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Movie Review: 300

 
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Zimri

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Since: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 35



(Msg. 16) Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Movie Review: 300 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"keifer113@gmail.com":
> postscript: What I think will be amusing is the interpetation that
> will be given to the film in light of today's political stage. I have
> heard that in Europe people walked out on the film because they were
> outraged by the "message", while some people have likened George Bush
> to both Leonidas and Xerxes. I don't believe you can make an issue of
> the story with today's world....you could do the same with Lord of the
> Rings and many other tales.

I figured that 300's politics track closely to those of Heinlein: honour (of
men and women), duty (of ditto), the state as equivalent to society, and the
soldier as the rightful primary caste of the state. Mind you, Heinlein owed
much of his politics to his study of the classics. Full circle.

300 doesn't follow the politics of any party in any modern democracy I know
of; not since Theodore Roosevelt anyway. There are individuals in both
parties who might understand 300; Jim Webb and John McCain come to mind in
the Senate.

I had some major problems with this movie.

-Two of the evil emissaries of the Great King were subSaharan African.
Cambyses, a few decades prior, had been thrown right OUT of Nubia and lost
his life soon after (murder? madness?). Those emissaries gave the movie too
much of a "white power" expression. If the Great King's messengers had to be
exotic, then they should have been high-caste Indian or Central Asian; if
the movie required Africans, then they should have been sneaking gold to the
anti-Persian Greeks.

-The Spartan regime was whitewashed far too much. Steven "Gates of Fire"
Pressfield was able to show warts-n-all; what can't Miller and Snyder?

-The Spartan allies were almost ignored. By now I've grown wearily used to
stories about the "300" which ignore the other 700 Thespians. But editing
Themistocles and all his Athenians out of the Battle of Artemision - which
is a storm in the movie - was just stupid. What if we had a battle and
nobody showed up, indeed. Again, Pressfield was able to keep the focus on
the 300 while giving the others credit where it was due.

-That trope about the Spartans (rather than Athenians and Ionians) fighting
for "reason" against Eastern obscurantism was anachronistic enough the first
time it came up. It became an absolute joke after the Persians brought in
some sparkly firecrackers to launch against the Spartan shields, and the
narrator described it as "sorcery". When they release this movie in China
they are going to fit those scenes with a laugh track.

The movie was pretty to look at, and I suppose we have to start somewhere if
we are to educate our generation in why Thermopylae, and the ancient Greeks
in general, matter to us. But it could have been done so much better.

--
zimriel sbc dot
at global net
..
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimriel/
*new improved shorter .sig*

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David Alex Lamb

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Since: Jun 05, 2005
Posts: 741



(Msg. 17) Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:40 pm
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In article <1173648875.371292.218660.TakeThisOut@c51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
keifer113.TakeThisOut@gmail.com <Keifer113.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think it's a stretch to cast the US as the Spartans and the traitors
>> as our NATO allies. The US wasn't exactly dragged kicking and screaming
>> into an invasion and our elite troops are comprised of our slave caste.
>> If you doubt it then compare the number of recruiters per capita in
>> Scottsdale, AZ to the number in the west valley. (I was going to use
>> Beverly Hills and Compton, but that would have resulted in an
>> unnecessary tangent.)
>
>Slave caste?

I believe he is (a) uncaring of how offensive his terminology might be and (b)
referring to American blacks, who apparently comprise the majority of the
troops in Iraq.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)

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tussock

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Since: Apr 28, 2004
Posts: 1014



(Msg. 18) Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:56 am
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David Alex Lamb wrote:
> keifer113 RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
>> none wrote:
>>> I think it's a stretch to cast the US as the Spartans and the traitors
>>> as our NATO allies. The US wasn't exactly dragged kicking and screaming
>>> into an invasion and our elite troops are comprised of our slave caste.
>>> If you doubt it then compare the number of recruiters per capita in
>>> Scottsdale, AZ to the number in the west valley. (I was going to use
>>> Beverly Hills and Compton, but that would have resulted in an
>>> unnecessary tangent.)
>> Slave caste?
>
> I believe he is (a) uncaring of how offensive his terminology might be and (b)
> referring to American blacks, who apparently comprise the majority of the
> troops in Iraq.

More to the poor who fill the "reserves" of the US war machine, I'd
imagine. The fact that non-anglos are disproportionately poor throughout
the old empire is somewhat of a side note when it comes to the modern
castes.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
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criticallythinking

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Since: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 19) Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:49 am
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If you think this film, and the History Channel documentary, are not
tied to the current "political climate", you haven't been keeping
track of Hollywood's record of muslim bashing.

Believe what you will, but the "liberal" movie industry is firmly in
tow with our president's perversion of the "war on terror".

Inquisitive people should wonder why.



> postscript: What I think will be amusing is the interpetation that
> will be given to the film in light of today's political stage. I have
> heard that in Europe people walked out on the film because they were
> outraged by the "message", while some people have likened George Bush
> to both Leonidas and Xerxes. I don't believe you can make an issue of
> the story with today's world....you could do the same with Lord of the
> Rings and many other tales.
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Sea Wasp

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Since: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 175



(Msg. 20) Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Movie Review: 300 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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criticallythinking DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> If you think this film, and the History Channel documentary, are not
> tied to the current "political climate", you haven't been keeping
> track of Hollywood's record of muslim bashing.
>
> Believe what you will, but the "liberal" movie industry is firmly in
> tow with our president's perversion of the "war on terror".

Actually, the movie industry couldn't care less about that.

They're interested in what makes money. If muslims become the "in"
thing next week, they'll have seventeen new films on Muslim heroes in
the works by the week after next. (of course, they'll all come out two
years later, so whether they actually hit the trend or not will be in
question.




--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
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none

External


Since: Feb 28, 2007
Posts: 32



(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:28 pm
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> ]Let me sum up your arguments: (1) Saddam deserved all the publicity
> ]he received from Hollywood and the History Channel, (2) there are more
> ]than just anti-Muslim-World and anti-Nazi pieces on the History
> ]Channel, and (3) "300" was just about kicking Persian butt, and (4)
> ]I'm stupid.
>
> They aren't arguments. They are facts.
>
> A fact isn't anti-anything, unless the group that the fact is about,
> doesn't like the fact being mentioned.

1) The word "deserved" is an opinion statement, not a statement of fact.
It's my opinion that Bush *Senior* was 10 years too late. I see
preventing genocide and protecting the national sovereignty of other
nations as the only moral reasons to wage war. I doubt the national
sovereignty of Kuwait was anything other than the pretense under which a
Texas family with strong Saudi ties contrived to elevate oil prices. I
have many opinions, some of which are more defensible than others.

2) I find the History Channel to be topical and balanced. History lends
itself well to objective treatment. Source material and events presented
in good faith are not inherently "anti-" or "pro-" anything. Critical
thinking should be the responsibility of the viewer. That is my opinion.

3) What is your source? I'll be interested in viewing the commentaries
when the DVD comes out. I don't doubt that it's just an action flick
without any additional agenda. That's the way it's being sold, at least.
The fact that it has a historical basis makes comparisons inevitable,
whether those comparisons are appropriate or intentional... or not.

4) Ad hominem attacks are unbecoming.

Chris
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D.J.

External


Since: Oct 28, 2007
Posts: 186



(Msg. 22) Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:31 pm
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On 12 Mar 2007 17:14:39 -0700, criticallythinking DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
]Let me sum up your arguments: (1) Saddam deserved all the publicity
]he received from Hollywood and the History Channel, (2) there are more
]than just anti-Muslim-World and anti-Nazi pieces on the History
]Channel, and (3) "300" was just about kicking Persian butt, and (4)
]I'm stupid.

They aren't arguments. They are facts.

A fact isn't anti-anything, unless the group that the fact is about,
doesn't like the fact being mentioned.

]You're so convincing, I'm sure there must be no anti-Muslim/Persian
]sentiment in Hollywood, and it surely has nothing to do with Israel.
]Well done Jimbo, LOL

The Israelis don't run things. The Illuminati do. Get your paranoia
fixed, it is aimed at the wrong group.

JimP.
--
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/testy/ March 9, 2007 1E AD&D blog
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ March 2, 2007: Drive-In movie theatres
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ poetry blog Feb 15, 2007
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Keifer113

External


Since: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 12



(Msg. 23) Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:05 pm
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On Mar 11, 6:40 pm, dal... DeleteThis @qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb) wrote:
> In article <1173648875.371292.218... DeleteThis @c51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>
> keifer... DeleteThis @gmail.com <Keifer... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I think it's a stretch to cast the US as the Spartans and the traitors
> >> as our NATO allies. The US wasn't exactly dragged kicking and screaming
> >> into an invasion and our elite troops are comprised of our slave caste.
> >> If you doubt it then compare the number of recruiters per capita in
> >> Scottsdale, AZ to the number in the west valley. (I was going to use
> >> Beverly Hills and Compton, but that would have resulted in an
> >> unnecessary tangent.)
>
> >Slave caste?
>
> I believe he is (a) uncaring of how offensive his terminology might be and (b)
> referring to American blacks, who apparently comprise the majority of the
> troops in Iraq.
> --
> "Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)

Thats an odd statement, when only 26% of the Army is black. The
Marines are only 15%, and the reserves do not have a higher
proportion.

Are there alot of soldiers who come from lower class
backgrounds...well, yes, its always been that way except when a
soldier had to furnish his own arms. Many of them are seeking to earn
college money to keep the burdern off their parents or seeking job
skills. It doesn;t mean they come from a slave caste....

So sad to see delusional people.
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~consul

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Since: Jun 09, 2004
Posts: 337



(Msg. 24) Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:49 pm
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Justisaur wrote:
> On Mar 9, 2:29 pm, No 33 Secretary <terry.notaniceper....RemoveThis@gmail.com>
>> Taste vary, I suppose. The visual look of the ads is the reason I
>> won't be bothering with it in the theater. Looks too comic-booky to
>> me. The rest of your review inclines me to catch it on DVD, so long
>> as somebody else buys it.

That's why I will probably like it. The comic book look, not that it was
to spite you. Smile

> One thing that really bothered me in the trailers was the...
> inhuman... look of some of what I assume were the Persians. I wonder
> if this is what the Europeans were being bothered by?

I heard Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is putting out a hit

> The visual style and the look of those... people... really put off my
> wife, so she isn't going to want to see it which means I probably
> won't see it.

I haven't seen it yet, but I thought it was just the "special forces"
that looked weird.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here,
at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
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~consul

External


Since: Jun 09, 2004
Posts: 337



(Msg. 25) Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:54 pm
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Terry Austin wrote:
> "keifer113@gmail.com" <Keifer113.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in
>> On Mar 9, 8:06 pm, D.J. <alphmo....RemoveThis@cableone.net> wrote:
>>> On 9 Mar 2007 16:59:01 -0800, "Justisaur" <justis....RemoveThis@gmail.com>
>>> ](and I've often wondered why it hasn't been handled before in film),
>>> Actuallly, it was handled years ago in film in the 1960s
>>> http://imdb.com/title/tt0055719/
>> Miller used that movie as the inspiration for the tale.
> Well, that, and historical accounts.

Don't most folks think suspect of those sources (ancient greeks), given
how they also talked about Atlantis?
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here,
at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
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D.J.

External


Since: Oct 28, 2007
Posts: 186



(Msg. 26) Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:03 pm
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On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:54:46 -0700, ~consul
<consul.DeleteThis@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> wrote:
]Don't most folks think suspect of those sources (ancient greeks), given
]how they also talked about Atlantis?

The story of Atlantis was mostly fiction, with the volcano at
Santorini now believed to be what Atlantis was based on:
http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/europe_west_asia/santorini.html

JimP.
--
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/testy/ March 9, 2007 1E AD&D blog
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ March 2, 2007: Drive-In movie theatres
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ poetry blog Feb 15, 2007
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No 33 Secretary

External


Since: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 234



(Msg. 27) Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:58 pm
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~consul <consul RemoveThis @INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> wrote in
news:et79p2$9eb$1@gist.usc.edu:

> Justisaur wrote:
>> On Mar 9, 2:29 pm, No 33 Secretary
>> <terry.notaniceper... RemoveThis @gmail.com>
>>> Taste vary, I suppose. The visual look of the ads is the
>>> reason I won't be bothering with it in the theater. Looks too
>>> comic-booky to me. The rest of your review inclines me to
>>> catch it on DVD, so long as somebody else buys it.
>
> That's why I will probably like it. The comic book look, not
> that it was to spite you. Smile

Either is a perfectly good reason. Both would be even better. Cake
*and* icing.

--
"What is the first law?"
"To Protect."
"And the second?"
"Ourselves."

Terry Austin
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No 33 Secretary

External


Since: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 234



(Msg. 28) Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:15 pm
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~consul <consul.RemoveThis@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> wrote in
news:et7a3r$9gr$1@gist.usc.edu:

> Terry Austin wrote:
>> "keifer113@gmail.com" <Keifer113.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> On Mar 9, 8:06 pm, D.J. <alphmo....RemoveThis@cableone.net> wrote:
>>>> On 9 Mar 2007 16:59:01 -0800, "Justisaur"
>>>> <justis....RemoveThis@gmail.com>
>>>> ](and I've often wondered why it hasn't been handled before
>>>> ]in film),
>>>> Actuallly, it was handled years ago in film in the 1960s
>>>> http://imdb.com/title/tt0055719/
>>> Miller used that movie as the inspiration for the tale.
>> Well, that, and historical accounts.
>
> Don't most folks think suspect of those sources (ancient
> greeks), given how they also talked about Atlantis?

Most folks don't think. At all. Scientist types, however, have a
fairly rigorous set of rules by which they pursue their field.

--
"What is the first law?"
"To Protect."
"And the second?"
"Ourselves."

Terry Austin
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Shawn Roske

External


Since: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 111



(Msg. 29) Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:15 pm
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No 33 Secretary wrote:
> ~consul <consul.DeleteThis@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> wrote in
> news:et7a3r$9gr$1@gist.usc.edu:
>
>> Terry Austin wrote:
>>> "keifer113@gmail.com" <Keifer113.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> On Mar 9, 8:06 pm, D.J. <alphmo....DeleteThis@cableone.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 9 Mar 2007 16:59:01 -0800, "Justisaur"
>>>>> <justis....DeleteThis@gmail.com>
>>>>> ](and I've often wondered why it hasn't been handled before
>>>>> ]in film),
>>>>> Actuallly, it was handled years ago in film in the 1960s
>>>>> http://imdb.com/title/tt0055719/
>>>> Miller used that movie as the inspiration for the tale.
>>> Well, that, and historical accounts.
>> Don't most folks think suspect of those sources (ancient
>> greeks), given how they also talked about Atlantis?
>
> Most folks don't think. At all. Scientist types, however, have a
> fairly rigorous set of rules by which they pursue their field.
>

all hail the holy peer review, never mind the corporate grants.
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No 33 Secretary

External


Since: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 234



(Msg. 30) Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:40 pm
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Shawn Roske <fh439.DeleteThis@NOSPAM.ncf.ca> wrote in news:et7blm$i1n$1
@theodyn.ncf.ca:

> No 33 Secretary wrote:
>> ~consul <consul.DeleteThis@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> wrote in
>> news:et7a3r$9gr$1@gist.usc.edu:
>>
>>> Terry Austin wrote:
>>>> "keifer113@gmail.com" <Keifer113.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> On Mar 9, 8:06 pm, D.J. <alphmo....DeleteThis@cableone.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 9 Mar 2007 16:59:01 -0800, "Justisaur"
>>>>>> <justis....DeleteThis@gmail.com>
>>>>>> ](and I've often wondered why it hasn't been handled before
>>>>>> ]in film),
>>>>>> Actuallly, it was handled years ago in film in the 1960s
>>>>>> http://imdb.com/title/tt0055719/
>>>>> Miller used that movie as the inspiration for the tale.
>>>> Well, that, and historical accounts.
>>> Don't most folks think suspect of those sources (ancient
>>> greeks), given how they also talked about Atlantis?
>>
>> Most folks don't think. At all. Scientist types, however, have a
>> fairly rigorous set of rules by which they pursue their field.
>>
>
> all hail the holy peer review, never mind the corporate grants.
>
You object to the scientific method? Perhaps you should go hunt
dinner with a sharp stick.

--
"What is the first law?"
"To Protect."
"And the second?"
"Ourselves."

Terry Austin
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