Mirage Development Diary

On Jan 21, 2:53 am, rsals....RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
>
> The other is a description of the display model I have
> chosen to use as a basis for the game, and why I have chosen to use
> it.

A layered tilemap is a very effective display model. It is also
useful to:
1) Allow the different layers to scroll independently
2) Allow the different layers to be different sizes.

This way you can have absolute-position layers to draw UI elements
onto.

A lot of video game hardware uses this abstraction, though due to
hardware issues, with fixed number of layers and fixed map sizes. As
a result, POWDER uses such a layered display abstraction which I found
very versatile.

My layers, in order of priority:
1) Text
2) Overlay. Cursors, shadow tiles are drawn here. Also used for the
minimap when it is up.
3) Mobs and items.
4) Terrain.

I don't put mobs and items on a separate layer for the reason you
cite, however. It is trivial to update your old terrain tile when the
mob moves off. Indeed, you might as well just regenerate all of your
layers every step. The real reason to put them on a separate layer is
so you can get alpha blending to show what people are standing on.

Borrowing further from the 2d display engines, you should also
consider allowing for freely positionable sprites that are independent
of any layer mapping.
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
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On Jan 21, 2:16 am, Krice <pau... DeleteThis @mbnet.fi> wrote:

> Oh dear.. Those clouds are very important feature I guess.
> Worth making the entire gameplay realtime.
> I just so want to see what is going to happen to this
> project..

The clouds weren't the driving force behind my design decision to move
real-time. I think a real-time system will be interesting and play
vastly different than a normal roguelike.

> Layered map is not a 3D game world.

You are correct it is not. My post was about the way I represent my
tiles inside my program. I store them in a three-dimensional array.
The world is still drawn two-dimensionally.
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On Jan 21, 2:16 am, Krice <pau....DeleteThis@mbnet.fi> wrote:
> On 21 tammi, 09:53, rsals....DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > clouds will float by overhead, area
> > of effect spells will have real-time effects, and projectiles can be
> > shot and dodged.
>
> Oh dear.. Those clouds are very important feature I guess.
> Worth making the entire gameplay realtime.
> I just so want to see what is going to happen to this
> project..

Krice, you might be the biggest troll currently active on rgrd.
Slag off.
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Maxy-B kirjoitti:
> Krice, you might be the biggest troll currently active on rgrd.

Maybe, but I also know something about roguelike development...
Let's see what happens. Of course I hope he can make a playable,
fun roguelike. The "signs" are just not too promising I'm afraid.
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On 21 tammi, 19:26, rsals....TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
> I think a real-time system will be interesting and play
> vastly different than a normal roguelike.

You never know. It's going to remove careful tactical
gameplay I guess, so it's more like Diablo then.
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On Jan 21, 3:25 pm, Krice <pau....RemoveThis@mbnet.fi> wrote:
>
> Maybe, but I also know something about roguelike development...
> Let's see what happens. Of course I hope he can make a playable,
> fun roguelike. The "signs" are just not too promising I'm afraid.

I can appreciate constructive criticism, but plain old normal
criticism doesn't help at me all. I'd be curious to know what the
"signs" are, so that I could shift my focus or change something early
on. I've been working on the game for only a few days now and already
have some real-time stuff going on. Specifically, creatures are moving
around independently, there is collision detection between the player
and creatures, and some initial projectile code with collision
detection as well. I haven't begun to write anything for the "clouds"
you dislike so much, and it's last on my feature list for getting a
playable game up and running. It might be something I do quick just as
a proof of concept however, since I want to extrapolate the "cloud"
behavior into poison clouds inside dungeons (among other gameplay
related features).

If the worry is primarily that I don't have what it takes, I'd like to
point out that I've been the lead engineer on three commercial games
just in the past year, and have assisted with several others. Sorry if
I'm getting a little defensive, but the bleeding criticism is
disheartening. I'm working within a framework that I know, so initial
development should come quickly.

It will remove careful tactical gameplay from the equation, but only
to a certain extent. It certainly won't be a completely twitch game
like Diablo, but it will share some similar attributes. I'm also
building the system so that if real-time just isn't working then it
should be trivial to turn real-time off so that it can be turn based.
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On Jan 21, 7:51 pm, konijn_ <kon... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So, where will you get your graphics from ?
> Will we be able to steal your graphics ( as you will find out, many of us are
> super man programmers but could not draw a stick man to save our lives, which is
> why we cant write a godlike roguelike ) ?

Currently the plan is to use straight text instead of actual graphical
elements. The engine is generic enough that graphical display could be
added somewhere down the line if I think it is necessary.
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On Jan 21, 5:59 pm, rsals....TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 21, 3:25 pm, Krice <pau....TakeThisOut@mbnet.fi> wrote:
>
> > Maybe, but I also know something about roguelike development...
> > Let's see what happens. Of course I hope he can make a playable,
> > fun roguelike. The "signs" are just not too promising I'm afraid.
>
> I can appreciate constructive criticism, but plain old normal
> criticism doesn't help at me all. I'd be curious to know what the
> "signs" are, so that I could shift my focus or change something early
> on. I've been working on the game for only a few days now and already
> have some real-time stuff going on.

Please pardon Krice's reaction. The signs he refers to are exactly
what you describe: having worked on the game for a few days and having
already spent so many words talking about it. It is a very common
motif to see eager excited development that peters out into
vapourware. After enough years watching this sad pattern, one becomes
jaded and disheartened.

I look forward to you breaking this pattern. Talk less. Code more :>
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
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On Jan 21, 8:30 pm, Jeff Lait <torespondisfut....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I look forward to you breaking this pattern. Talk less. Code more :>

Thank you for your support, I'll do my best to break the pattern.

If anyone is curious, I updated my developer diary on some specifics
to why I chose to go real-time instead of turn-based (http://
miragedev.blogspot.com/2008/01/why-real-time.html). I've also included
a snapshot of the game right now that show cases a few of the things
that I've been working on. It showcases a cloud that I know Krice will
love, and an enemy about to get hit by a projectile.
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On 22 tammi, 00:59, rsals....RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
> I'd be curious to know what the "signs" are

You throw in couple of features and "new" idea to
turn the gameplay to real-time, to create living
breathing world (yeah, like that's going to do that
all by itself).

> I'd like to point out that I've been the lead engineer
> on three commercial games just in the past year

Here we are not "lead engineers" or anything like that,
we leave fancy titles and become brothers.
Brothers of true metal.
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On Jan 22, 12:45 am, Krice <pau....TakeThisOut@mbnet.fi> wrote:
> On 22 tammi, 00:59, rsals....TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I'd be curious to know what the "signs" are
>
> You throw in couple of features and "new" idea to
> turn the gameplay to real-time, to create living
> breathing world (yeah, like that's going to do that
> all by itself).
>
> > I'd like to point out that I've been the lead engineer
> > on three commercial games just in the past year
>
> Here we are not "lead engineers" or anything like that,
> we leave fancy titles and become brothers.
> Brothers of true metal.

I only mentioned that I was a lead engineer to bring light to the fact
that I've seen multiple real world projects from start to finish. This
means I know what it takes to get not only a game done, done on time,
and done to specification. Since this is my project, I can take me
time on it, make the decisions I want to make, and make the game that
I want to make. I may be new to the RL community, but that doesn't
mean that I'm completely green when it comes to software development.
I wasn't saying that since I've done commercial games that I'm somehow
better than anyone here, I was just stating it to show that I have
what it takes to create a game and that I have nothing to prove to
you. As far as I can tell you haven't successfully created a RL
either, so we may be in the same boat.

I'd be more than happy at this point to talk about my game, instead of
responding to your unabashed criticism. I can understand why you are
skeptical, but that doesn't mean you have to project it onto me with
absolutely nothing constructive to say. If you truly want to become
"brothers" then start acting like one.
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On 22 tammi, 08:58, rsals... RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
> I was just stating it to show that I have what it takes
> to create a game and that I have nothing to prove to you.

You can prove me that I was wrong:)
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On Jan 22, 7:58 pm, rsals....DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 22, 12:45 am, Krice <pau....DeleteThis@mbnet.fi> wrote:
>
> > On 22 tammi, 00:59, rsals....DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > I'd be curious to know what the "signs" are
>
> > You throw in couple of features and "new" idea to
> > turn the gameplay to real-time, to create living
> > breathing world (yeah, like that's going to do that
> > all by itself).
>
> > > I'd like to point out that I've been the lead engineer
> > > on three commercial games just in the past year
>
> > Here we are not "lead engineers" or anything like that,
> > we leave fancy titles and become brothers.
> > Brothers of true metal.
>
> I only mentioned that I was a lead engineer to bring light to the fact
> that I've seen multiple real world projects from start to finish. This
> means I know what it takes to get not only a game done, done on time,
> and done to specification. Since this is my project, I can take me
> time on it, make the decisions I want to make, and make the game that
> I want to make. I may be new to the RL community, but that doesn't
> mean that I'm completely green when it comes to software development.
> I wasn't saying that since I've done commercial games that I'm somehow
> better than anyone here, I was just stating it to show that I have
> what it takes to create a game and that I have nothing to prove to
> you. As far as I can tell you haven't successfully created a RL
> either, so we may be in the same boat.
>
> I'd be more than happy at this point to talk about my game, instead of
> responding to your unabashed criticism. I can understand why you are
> skeptical, but that doesn't mean you have to project it onto me with
> absolutely nothing constructive to say. If you truly want to become
> "brothers" then start acting like one.

Really, just ignore Krice and go on with whatever you were doing.

I assure you, you don't want to be Krice's brother anyway.

A.
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