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Memory leaks in FS - where's the proof it really happens?

 
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Martin S.

External


Since: Oct 19, 2005
Posts: 434



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:50 am
Post subject: Memory leaks in FS - where's the proof it really happens?
Archived from groups: alt>games>microsoft>flight-sim (more info?)

There have been so many threads about Out-of-Memory errors in FS (not
a few of them from me) and how, when FSrepeatedly looks for a file
that it cannot find (bmp usually) this can (or is it "will"?) cause
RAM to drain away until OoM crashes occur.

I proved this myself recently (those who have been glued to my posts
on the subject - ha-ha - will need no reminding!) when I stopped OoM
erros by locating (with the help of Process Monitor) just a few bmp
files that FS was looking for in some bizarre location and copying the
files FS wanted to the location it wanted - RAM drain stopped
immediately, and quite dramatically.

The point of this is that I have been talking about this on other, non
FS forums, and to my surprise the response, from forum moderators too,
is that there is no evidence that Windows will encounter a memory leak
in this way. Maybe it's just an FS thing, but I want to show them the
evidence to prove my point. But can I find anything now I come to
look?! Course not.

I thought there was something about this from Microsoft, re FS9
(supposedly cured with FS9.1) but I can't find anything. Can someone
help me locate the 'smoking gun'? The articles are out there
somewhere.

Thanks!

Martin S.
(Hampshire, U.K.)

 >> Stay informed about: Memory leaks in FS - where's the proof it really happens? 
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Don

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Since: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 36



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: Memory leaks in FS - where's the proof it really happens? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Martin S." <ms.RemoveThis@ms.com> wrote in message
news:un9n149pvuiu103rkfgq7tsrhuoaukv97q@4ax.com...
> There have been so many threads about Out-of-Memory errors in FS (not
> a few of them from me) and how, when FSrepeatedly looks for a file
> that it cannot find (bmp usually) this can (or is it "will"?) cause
> RAM to drain away until OoM crashes occur.
>
> I proved this myself recently (those who have been glued to my posts
> on the subject - ha-ha - will need no reminding!) when I stopped OoM
> erros by locating (with the help of Process Monitor) just a few bmp
> files that FS was looking for in some bizarre location and copying the
> files FS wanted to the location it wanted - RAM drain stopped
> immediately, and quite dramatically.
>
> The point of this is that I have been talking about this on other, non
> FS forums, and to my surprise the response, from forum moderators too,
> is that there is no evidence that Windows will encounter a memory leak
> in this way. Maybe it's just an FS thing, but I want to show them the
> evidence to prove my point. But can I find anything now I come to
> look?! Course not.
>
> I thought there was something about this from Microsoft, re FS9
> (supposedly cured with FS9.1) but I can't find anything. Can someone
> help me locate the 'smoking gun'? The articles are out there
> somewhere.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Martin S.
> (Hampshire, U.K.)

Just out of my curiosity, is the bmp file being in a bizarre location, due
to an add-on or is this by default in the install?



--
Don

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scott s.

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Since: Mar 19, 2005
Posts: 438



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:45 am
Post subject: Re: Memory leaks in FS - where's the proof it really happens? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Martin S. <ms RemoveThis @ms.com> wrote in news:un9n149pvuiu103rkfgq7tsrhuoaukv97q@
4ax.com:

>
> The point of this is that I have been talking about this on other, non
> FS forums, and to my surprise the response, from forum moderators too,
> is that there is no evidence that Windows will encounter a memory leak
> in this way. Maybe it's just an FS thing, but I want to show them the
> evidence to prove my point. But can I find anything now I come to
> look?! Course not.

I don't think the OOM is a Windows problem. The FS process requests
that windows allocate virtual memory space out of the 2 gb available
to each process. If sufficient contiguous space is available, windows
will provide a reference to it to the the process. If it isn't, windows
returns an error code. It's up to the process to determine what to do
with the error. Now the typical reson why there are failures are that
the process destroyed a data structure without releasing the memory,
so windows will still think it is in use, but the process has no way of
finding the space again, or after successive allocations and releases,
the memory space has become fragmented so that there isn't any
contiguous space large enough to satisfy the request.


> I thought there was something about this from Microsoft, re FS9
> (supposedly cured with FS9.1) but I can't find anything. Can someone
> help me locate the 'smoking gun'? The articles are out there
> somewhere.

FS 9.1 readme:
Overview of Changes

Fixed Autogen performance degradation -
Flying out of an area then back to the same area may cause lower frame
rates. The problem was due to a memory leak and how Flight Simulator
handled autogen objects. Depending on the specific configuration and
scenario, some users observed significantly lower frame rates. The
update fully addresses this issue and users should have full
functionality of all autogen objects without adverse performance
problems.

Fixed Seasonal Crash to Desktop -
Going to specific airports during certain seasons would cause Flight
Simulator to crash. In previous versions of Flight Simulator we assumed
there would be 16 or fewer land classes within a 1km patch of terrain.
That assumption was no longer valid for Flight Simulator 9.0. This could
cause Flight Simulator to crash when loading areas with a large number
of land class seasonal and vector data variations. This issue has been
fully addressed and Flight Simulator will no longer crash when loading
these land class seasonal and vector data variations.

Improved Digital Elevation Mesh Support -
The Flight Simulator 2004: A Century of Flight (update) increases the
level of digital elevation mesh (DEM) support from 38 meters to 19
meters.

Replaced Missing Landmark Bridges -
In Flight Simulator 9.0 we replaced many old bridge models with new
bridge models. During this process many bridges that were in previous
versions of Flight Simulator were inadvertently omitted and the new
bridge model was never placed. We replaced approximately 160 missing
bridge models that were omitted from Flight Simulator 9.0.

scott s.
..
 >> Stay informed about: Memory leaks in FS - where's the proof it really happens? 
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Martin S.

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Since: Oct 19, 2005
Posts: 434



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Memory leaks in FS - where's the proof it really happens? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

To be honest, I can't remember what the bgl files were now. Sorry. I
think they were from a 3rd. party scenery, but I am not 100% sure. If
it comes back to me, I'll post back.

Yes, I think this is an FS problem, not Windows in general. I thought
it was supposed to have been fixed with FS9.1 - but clearly not. Not
sure what FSX is like in this respect (as I don't have it).

Thanks for the details Scott,

Martin S.
(Hampshire, U.K.)
 >> Stay informed about: Memory leaks in FS - where's the proof it really happens? 
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Pete

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Since: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 29



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Memory leaks in FS - where's the proof it really happens? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hi Martin.
Your post (s) make interesting reading.
A while ago I experienced a similar problem to you.
The gurus on this NG put it down to a "memory leak" too.I could only
fly so far into or out of Scotland before FS9 crashed to a OoM error.
I read your previous posting that you claimed had no responses but I
could not contribute as I could not offer any advice !
My only solution was the dreaded "wipe and reinstall" which worked.
I created a system restore after every third party scenery
installation so I could reset if the problem resurfaced.
This was a long, protracted procedure that quite honestly was pain in
the ar*e but at least gave me peace of mind.
I would love to find a definitive answer to this problem for future
reference as I'm sure you would !
Regards,
Pete (Stafford, UK)
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