automate. And when it
becomes a matter of "well cast heal if I haven't cast it already, or
drink a heal potion, or use that wand with heal on it, or if none of
those then its time to try the same with Cure criticals and then...
well, if you don't have an imp to keep track of all those instructions
(and I hope he's literal minded) then its even harder to imagine what
"in game" process you're trying to duplicate.

Now barring that multiple functions to one button angle, I do like your
other idea of items having a "zero" on them so you don't have to fiddle
with that slot again if you happen to run dry.

> And some other gripes:
>
> Infinite stacking of inventory. In the stores also--when you sell
> stuff to them it should be stacked. When you attempt to move a stack
> you get asked how many to move/buy/sell with the default being all.

This looks a lot like your first point as well. But the infinite
stacking part, well, we're back to game balance issues, they're trying
to keep you from having infinite carrying capacity. Forget infinite,
NWN has lots of stuff like potion bottles in stacks of 20, and yet other
stuff like arrows in stacks of 99. I'm pretty sure you can go in in
your own modules and make the potions stackable to 99 also if you like,
already. The smaller stack sizes are there deliberately (although most
people designing modules probably don't give any thought to whether they
should change the default stack sizes)

>
> Infinite inventory except in magical containers. We have weight as a
> limiting factor already, the squares limits make no sense as the
> number of squares taken isn't a fair representation of the bulk of the
> item. (Really now, a whole bag of holding full of gems?) Alternately,
> assign everything a volume as well as a weight and limit what you can
> carry based on that. In the pencil-and-paper game there is magical
> storage available even at low levels (the handy haversack) and in time
> you can get portable holes. Why should the e-version be far more
> restrictive?
>
I think in general the squares issue -is- an attempt to model volume.
Weight is one restriction on carrying capacity, but its not the only
one, and its not even a very good one when we're dealing with characters
with a 40+ str like the 35 fighter bard RDD I've been playing recently;
the amount of stuff I can carry around is outrageous but at least its
not unlimited, as eventually I run out of places to tuck all those magic
two handers and suits of plate.

> A better variety in the stores. I perfectly well understand the power
> limits on what's for sale but it's annoying to simply not find
> anything of a particular type of item to be had with no apparent
> reason for the exclusion. It's almost always a case of something you
> already had and thus don't need--but you might want it to equip a
> henchman with.
>
This is entirely up to the module designer, has nothing to do with the
NWN engine. While in some cases its an oversight, often the choice of
gear available is actually deliberately limited by the module designer,
in fact in some of my favorites they deliberately strip your gear off
before the module starts so they can really control what you're running
around with. Designing a module where someone who is level 12 with a +3
sword is going to be just as challenged as someone who's level 12 with a
+10 sword with keen and haste and on hit: 5d20 hellball is really tricky!

> Stores should sell the lower power scrolls also. You don't want the
> low level stuff in HOTU?? I was quite annoyed at not being able to
> find a continual flame scroll anywhere.
>
Same issue as above. Don't think of the HOTU module as the "official"
game, its just a sample module, albiet a nice long one, still, what they
happen to sell in it doesn't have anything to do with what the NWN
engine will let you build vendors to sell.

> Better henchman AI:
> 1) When you're working on a trap they should stay clear!

Just tell em to not pick traps? Unless I misunderstand you, this is
already in the engine.

> 2) The ability to order them to bug out.
>
Yeah, that would help a lot. But its more complicated than that, you
have to tell em which way to run and so on, and unless you want em to
run smack into a wall, you'll actually have to map out a route for them
or something? One idea would be to build in the ability to set a "bug
out to here" point.

> A loot command.
>
For the henchmen?

> A scrollbook. All identified scrolls you own automatically go in it.
> It has tabs to let you quickly find the spell you are looking for. As
> it stands I've had three bags worth of scrolls. Annoying to store
> them and a pain to find the one you want.

Yeah it is isn't it? Again I think this is one of those realism issues,
but here I'm much more willing to sacrifice realism on the altar of
convenience; any character I've been running for more than a few levels
ends up with a page or more of scrolls and I end up not using them much
at all because I can't conveniently see what I have. Other than the
monster summoning ones that is, the roman numerals make those easy to
find. Even just better icons on them, or different colors for different
schools of magic or something...

Lance
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Kish wrote:

> Shawn Wilson wrote:
>
>> Neverwinter Nights 2 has been announced (a while ago) it will use the
>> 3.5 rule set (with whatever modifications they see fit).
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you most want to see?
>
>
> Spellcasting prestige classes--by which I mean classes with +1 level of
> existing class casting ability per level, not the "duplicate some spells
> as special abilities" way NWN handled it--and the ability to create more
> with the toolset.

Yeah, this is one thing thats been asked for again and again and the
response has always been "the engine won't let us do that". Well here
we go, new engine, FIX it.

Prestige classes are one of the best things about the later editions of
AD&D as far as I'm concerned, and add immensely to the replayability of
the game... except that from a practical standpoint you're limited to
melee oriented characters with the current implementation.

Lance
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Shawn Wilson wrote:
> Neverwinter Nights 2 has been announced (a while ago) it will use the 3.5
> rule set (with whatever modifications they see fit).
>
>
>
> What do you most want to see?

The ability to use multiple metamagic feats on a spell.
Epic spellcasting (Level 10+ spells for use of metamagic ex : Maximize
the meteor shower - spell level 12 - See 'Epic level handbook').
And the 'Tome And Blood' metamagic feats list that would be great.

Aggressivity setting on hirelings. I've really had enough of Tomy, the
'silent thief' running towards enemy with his knife, clearly
outnumbered, when I TRY TO DO IT QUIETLY !!! Or Daelan running into
multiple traps I'm trying to disable while an enemy which hasn't seen us
has just discovered this ...hole running... They should be set to
'Evasive' I see an enemy I runaway or stay defense (Combat expertise),
'Neutral', I see an enemy I do nothing and the well knonw 'Aggressive' I
see an enemy I run into him wanna see blood spill [bloodlust roar follows].

I have forgottent the warrior feat that allow to get back standing
immediatly after being overthrown, but it exists.

Prestiges classes.
This would add interest AND life durabilty to the game. And I hope in
seeing prestige classes with not too much of power difference like seen
in the D&D3.5 books. They say in the books "We have the classes
balanced" yeah good joke, try and read. I'd like to avoid puting a
prestige class to the garbage because it's useless, in NWN which I
played a lot, I did 2 prestiges classes Red Dragon Disciple and Weapon
Master. And compared to the book's description, weapon master looks like
a big joke ...

Well that's all I think of asking for now.

Bye.

Kelakhai

PS : Does anyone knows how to do dialog loops in NWN Editor ? I don't
manage to find the info anywhere ... It's a shame, it's the only thing
missing to my modules ...
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Kelakhai wrote:
> Shawn Wilson wrote:
> > Neverwinter Nights 2 has been announced (a while ago) it will use the 3.5
> > rule set (with whatever modifications they see fit). What do you most want to see?

> Aggressivity setting on hirelings. I've really had enough of Tomy, the
> 'silent thief' running towards enemy with his knife, clearly
> outnumbered, when I TRY TO DO IT QUIETLY !!! Or Daelan running into
> multiple traps I'm trying to disable while an enemy which hasn't seen us
> has just discovered this

Doesn't Tony M's Henchman AI pack take care of this? Haven't played to
OC in a while but I remember it being quite useful. It certainly
gives you a lot more henchman control/options. You can always tell
your henchman to stay put or give them the "follow" peacefully command
(tho' sometimes they ignore it when they see the enemy)

> Prestiges classes.
> This would add interest AND life durabilty to the game. <snip>, I did 2 prestiges classes Red Dragon Disciple and Weapon
> Master. And compared to the book's description, weapon master looks like
> a big joke ...

It should be easy to get Shadow Jump for Shadow Dancers, one of my fave
prestige classes.
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Lance Berg wrote:
> Loren Pechtel wrote:
> > A better variety in the stores. I perfectly well understand the power
> > limits on what's for sale but it's annoying to simply not find
> > anything of a particular type of item to be had with no apparent
> > reason for the exclusion.
> >
> This is entirely up to the module designer, has nothing to do with the
> NWN engine. While in some cases its an oversight, often the choice of
> gear available is actually deliberately limited by the module designer,

One of my pet peeves is modules that have an enemy with a certain power
and no way to counteract that power. Two examples: one module I
played had a creature or NPC that cast Curse on you, and there were no
clerics to heal and no Remove Curse scrolls in the module. Another had
creatures that drained levels - and no NPC clerics and no Restoration
scrolls or potions.

> > A scrollbook. All identified scrolls you own automatically go in it.
> > It has tabs to let you quickly find the spell you are looking for. As
> > it stands I've had three bags worth of scrolls. Annoying to store
> > them and a pain to find the one you want.
>
> Even just better icons on them, or different colors for different
> schools of magic or something...

Yeah, some icons are really.... unintelligible?
Different colors and shades would be great - say, green for healing,
red for offensive, blue for defensive, yellow for buffs, etc.

What I end up doing (I usually play FTR/ROG/Shadowdancer with as high
UMD as I can manage. I put all my assorted scrolls on the last
inventory sheet (or when I can afford Bags of Holding just for scrolls,
they go on the last page also).

I'll put cures, restoration, neut poison, etc on the bottom row,
fireball, lightning bolt and other offensive spells on the top row,
etc.

At times, I've had to put scrolls in order by type (electrical damage
scrolls in one row, fire damage in another row, healing in one bag of
holding, etc.)
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Kelakhai wrote:
> PS : Does anyone knows how to do dialog loops in NWN Editor ? I don't
> manage to find the info anywhere ... It's a shame, it's the only thing
> missing to my modules ...

Use copy and paste link, I think. (Not near my toolset machine at the
moment.)

K
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alordofchaos.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:


> I can't get at it from work (Surf Patrol, argghhhh), but will check it
> out when I get home (unfortunately, I live in a rural area so my dialup
> download speed will be something like 20k - have a 56k modem, but poor
> line conditions)
>
Do you have a working cell phone? I manage to get around 120K using a
cell phone connection, previously with Verizon and then later with
Cingular (I'm stuck with no land line at all for almost 6 months a
year), might be worth looking into if your cell reception is decent.

Lance
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Lance Berg wrote:
> alordofchaos DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> > I can't get at it from work (Surf Patrol, argghhhh), but will check it
> > out when I get home (unfortunately, I live in a rural area so my dialup
> > download speed will be something like 20k - have a 56k modem, but poor
> > line conditions)
> >
> Do you have a working cell phone? I manage to get around 120K using a
> cell phone connection, previously with Verizon and then later with
> Cingular (I'm stuck with no land line at all for almost 6 months a
> year), might be worth looking into if your cell reception is decent.

It's a good thought - thanks for the suggestion. A friend of mine used
his wireless Internet service at my house, managed 40-50k download
speeds. I currently use a prepaid cell phone because the phone pretty
much stays in the car for emergencies only (cost for the prepaid is
$2.50 a month!)

Dunno if it's worth the price for the increase in speed, though I would
love faster access.

We consider satellite once in a while (package deal with satellite TV
as we have no cable service out where we live, either) but we'd sit
around watching movies and getting fat, then

Usually, when we stay in hotels with high speed access, I'll grab every
module that looks interesting before I go to bed. (Also when I visit
friends with cable internet access)
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On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:50:17 -0500, Lance Berg <emporer DeleteThis @dejazzd.com>
wrote:

>> Multifunction quickslots: Allow multiple items to be dragged to a
>> quickslot. It will attempt to use the first, if that's gone it will
>> use the second and so on. Also an item thus stacked can't be used up
>> from inventory--even if you use the last one you'll still have the
>> item but with a quantity of zero. This means that for things like
>> healing you can just set it up once and not have to ever again worry
>> about binding items to slots.
>>
>This is a bit more of a stretch, something that should be doable in a
>futuristic world, but when you're dealing with little bottles tucked
>into bandoliers or shoved down in pouches or whatever, well, ease of
>access doesn't seem like something you can automate. And when it
>becomes a matter of "well cast heal if I haven't cast it already, or
>drink a heal potion, or use that wand with heal on it, or if none of
>those then its time to try the same with Cure criticals and then...
>well, if you don't have an imp to keep track of all those instructions
>(and I hope he's literal minded) then its even harder to imagine what
>"in game" process you're trying to duplicate.

Actually I was more thinking of putting the CLW, CMW, CSW and CCW
potions together. As well as the Heaing Kit +1, +3, +6 and +10's.

>> Infinite stacking of inventory. In the stores also--when you sell
>> stuff to them it should be stacked. When you attempt to move a stack
>> you get asked how many to move/buy/sell with the default being all.
>
>This looks a lot like your first point as well. But the infinite
>stacking part, well, we're back to game balance issues, they're trying
>to keep you from having infinite carrying capacity. Forget infinite,
>NWN has lots of stuff like potion bottles in stacks of 20, and yet other
>stuff like arrows in stacks of 99. I'm pretty sure you can go in in
>your own modules and make the potions stackable to 99 also if you like,
>already. The smaller stack sizes are there deliberately (although most
>people designing modules probably don't give any thought to whether they
>should change the default stack sizes)

You can use an override file to affect it in all modules, not just
your own. We already have a method of limiting carrying
capacity--weight.

>I think in general the squares issue -is- an attempt to model volume.

It's such a bad one that it's useless.

6 gems take up as much space as a suit of plate mail???

I would be happy with a realistic volume limit.

>> A better variety in the stores. I perfectly well understand the power
>> limits on what's for sale but it's annoying to simply not find
>> anything of a particular type of item to be had with no apparent
>> reason for the exclusion. It's almost always a case of something you
>> already had and thus don't need--but you might want it to equip a
>> henchman with.
>>
>This is entirely up to the module designer, has nothing to do with the
>NWN engine.

True, but there should be some help in the engine for it.

>While in some cases its an oversight, often the choice of
>gear available is actually deliberately limited by the module designer,
>in fact in some of my favorites they deliberately strip your gear off
>before the module starts so they can really control what you're running
>around with. Designing a module where someone who is level 12 with a +3
>sword is going to be just as challenged as someone who's level 12 with a
>+10 sword with keen and haste and on hit: 5d20 hellball is really tricky!

I have no problem with deliberate limits. I have a problem with the
oversights.

>> Better henchman AI:
>> 1) When you're working on a trap they should stay clear!
>
>Just tell em to not pick traps? Unless I misunderstand you, this is
>already in the engine.

No--I'm talking about henchmen coming up and stepping on the trap I'm
working on.

>> 2) The ability to order them to bug out.
>>
>Yeah, that would help a lot. But its more complicated than that, you
>have to tell em which way to run and so on, and unless you want em to
>run smack into a wall, you'll actually have to map out a route for them
>or something? One idea would be to build in the ability to set a "bug
>out to here" point.

Bug out would be disengage, follow me. I think you should be able to
give it to your own character also, it would then apply to all your
henchmen.

>> A loot command.
>>
>For the henchmen?

No. Automatically pick up everything laying around.

>> A scrollbook. All identified scrolls you own automatically go in it.
>> It has tabs to let you quickly find the spell you are looking for. As
>> it stands I've had three bags worth of scrolls. Annoying to store
>> them and a pain to find the one you want.
>
>Yeah it is isn't it? Again I think this is one of those realism issues,
>but here I'm much more willing to sacrifice realism on the altar of
>convenience; any character I've been running for more than a few levels
>ends up with a page or more of scrolls and I end up not using them much
>at all because I can't conveniently see what I have. Other than the
>monster summoning ones that is, the roman numerals make those easy to
>find. Even just better icons on them, or different colors for different
>schools of magic or something...

I think the real-world solution would be to catalog them in a book.
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alordofchaos.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:
> Lance Berg wrote:
>
>>alordofchaos@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>I can't get at it from work (Surf Patrol, argghhhh), but will check it
>>>out when I get home (unfortunately, I live in a rural area so my dialup
>>>download speed will be something like 20k - have a 56k modem, but poor
>>>line conditions)
>>>
>>
>>Do you have a working cell phone? I manage to get around 120K using a
>>cell phone connection, previously with Verizon and then later with
>>Cingular (I'm stuck with no land line at all for almost 6 months a
>>year), might be worth looking into if your cell reception is decent.
>
>
> It's a good thought - thanks for the suggestion. A friend of mine used
> his wireless Internet service at my house, managed 40-50k download
> speeds. I currently use a prepaid cell phone because the phone pretty
> much stays in the car for emergencies only (cost for the prepaid is
> $2.50 a month!)
>
> Dunno if it's worth the price for the increase in speed, though I would
> love faster access.
>
> We consider satellite once in a while (package deal with satellite TV
> as we have no cable service out where we live, either) but we'd sit
> around watching movies and getting fat, then
And whats wrong with that, eh?

>
> Usually, when we stay in hotels with high speed access, I'll grab every
> module that looks interesting before I go to bed. (Also when I visit
> friends with cable internet access)
>
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Loren Pechtel wrote:
> >> 2) The ability to order them to bug out.
> >>
> >Yeah, that would help a lot. But its more complicated than that, you
> >have to tell em which way to run and so on, and unless you want em to
> >run smack into a wall, you'll actually have to map out a route for them
> >or something? One idea would be to build in the ability to set a "bug
> >out to here" point.
>
> Bug out would be disengage, follow me. I think you should be able to
> give it to your own character also, it would then apply to all your henchmen.

Reminds me of another wish list item, which I doubt will be implemented
due to lack of demand

NWN is nice as a turn-based (sort of) real time video type game.

What I'd like to see is a switch or setting that really makes it a
turn-based game, like the PNP version.

After initiative is rolled, I'd like to see a grid overlaying the
scenery. Squares or hexes that can't be travelled (rocks, trees, other
scenery) would be blocked out. you would then have to plot your
character's movement and attack(s) for the next round, as well as that
of your henchman. When you indicate you're done, the grid goes away
and you see your actions carried out, and the computer takes it's turn.

Can't tell you how many times I've gotten stuck on scenery or the
character runs back and forth, drawing attacks of opportunity, before
deciding on a course (when I click a point I want to go to and there is
something in between)
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On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 05:00:14 -0700, "Shawn Wilson"
<ikonoqlast DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote:

>Neverwinter Nights 2 has been announced (a while ago) it will use the 3.5
>rule set (with whatever modifications they see fit).
>
>
>
>What do you most want to see?
>
>
>
>My bigggie is that I want to see all the classes and prestige classes from
>the core books and the four 'Complete..." books. The original has a lame
>and boring selection of PCs. I don't even understand the point of 'Pale
>Master'. It gives some weak ass 'benefits' that even combined with
>Summoning undead don't add up to anything. Better to stick with a straight
>Wizard or Sorcerer.
>
hmm...
well, NWN wasn't to bad. Unfortunatly, i'm so old school that i still
prefer the original rules (meaning the booklets from basic, red, to
immortal, gold). I especially like the fact that mages don't get there
power limited. A magic missile does 1d6 all the way. There is no max
in the number of die that can be used( this is a much better way of
expressing a mages power increase). Having said that, i have been
watching/reading a few interviews with the obsidian developers on
NWN2. according to the one on gamespy, i wouldn't hope to hard on
those prestige classes ( as a side note, it really pissed me off to
hear the head of obsidian talk about how they were "so qualified" to
do RPG's since they had done so many in the past. Like that was going
to cover all the elements left out, they really should get a group of
D&D'ers to consult on D&D games, at least that way they would get some
idea of HOW D&D is supposed to feel when it's played.). I was also
disapointed to hear that they were going to cap the game at 10th
level. Why?? that was the biggest complaint bioware got when they
released the original NWN. Seems someone should have learned from that
one rule.

I have another complaint. If you can create scrolls,wands, and potions
it isn't that much more to create other items. Boots of speed, helms
of briliance, ect. I use the PRC which can be flacky but i like the
extra spells and abilities. I just can't imagine a mage of 10th level
not trying to apply his magecraft to something other than wands.

The biggest hype was a new graphics engine. well, to be honest i'm
willing to take a hit in graphics for expansive playability.

Can you imagine the gazetters being compiled into a NWN's game. That
would be cool (that includes hollow world). Nothing like a alphatian
mage duking it out with a galantrian mage! now there is a mage battle.

my last major "wanna" has to do with psionics (which was the only
reason i even tried AD&D (for those who don't know all the AD&D rules,
that is 1st, and 2nd edition, were TSR's and gary gygax in specific,
attempts to bring realism into the game. What it did was cause rules
monging.suddenly us DM's had to put up with rules lawyers and very
"antiflow" rules. gygax originally was a sandbox player, and you have
to have a rule about everything in a sandbox game. Realism is king in
that medium) while i imagine that difficulties in using psionics, i
think it's a matter of being creative to get it to work. The newest
PRC includes psionics and as best as i can figure all they did was
use/create feats to give psionic results. But i would really like to
see them included.

Most of the interviews i've seen include language like "were trying to
get "back" to the basic idea of how a RPG should work" which bothers
be. It's like saying that bioware really screwed up NWN and they are
the white knight who's going to bring RPG utopia. While NWN wasn't
without problems i still think it was one hell of D&D game.
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