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richard d

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Since: May 02, 2006
Posts: 99



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:04 am
Post subject: Monster Summoning
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>dnd (more info?)

Once upon a time (back in 2nd ed - sorry if I'm repeating myself),
Monster summoning spells weren't just to get yourself some extra
fighting power. For what appears to me to be not a very good reason we
have lost that versatility in 3rd ed.

The reason, it seems to me, that this has gone wrong is the change in
the definition of a round from 1 minute to 6 seconds. When it was 1
minute, 1 minute of doing other things for you equalled 1 round of
fighting, so a 5th level MU doing Monster Summoning I would get a
creature for 7 minutes or 7 rounds of combat. 7 minutes is a useful
amount of time in which to get a creature to perform some service.

In 3rd ed, the only option would have been to say 1 round per level if
in combat or 1 minute per level if not. Looks to me like the designers
decided instead to just make it 1 round per level and took away the
spell's versatility.

I think this was a sad loss. I would suggest re-introducing the 1
minute per level duration if the summoned creature is not fighting for
you. Any thoughts?

Richard

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Justisaur

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Since: Jun 08, 2005
Posts: 1864



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:53 am
Post subject: Re: Monster Summoning [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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richard d wrote:
> Once upon a time (back in 2nd ed - sorry if I'm repeating myself),
> Monster summoning spells weren't just to get yourself some extra
> fighting power. For what appears to me to be not a very good reason we
> have lost that versatility in 3rd ed.
>
> The reason, it seems to me, that this has gone wrong is the change in
> the definition of a round from 1 minute to 6 seconds. When it was 1
> minute, 1 minute of doing other things for you equalled 1 round of
> fighting, so a 5th level MU doing Monster Summoning I would get a
> creature for 7 minutes or 7 rounds of combat. 7 minutes is a useful
> amount of time in which to get a creature to perform some service.
>
> In 3rd ed, the only option would have been to say 1 round per level if
> in combat or 1 minute per level if not. Looks to me like the designers
> decided instead to just make it 1 round per level and took away the
> spell's versatility.
>
> I think this was a sad loss. I would suggest re-introducing the 1
> minute per level duration if the summoned creature is not fighting for
> you. Any thoughts?
>

I miss the longer durations myself, and interestingly most of the CRPGs
have you limited to one creature, but with a very long duration.
Summons are not very useful because of the short duration at low level
either. At 1st lv, I spend a full round summoning a badger, so it
appears just before my next action a round later, the battle might be
over by then. And then it has just enough time to appear, attack and
pop out of existance.

There is a serious concern though if you lengthen summon durations, and
that is that a caster could summon up a cadre of monsters before hand
and basically 'do' a module in one very short swoop.

If you put a limit on the number of summons one can have at a time it
would become less problematic.

At a 1r/lv limit it becomes a much more situational, and battle
specific, a tactical decision, not a strategic one.

- Justisaur

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Jasin Zujovic

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Since: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 1923



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Monster Summoning [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <1148303073.385765.136160 RemoveThis @i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
richard RemoveThis @skaro.demon.co.uk says...

> I think this was a sad loss. I would suggest re-introducing the 1
> minute per level duration if the summoned creature is not fighting for
> you. Any thoughts?

That's not a bad idea.

It's might be a bit of a can of worms (what happens if you summon
someone to help you with a non-combat task, and you get attacked while
the spell lasts...?), but with a group that isn't averse to the certain
arbitrariness that will arise from the DM having to judge whether
borderline uses are combat or non-combat, it should be fine.


--
Jasin Zujovic
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Hadsil

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Since: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 484



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 10:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Monster Summoning [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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The Planar Ally and Planar Binding spells (and Gate) pretty much take
care of what you are asking. Not that what you are asking is "wrong"
but rather it can already be done.

Gerald Katz
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Werebat

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Since: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 1572



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Post subject: Re: Monster Summoning [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Hadsil wrote:
> The Planar Ally and Planar Binding spells (and Gate) pretty much take
> care of what you are asking. Not that what you are asking is "wrong"
> but rather it can already be done.

Yep.

- Ron ^*^
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