NWN2 Delayed to October

Alex Mars wrote:
> Knight37 wrote:
> > Damn it.
>
> Annoying in one way, but I'd rather it gets more time than be pushed
> out the door too early.
That's always the excuse, but I'd rather they included 'polishing' time
when they give their release dates. I would be soooo fired if I told
my boss 'yeah, I said the project would be ready July 20th, but I
really meant the coding part only, now we have to test, add colors and
sounds, etc.'
99% (I think I'm being generous here) of game release dates are never
met, reading release dates for games is almost like a joke nowadays.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

Hong Ooi wrote:
> On 20 Jul 2006 14:15:12 -0700, "Alex Mars" <Soulclaw.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Knight37 wrote:
> >> Damn it.
> >
> >Annoying in one way, but I'd rather it gets more time than be pushed
> >out the door too early.
>
> I think I'll just wait for it to come out on the Xbox 360.

I think you might have a long wait there.

Speaking of Xbox 360... Mass Effect looks pretty sweet. Could be the
first exclusive RPG for that platform worth picking up, although I'm
going to give Enchanted Arms a chance.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

Quoth The Raven; Knight37 <knight37m DeleteThis @gmail.com> in
<1153500297.664818.312110 DeleteThis @m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
> Hong Ooi wrote:
>> On 20 Jul 2006 14:15:12 -0700, "Alex Mars" <Soulclaw DeleteThis @gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Knight37 wrote:
>> >> Damn it.
>> >
>> >Annoying in one way, but I'd rather it gets more time than be pushed
>> >out the door too early.
>>
>> I think I'll just wait for it to come out on the Xbox 360.
>
> I think you might have a long wait there.
>
> Speaking of Xbox 360... Mass Effect looks pretty sweet. Could be the
> first exclusive RPG for that platform worth picking up, although I'm
> going to give Enchanted Arms a chance.

a mate was talking about this yesterday... 360 game only or on pc too?

--
Remove the _CURSING to reply to me

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 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

Quoth The Raven; Hong Ooi <hong RemoveThis @zipworld.com.au> in
<aki4c2tvfrbp5qhjbnqg0oatkejf30pk32 RemoveThis @4ax.com>
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:22:53 +1000, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay1_CURSING RemoveThis @dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>Quoth The Raven; Knight37 <knight37m RemoveThis @gmail.com> in
>><1153500297.664818.312110 RemoveThis @m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
>>> Hong Ooi wrote:
>>>> On 20 Jul 2006 14:15:12 -0700, "Alex Mars" <Soulclaw RemoveThis @gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >Knight37 wrote:
>>>> >> Damn it.
>>>> >
>>>> >Annoying in one way, but I'd rather it gets more time than be
>>>> >pushed out the door too early.
>>>>
>>>> I think I'll just wait for it to come out on the Xbox 360.
>>>
>>> I think you might have a long wait there.
>>>
>>> Speaking of Xbox 360... Mass Effect looks pretty sweet. Could be the
>>> first exclusive RPG for that platform worth picking up, although I'm
>>> going to give Enchanted Arms a chance.
>>
>>a mate was talking about this yesterday... 360 game only or on pc too?
>
> Bioware also said that Jade Empire was going to be Xbox-exclusive,
> but they eventually released a version for the PC a year or so later.
> So I wouldn't put it past them to do the same with Mass Effect.
>
> Not that this will stop me getting an Xbox 360. I am so Bioware's
> bitch.

lol!

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 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

Not all projects can be completed on time with the first planned go
live date. Unexpected issues happens no matter how much you try to plan
for them. With your logic I guess all those people involved in
developing Vista have been fired ten times over :p

Wolfing wrote:

> That's always the excuse, but I'd rather they included 'polishing' time
> when they give their release dates. I would be soooo fired if I told
> my boss 'yeah, I said the project would be ready July 20th, but I
> really meant the coding part only, now we have to test, add colors and
> sounds, etc.'
> 99% (I think I'm being generous here) of game release dates are never
> met, reading release dates for games is almost like a joke nowadays.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

Olaf wrote:
> Yeah but even if they do, and I am sure they will...there is a huge
> difference, to me anyway, between a PC RPG and a Japanese RPG. If I was
> making a top 10 list, they'd all be PC RPGs. KOTOR would be on it, but that
> is nothing like a JRPG. If I had a top 20 list, I dont know that a JRPG
> would crack it.
>
> olaf

Having never played JRPGs, I'm curious how would you characterize the
differences between them and PC RPGs?
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

Olaf wrote:
> "Knight37" <knight37m.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns980BF1CED4C9Bknight37m@24.93.43.119...
> >
> > I got a 360, hopefully MS will have a better roster of RPGs for it than
> > they did for the Xbox. I've heard they are targeting the Japanese more (in
> > theory) and the Japanese LOVE RPGs, so it would be in MS's best interest
> > to
> > encourage development of them for the 360.
> >
> > But yeah, I would expect a PC version of Mass Effect a year or so after
> > the
> > 360 version releases, based on Bioware's previous track record.
>
> Yeah but even if they do, and I am sure they will...there is a huge
> difference, to me anyway, between a PC RPG and a Japanese RPG. If I was
> making a top 10 list, they'd all be PC RPGs. KOTOR would be on it, but that
> is nothing like a JRPG. If I had a top 20 list, I dont know that a JRPG
> would crack it.
>
> olaf
Funny that you mention it. I had exactly the same opinion, but then
again, I didn't own a PS2.
I got myself a used PS2 and got a bunch of cheap used RPGs to check.
Played FFX of course, but didn't really like it that much. Tried other
titles that I liked more or less, but recently I finished an RPG that I
put right up there in my "tier 1" with the likes of BG2, KoToR,
Oblivion and PS:T. It's Suikoden 3, excellent RPG imho of course, the
best I've played in PS2 and one of the best I've ever played.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

"Knight37" <knight37m DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns980BF1CED4C9Bknight37m@24.93.43.119...
>
> I got a 360, hopefully MS will have a better roster of RPGs for it than
> they did for the Xbox. I've heard they are targeting the Japanese more (in
> theory) and the Japanese LOVE RPGs, so it would be in MS's best interest
> to
> encourage development of them for the 360.
>
> But yeah, I would expect a PC version of Mass Effect a year or so after
> the
> 360 version releases, based on Bioware's previous track record.

Yeah but even if they do, and I am sure they will...there is a huge
difference, to me anyway, between a PC RPG and a Japanese RPG. If I was
making a top 10 list, they'd all be PC RPGs. KOTOR would be on it, but that
is nothing like a JRPG. If I had a top 20 list, I dont know that a JRPG
would crack it.

olaf
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

"Alex Mars" <Soulclaw RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153936042.694743.279500@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Olaf wrote:
>> Yeah but even if they do, and I am sure they will...there is a huge
>> difference, to me anyway, between a PC RPG and a Japanese RPG. If I was
>> making a top 10 list, they'd all be PC RPGs. KOTOR would be on it, but
>> that
>> is nothing like a JRPG. If I had a top 20 list, I dont know that a JRPG
>> would crack it.
>>
>> olaf
>
> Having never played JRPGs, I'm curious how would you characterize the
> differences between them and PC RPGs?

Ok my list:

1) Art style. A lot of JRPGs feature the squatty, big head, big eye
character style. Personally, I detest this. The ones that dont usually go
a different path ala FFX, that kind of a look. I like that better but the
unisex, leather, belt buckle style half the characters are sporting is just
barely a step up.

2) Setting. JRPGs are almost universally more...whimsical? I dont know if
thats the right word but the protagonist is very often a very young child
and there are talking animals, often cutesy animals, present in nearly all
of them. IMO this one goes hand in hand with the above art style thing.
One way to put it might be, these games take themselves a lot less seriously
than your typical PC RPG.

3) More linear. Most JRPGs have very linear plots and characters. Very
rarely do you get to create a character from scratch, as is fairly common in
PC RPGs. Most of the time you can change the names, and thats it. Many are
dialogue heavy but the player almost never has a chance to influence
dialogue, much less the story/plot via dialogue.

4) Inventory. Most of them have less 'toys' for your characters. Less
equipment slots than your typical PC RPG and much less frequent upgrading of
the item types you do get. Many of them do have tons of 'consumables' like
health potions, items to remove negative status effects, etc. Also, they
almost all have something to collect at some point. Pictures. Gemstones.
Etc.

5) Combat pacing. JRPGs love random combat. LOVE. In many of them, you
are expected to level up by 'grinding' xp wandering around seeking random
encounters to power up your party.

5) Combat style. Most are turn based, which to me is a good thing and the
reason I keep trying them so many of them, in the hopes I will find one I
really dig. Not many are as tactical as something like TToEE or the old
gold box games. They are simpler, along the lines of the combat from
Wizardry or the MM games, but with a 3rd person panoramic view of the
'battlefield' instead of a 1st person. Almost all have some kind of a
gimmick. Meters that fill up as your characters take or do damage, allowing
special attacks when full. Team attacks. Combo/hit counters. Some kind of
souped up rock-scissor-paper mechanic. Etc.

Anyway, looking over that list I dont think I did a very good job comparing
the two kinds of games but, man they really do play differently. If you are
at all curious and have some time/money to spare, I recommend getting a PS2
and some of their RPGs, there are literally dozens of highly regarded ones.
Try some. A lot of people like them better than PC RPGs and plenty of
people like both kinds of games just fine.

olaf
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

"Alex Mars" <Soulclaw RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153936042.694743.279500@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Olaf wrote:
>> Yeah but even if they do, and I am sure they will...there is a huge
>> difference, to me anyway, between a PC RPG and a Japanese RPG. If I was
>> making a top 10 list, they'd all be PC RPGs. KOTOR would be on it, but
>> that
>> is nothing like a JRPG. If I had a top 20 list, I dont know that a JRPG
>> would crack it.
>>
>> olaf
>
> Having never played JRPGs, I'm curious how would you characterize the
> differences between them and PC RPGs?

Ok my list:

1) Art style. A lot of JRPGs feature the squatty, big head, big eye
character style. Personally, I detest this. The ones that dont usually go
a different path ala FFX, that kind of a look. I like that better but the
unisex, leather, belt buckle style half the characters are sporting is just
barely a step up.

2) Setting. JRPGs are almost universally more...whimsical? I dont know if
thats the right word but the protagonist is very often a very young child
and there are talking animals, often cutesy animals, present in nearly all
of them. IMO this one goes hand in hand with the above art style thing.
One way to put it might be, these games take themselves a lot less seriously
than your typical PC RPG.

3) More linear. Most JRPGs have very linear plots and characters. Very
rarely do you get to create a character from scratch, as is fairly common in
PC RPGs. Most of the time you can change the names, and thats it. Many are
dialogue heavy but the player almost never has a chance to influence
dialogue, much less the story/plot via dialogue.

4) Inventory. Most of them have less 'toys' for your characters. Less
equipment slots than your typical PC RPG and much less frequent upgrading of
the item types you do get. Many of them do have tons of 'consumables' like
health potions, items to remove negative status effects, etc. Also, they
almost all have something to collect at some point. Pictures. Gemstones.
Etc.

5) Combat pacing. JRPGs love random combat. LOVE. In many of them, you
are expected to level up by 'grinding' xp wandering around seeking random
encounters to power up your party.

5) Combat style. Most are turn based, which to me is a good thing and the
reason I keep trying them so many of them, in the hopes I will find one I
really dig. Not many are as tactical as something like TToEE or the old
gold box games. They are simpler, along the lines of the combat from
Wizardry or the MM games, but with a 3rd person panoramic view of the
'battlefield' instead of a 1st person. Almost all have some kind of a
gimmick. Meters that fill up as your characters take or do damage, allowing
special attacks when full. Team attacks. Combo/hit counters. Some kind of
souped up rock-scissor-paper mechanic. Etc.

Anyway, looking over that list I dont think I did a very good job comparing
the two kinds of games but, man they really do play differently. If you are
at all curious and have some time/money to spare, I recommend getting a PS2
and some of their RPGs, there are literally dozens of highly regarded ones.
Try some. A lot of people like them better than PC RPGs and plenty of
people like both kinds of games just fine.

olaf
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

Olaf wrote:
> "Alex Mars" <Soulclaw.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1153936042.694743.279500@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Olaf wrote:
> >> Yeah but even if they do, and I am sure they will...there is a huge
> >> difference, to me anyway, between a PC RPG and a Japanese RPG. If I was
> >> making a top 10 list, they'd all be PC RPGs. KOTOR would be on it, but
> >> that
> >> is nothing like a JRPG. If I had a top 20 list, I dont know that a JRPG
> >> would crack it.
> >>
> >> olaf
> >
> > Having never played JRPGs, I'm curious how would you characterize the
> > differences between them and PC RPGs?
>
> Ok my list:
>
> 1) Art style. A lot of JRPGs feature the squatty, big head, big eye
> character style. Personally, I detest this. The ones that dont usually go
> a different path ala FFX, that kind of a look. I like that better but the
> unisex, leather, belt buckle style half the characters are sporting is just
> barely a step up.
It all comes from their anime loving. Japanese anime is also full of
the same style, and guess that type of art is taught in Japan in their
schools and colleges, and those artists get to work at game companies'
art department

> 2) Setting. JRPGs are almost universally more...whimsical? I dont know if
> thats the right word but the protagonist is very often a very young child
> and there are talking animals, often cutesy animals, present in nearly all
> of them. IMO this one goes hand in hand with the above art style thing.
> One way to put it might be, these games take themselves a lot less seriously
> than your typical PC RPG.
Right on the spot. Almost all JRPGs I've played, the protagonist is a
17 year old kid, and the 30 year old characters are the 'old ancient
wise guys'. Bleh!

> 3) More linear. Most JRPGs have very linear plots and characters. Very
> rarely do you get to create a character from scratch, as is fairly common in
> PC RPGs. Most of the time you can change the names, and thats it. Many are
> dialogue heavy but the player almost never has a chance to influence
> dialogue, much less the story/plot via dialogue.
I agree and I hate that too in JRPGs. A beautiful example of this
happened to me yesterday playing Suikoden 4. At one point I had the
option of doing something or not. Thinking what I would do in that
situation (I still try to play the RP in RPGs), I chose not to do it.
After selecting it, the game just went back 2 seconds and asked me
again the same question, said 'no' a few more times, and at the end I
said 'yes' and the story continued... nice choice I had! LOL

> 4) Inventory. Most of them have less 'toys' for your characters. Less
> equipment slots than your typical PC RPG and much less frequent upgrading of
> the item types you do get. Many of them do have tons of 'consumables' like
> health potions, items to remove negative status effects, etc. Also, they
> almost all have something to collect at some point. Pictures. Gemstones.
> Etc.
Something you forgot to mention. Many of them have 'character
weapons', meaning, each character uses the same weapon from lvl 1 to
the end, you just 'upgrade it', or in a similar way, you only use that
style of weapons. So from a copper curved sword you may upgrade to a
bronze one, then iron then steel then diamond, etc. But that character
will only use curved swords, while another character may use a wand,
and another may use a wind fan. Also, weapons are not realistic
whatsoever. You'll find characters using puppets, balloons, bubble
gum, etc. as their character weapons, and even the 'realistic' ones
(i.e. swords, axes) are waaay too big, bigger than the character
wielding them.

> 5) Combat pacing. JRPGs love random combat. LOVE. In many of them, you
> are expected to level up by 'grinding' xp wandering around seeking random
> encounters to power up your party.
Yes, it's funny but since I don't love random combat, I try to minimize
it as much as possible, only going for the story, and sometimes just
escaping from many random encounters. Then when I find a difficult
boss, I check a hint website to see how to beat them, and many times I
find things like 'this boss is easy, it only does 500 damage to your
party with this attack, and 2000 damage to a character with this other
attack' then I check my characters and they're all under 500 health
Then I keep reading the site and they say 'I was lvl 70 when I did it'
and realize I'm only 32 or something. But interestingly enough, I've
managed to beat those bosses after a few attempts, mostly with skill
and luck.

> 5) Combat style. Most are turn based, which to me is a good thing and the
> reason I keep trying them so many of them, in the hopes I will find one I
> really dig. Not many are as tactical as something like TToEE or the old
> gold box games. They are simpler, along the lines of the combat from
> Wizardry or the MM games, but with a 3rd person panoramic view of the
> 'battlefield' instead of a 1st person. Almost all have some kind of a
> gimmick. Meters that fill up as your characters take or do damage, allowing
> special attacks when full. Team attacks. Combo/hit counters. Some kind of
> souped up rock-scissor-paper mechanic. Etc.
Yep, that's the only reason that made me buy a PS2 and start playing
them, turn based games are pretty much dead in PC and have been dead
for years and years. It's still alive and kicking in PS2.

You also forgot to mention the mini-games. JRPGs are FULL of them, they
all include some sort of card games, dice games, racing games, even
soccer clones like in FFX. I don't know why they do that. If I wanted
to play any of those games I'd buy a game that concentrates on that
*shrug*

> Anyway, looking over that list I dont think I did a very good job comparing
> the two kinds of games but, man they really do play differently. If you are
> at all curious and have some time/money to spare, I recommend getting a PS2
> and some of their RPGs, there are literally dozens of highly regarded ones.
> Try some. A lot of people like them better than PC RPGs and plenty of
> people like both kinds of games just fine.
> olaf
Do what I did. A couple of months ago I went to Ebay and got myself a
used PS2 for $75 S&H included, or buy a new one for like $130. Then go
to ebworld.com and browse their used RPG section for real cheapo games,
each going for about $7-$19.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

Olaf wrote:
> "Alex Mars" <Soulclaw.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1153936042.694743.279500@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Olaf wrote:
> >> Yeah but even if they do, and I am sure they will...there is a huge
> >> difference, to me anyway, between a PC RPG and a Japanese RPG. If I was
> >> making a top 10 list, they'd all be PC RPGs. KOTOR would be on it, but
> >> that
> >> is nothing like a JRPG. If I had a top 20 list, I dont know that a JRPG
> >> would crack it.
> >>
> >> olaf
> >
> > Having never played JRPGs, I'm curious how would you characterize the
> > differences between them and PC RPGs?
>
> Ok my list:
>
> 1) Art style. A lot of JRPGs feature the squatty, big head, big eye
> character style. Personally, I detest this. The ones that dont usually go
> a different path ala FFX, that kind of a look. I like that better but the
> unisex, leather, belt buckle style half the characters are sporting is just
> barely a step up.
>
> 2) Setting. JRPGs are almost universally more...whimsical? I dont know if
> thats the right word but the protagonist is very often a very young child
> and there are talking animals, often cutesy animals, present in nearly all
> of them. IMO this one goes hand in hand with the above art style thing.
> One way to put it might be, these games take themselves a lot less seriously
> than your typical PC RPG.
>
> 3) More linear. Most JRPGs have very linear plots and characters. Very
> rarely do you get to create a character from scratch, as is fairly common in
> PC RPGs. Most of the time you can change the names, and thats it. Many are
> dialogue heavy but the player almost never has a chance to influence
> dialogue, much less the story/plot via dialogue.
>
> 4) Inventory. Most of them have less 'toys' for your characters. Less
> equipment slots than your typical PC RPG and much less frequent upgrading of
> the item types you do get. Many of them do have tons of 'consumables' like
> health potions, items to remove negative status effects, etc. Also, they
> almost all have something to collect at some point. Pictures. Gemstones.
> Etc.
>
> 5) Combat pacing. JRPGs love random combat. LOVE. In many of them, you
> are expected to level up by 'grinding' xp wandering around seeking random
> encounters to power up your party.
>
> 5) Combat style. Most are turn based, which to me is a good thing and the
> reason I keep trying them so many of them, in the hopes I will find one I
> really dig. Not many are as tactical as something like TToEE or the old
> gold box games. They are simpler, along the lines of the combat from
> Wizardry or the MM games, but with a 3rd person panoramic view of the
> 'battlefield' instead of a 1st person. Almost all have some kind of a
> gimmick. Meters that fill up as your characters take or do damage, allowing
> special attacks when full. Team attacks. Combo/hit counters. Some kind of
> souped up rock-scissor-paper mechanic. Etc.
>
> Anyway, looking over that list I dont think I did a very good job comparing
> the two kinds of games but, man they really do play differently. If you are
> at all curious and have some time/money to spare, I recommend getting a PS2
> and some of their RPGs, there are literally dozens of highly regarded ones.
> Try some. A lot of people like them better than PC RPGs and plenty of
> people like both kinds of games just fine.
>
> olaf

OK, thanks for the info, I'll stick with PC RPGs. The anime art styles
alone would drive me mad.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October 

Alex Mars wrote:
> Olaf wrote:
> > Yeah but even if they do, and I am sure they will...there is a huge
> > difference, to me anyway, between a PC RPG and a Japanese RPG. If I was
> > making a top 10 list, they'd all be PC RPGs. KOTOR would be on it, but that
> > is nothing like a JRPG. If I had a top 20 list, I dont know that a JRPG
> > would crack it.
> >
> > olaf
>
> Having never played JRPGs, I'm curious how would you characterize the
> differences between them and PC RPGs?

Simply put

JRPGs = Opposite of Fallout II.

- Justisaur
Fallout II = Best RPG of all time, Including any conceivable future.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 Delayed to October