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Magician Class for Review

 
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webhed

External


Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 251



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:37 pm
Post subject: Magician Class for Review
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>dnd (more info?)

I'm trying to create a new arcane spellcasting class for an upcoming
campaign I will be running. This class replaces the Wizard. This
campaign will be utilyzing very many of the variant campaign rules from
the SRD and almost all of the character classes are the variant classes
from there also. The following is simply to be called 'Magician' and I
have taken some concepts from Monte Cooks Magister (the staff) and from
the Warlock class from Complete Arcane (Eldritch Blast). I'm aware that
this is in the extremely early phase of development and the following
is really just a rough idea of where I'm headed. Here are the core
things I wanted to accomplish with this class and maybe some of you can
either critique what I have or offer different ideas as to how to
accomplish the goals.

Goals

1) The caster must physically open and read his spells from his book in
order to cast them. This grants him a great deal of versatility in the
spells he can cast but he makes himself vulnerable to attacks when
doing so as he has to focus very closely on the magical writing before
him. Magicians rely even more than Wizards and other arcane classes
upon their fighting friends to protect them while they cast their
spells. As a result, the spells that Magicians cast are often more
powerful than those cast by Wizards or other arcane classes (perhaps
always Empowered or something?)

2) The caster has the ability to cast any spell in his book when he
goes to cast a spell. He is limited in the total number of spells he
can cast each day however.

3) The caster carries a magical staff that is a focus for his powers. I
want that staff to grow in power as the Magician gains levels and to
eventually have somewhat of the retributive strike deal from days gone
by.. if the mages staff breaks all hell breaks loose. Perhaps something
like, "if the staff is broken it deals 1d6 damage per level of the
caster to all within 10' per level of the caster, including the
caster." or something.

4) The casters are almost universally old. A requirement of this class
is being at least middle aged. I'm trying to go for the classical old
bearded mage in a pointy hat with a staff here.

5) Implement the hit point rules where you roll half and get half
bonus, ie, all other classes will be doing the same thing. Fighter
classes will get 1d6+4, Barbarian types will get 1d6+6, skills type
classes will get 1d3+3 etc.

6) Skills: Magicians are more learned and educated than many of their
kin and as a result get 4 skill points per level instead of a Wizards
2.

7) Weapons: I limited them to the 1st Edition Magic-Users list of
weapons, just so I don't see any more Wizards with clubs and crossbows
running around.

+++++++++++++++

Magician

Alignment Any.

Misc Requirements: Age. Since the study of magic is long and intensive,
all Magicians begin play at least middle aged and are usually older
still. Adjust the characters physical and mental attributes based on
his age.

Hit Die d2+2.

Class Skills: The Magician's class skills (and the key ability for
each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script
(Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession
(Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at 1st Level (4 + Int modifier) × 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Magician.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Magicians are proficient with the dagger, dart, and quarterstaff, but
not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with
a Magician's movements, which can cause him spells with somatic
components to fail.

Spells
A Magician casts arcane spells which are drawn from the Sorcerer /
Wizard spell list but unlike Wizards, Magicians do not choose and
prepare their spells ahead of time (see below). To learn or cast a
spell, the Magician must have an Intelligence score equal to at least
10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a
Magician's spell is 10 + the spell level + the Magician's
Intelligence modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Magician can cast only a certain number of
spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is
given on Table: The Magician (same as Wizard). In addition, he receives
bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score. Unlike a bard
or sorcerer, a Magician may know any number of spells. He must get at
least 8 hours of rest each day before regaining any used spell slots.

A Magician casts his spells by opening his magical tome and reading the
arcane text aloud. As a result, all spells cast by Magicians have
verbal components even if the spell description doesn't otherwise
require one. The magician must hold the book open and stand very still
while reading and is treated as if he were flat-footed while doing so.
If a Magician is attacked while casting a spell he must choose to
either actively attempt to avoid the attack and lose the spell or
choose not to avoid the attack and continue casting the spell. If he
tries to avoid the attack the spell is lost. He is not allowed to make
a Concentration check to not lose the spell, it is lost automatically.
In this case he maintains his normal armor class and other defenses
normally. If, however, he decides to not avoid the attack, he is
considered Helpless towards that attack. If he is struck he also loses
the spell. In all cases, the Magician must be aware of the attack in
order to be able to choose whether or not to avoid it.
The extra time involved in carrying the book and opening it to the
right page adds additional time to cast each spell. All spell casting
times are at least a Full Round Action. If a spell has a greater
casting time already its casting time is not changed.

Bonus Languages
A Magician may substitute Draconic for one of the bonus languages
available to the character because of his race.

Scribe Scroll
At 1st level, a Magician gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.

Spell-like Abilities
Mage Barrier (Sp): Once per day as a swift action a Magician may
surround himself in a protective sphere of magical energy. This sphere
duplicates the effects of the Shield spell. Other than being a glowing
protective sphere instead of a floating tower shield it is exactly like
the Shield spell.

Spellbooks
A Magician must carry his spellbook with him at all times to cast his
spells. He cannot cast any spell not recorded in his spellbook, except
for read magic, which all Magicians can prepare from memory.
A Magician begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level Wizard
spells plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of
Intelligence bonus the Magician has, the spellbook holds one additional
1st-level spell of your choice. At each new Magician level, he gains
two new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on
his new Magician level) for his spellbook. At any time, a Magician can
also add spells found in other Magicians' spellbooks to his own.

At 3rd level a Magician's spellbook gains the ability to float in the
air in the Magician's square while he is perusing it to cast spells.
This frees his hands to continue holding his staff in case it is
needed. The pages of the spellbook turn magically to the pages needed
by the magician, as needed. If the magician attempts to leave the
square (or becomes unconscious or dead) where his book is floating it
falls harmlessly to the ground and must then be picked up.

Arcane Spells And Armor
Magicians do not know how to wear armor effectively. If desired, they
can wear armor anyway (though they'll be clumsy in it), or they can
gain training in the proper use of armor (with the various Armor
Proficiency feats-light, medium, and heavy-and the Shield
Proficiency feat), or they can multiclass to add a class that grants
them armor proficiency. Even if a Magician or sorcerer is wearing armor
with which he or he is proficient, however, it might still interfere
with spellcasting.

Armor restricts the complicated gestures that a Magician must make
while casting any spell that has a somatic component (most do). The
armor and shield descriptions list the arcane spell failure chance for
different armors and shields.

The Magician's Staff: A magister needs his staff both as a focus to
cast his spells and as the source of his spell-like abilities. Without
it, treat his caster level as one level lower and double casting times
for all spells (standard-action spells become full round spells,
full-round spells take 2 rounds to cast, and so on). In addition, he is
unable to use his spell-like abilities if he is not in contact with his
staff.

The magician crafts a staff specifically attuned to him. Regardless of
its construction or composition, it has a hardness of 12, 50 hit
points, and a break DC of 30. The staff 's hit points increase at a
rate of 2 per magician level, and the hardness and break Difficulty
Class increase at a rate of 1 point per three magician levels.

If a magician's staff breaks, he is stunned for 1d4 rounds. It takes
a month and 1,000 gp in materials to create a new one. A magician can
only have one staff attuned to him at a time. If the magician finds a
new staff he would rather become attuned to, switching requires no
money, just a week of meditation.
Should the magician die or take on a new staff, the old staff becomes
normal (unless it had been given other magical properties, in which
case they remain). A slain magician who comes back from the dead can
immediately and automatically re-attune to his old staff as a free
action.

+++++++++++++++

Thoughts? Ideas?

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webhed

External


Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 251



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Magician Class for Review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Woof,

Thanks for the comments but a couple things... First, this really isn't
a Magician type that does basic parlor/sleight of hand tricks like the
one from the netbook you copied and pasted so unfortunately there isn't
really much in there to nab, but thanks either way. Second, yeah the
one you posted is pretty much 100% 2nd edition so there would be
massive conversion efforts if it even was close to what I was looking
for lol

Thanks for the comment either way!

John

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Nikolas Landauer

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Since: Oct 06, 2005
Posts: 795



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:46 am
Post subject: Re: Magician Class for Review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> webhed says...
> >
> > Misc Requirements: Age. Since the study of magic is
> > long and intensive, all Magicians begin play at least middle
> > aged and are usually older still. Adjust the characters
> > physical and mental attributes based on his age.
>
> I find this really weird somehow. I see where you're coming
> from, the white-bearded wizard and all that, but it still feels...
> weird. These people spend their whole youth learning to cast
> the few simple spells a 1st-level wizard has access to? And
> then (depending on the advancement rate in the campaign)
> can shoot all the way up to wish and gate and time stop in
> a matter of months?

Not to mention the issues with multiclassing...

--
Nik
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Jasin Zujovic

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Since: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 1923



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: Magician Class for Review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <1142195823.802355.177650.RemoveThis@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
jreyst.RemoveThis@gmail.com says...

> 5) Implement the hit point rules where you roll half and get half
> bonus, ie, all other classes will be doing the same thing. Fighter
> classes will get 1d6+4, Barbarian types will get 1d6+6, skills type
> classes will get 1d3+3 etc.

That gets them more hp than the default rules. Not that there's anything
wrong with that, I'm just pointing it out since your phrasing ("roll
half and get half") seemed to imply that the end average result would be
the same.

> Misc Requirements: Age. Since the study of magic is long and intensive,
> all Magicians begin play at least middle aged and are usually older
> still. Adjust the characters physical and mental attributes based on
> his age.

I find this really weird somehow. I see where you're coming from, the
white-bearded wizard and all that, but it still feels... weird. These
people spend their whole youth learning to cast the few simple spells a
1st-level wizard has access to? And then (depending on the advancement
rate in the campaign) can shoot all the way up to wish and gate and time
stop in a matter of months?

But I guess it's no big deal in practice, so... eh.

> A Magician casts his spells by opening his magical tome and reading the
> arcane text aloud. As a result, all spells cast by Magicians have
> verbal components even if the spell description doesn't otherwise
> require one. The magician must hold the book open and stand very still
> while reading and is treated as if he were flat-footed while doing so.
> If a Magician is attacked while casting a spell he must choose to
> either actively attempt to avoid the attack and lose the spell or
> choose not to avoid the attack and continue casting the spell. If he
> tries to avoid the attack the spell is lost. He is not allowed to make
> a Concentration check to not lose the spell, it is lost automatically.
> In this case he maintains his normal armor class and other defenses
> normally. If, however, he decides to not avoid the attack, he is
> considered Helpless towards that attack. If he is struck he also loses
> the spell.

So the choice is avoid the attack and lose the spell or not avoid the
attack, be helpless, get hit automatically and lose the spell? Whyever
would the magician choose not to avoid, then?

Also, what's the magician's AC if he chooses to avoid? His normal AC or
his flat-footed AC? The phrasing is a bit unclear...

> Spell-like Abilities
> Mage Barrier (Sp): Once per day as a swift action a Magician may
> surround himself in a protective sphere of magical energy. This sphere
> duplicates the effects of the Shield spell. Other than being a glowing
> protective sphere instead of a floating tower shield it is exactly like
> the Shield spell.

I assume you plan to add other spell-likes to the list...?

But are they even necessary? I mean, it's a magician. If he wants a
protective magical shield of force, couldn't he just, y'know, cast
shield?

If you want them to have some specials, I think it'd be better if it
were something unique, not just effects that mimic spells they can cast
anyway.

> At 3rd level a Magician's spellbook gains the ability to float in the
> air in the Magician's square while he is perusing it to cast spells.
> This frees his hands to continue holding his staff in case it is
> needed. The pages of the spellbook turn magically to the pages needed
> by the magician, as needed. If the magician attempts to leave the
> square (or becomes unconscious or dead) where his book is floating it
> falls harmlessly to the ground and must then be picked up.

What sort of action is it to pick up the levitating book?

> The Magician's Staff: A magister needs his staff both as a focus to
> cast his spells and as the source of his spell-like abilities. Without
> it, treat his caster level as one level lower and double casting times
> for all spells (standard-action spells become full round spells,
> full-round spells take 2 rounds to cast, and so on). In addition, he is
> unable to use his spell-like abilities if he is not in contact with his
> staff.

I don't think they need to be dependant on both the staff and the book.
After all, the fictional wizards usually use one or the other, not both,
I think?


--
Jasin Zujovic
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Justisaur

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Since: Jun 08, 2005
Posts: 1864



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:46 am
Post subject: Re: Magician Class for Review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In article <1142195823.802355.177650.RemoveThis@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> jreyst.RemoveThis@gmail.com says...
>
> > 5) Implement the hit point rules where you roll half and get half
> > bonus, ie, all other classes will be doing the same thing. Fighter
> > classes will get 1d6+4, Barbarian types will get 1d6+6, skills type
> > classes will get 1d3+3 etc.
>
> That gets them more hp than the default rules. Not that there's anything
> wrong with that, I'm just pointing it out since your phrasing ("roll
> half and get half") seemed to imply that the end average result would be
> the same.
>

That is just a house rule on HP, doesn't belong in a class description
IMHO.

> > Misc Requirements: Age. Since the study of magic is long and intensive,
> > all Magicians begin play at least middle aged and are usually older
> > still. Adjust the characters physical and mental attributes based on
> > his age.
>
> I find this really weird somehow. I see where you're coming from, the
> white-bearded wizard and all that, but it still feels... weird. These
> people spend their whole youth learning to cast the few simple spells a
> 1st-level wizard has access to? And then (depending on the advancement
> rate in the campaign) can shoot all the way up to wish and gate and time
> stop in a matter of months?
>
> But I guess it's no big deal in practice, so... eh.

Um yeah, and wizards suddenly get to 21 years of age after years of
studdying, and shoot up in a matter of months as well.

If you want the wizened old wizard, might as well make the prereq old
instead of middle aged.

Somehow I'm thinking this would work better as some sort of PRC, with a
prerequisite of age=>old.

>
> > A Magician casts his spells by opening his magical tome and reading the
> > arcane text aloud. As a result, all spells cast by Magicians have
> > verbal components even if the spell description doesn't otherwise
> > require one. The magician must hold the book open and stand very still
> > while reading and is treated as if he were flat-footed while doing so.
> > If a Magician is attacked while casting a spell he must choose to
> > either actively attempt to avoid the attack and lose the spell or
> > choose not to avoid the attack and continue casting the spell. If he
> > tries to avoid the attack the spell is lost. He is not allowed to make
> > a Concentration check to not lose the spell, it is lost automatically.
> > In this case he maintains his normal armor class and other defenses
> > normally. If, however, he decides to not avoid the attack, he is
> > considered Helpless towards that attack. If he is struck he also loses
> > the spell.
>
> So the choice is avoid the attack and lose the spell or not avoid the
> attack, be helpless, get hit automatically and lose the spell? Whyever
> would the magician choose not to avoid, then?
>
> Also, what's the magician's AC if he chooses to avoid? His normal AC or
> his flat-footed AC? The phrasing is a bit unclear...
>

Huge problem here too. The Magician has to hold his book in one hand.
Hold his staff in the other... You have to have a hand free to perform
somatic components.

It looks like it needs a lot of work at this point.

- Justisaur
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webhed

External


Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 251



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:06 am
Post subject: Re: Magician Class for Review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> > 5) Implement the hit point rules where you roll half and get half
> > bonus, ie, all other classes will be doing the same thing. Fighter
> > classes will get 1d6+4, Barbarian types will get 1d6+6, skills type
> > classes will get 1d3+3 etc.
>
> That gets them more hp than the default rules. Not that there's anything
> wrong with that, I'm just pointing it out since your phrasing ("roll
> half and get half") seemed to imply that the end average result would be
> the same.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. In general I don't mind if characters have
more than normal, I just saw this rule and thought it was neat so I
thought I'd use it in whatever campaign I ran next. Characters will
have average at minimum and more likely avg + 50% in reality, for
characters with 75% of max hit points on average I think. Thats ball
park though so you mathemagicians (snicker) please don't nit-pick the
real numbers Smile

> > Misc Requirements: Age. Since the study of magic is long and intensive,
> > all Magicians begin play at least middle aged and are usually older
> > still. Adjust the characters physical and mental attributes based on
> > his age.
>
> I find this really weird somehow. I see where you're coming from, the
> white-bearded wizard and all that, but it still feels... weird. These
> people spend their whole youth learning to cast the few simple spells a
> 1st-level wizard has access to? And then (depending on the advancement
> rate in the campaign) can shoot all the way up to wish and gate and time
> stop in a matter of months?

I know what you mean. I think the part about having only a few minor
spells and then shooting all the way to wish in the span of a year or
two (max) seems hard to fathom. Perhaps the age requirement might be a
better idea for a Prestige Class like "Venerable Master" or something.

> > A Magician casts his spells by opening his magical tome and reading the
> > arcane text aloud. As a result, all spells cast by Magicians have
> > verbal components even if the spell description doesn't otherwise
> > require one. The magician must hold the book open and stand very still
> > while reading and is treated as if he were flat-footed while doing so.
> > If a Magician is attacked while casting a spell he must choose to
> > either actively attempt to avoid the attack and lose the spell or
> > choose not to avoid the attack and continue casting the spell. If he
> > tries to avoid the attack the spell is lost. He is not allowed to make
> > a Concentration check to not lose the spell, it is lost automatically.
> > In this case he maintains his normal armor class and other defenses
> > normally. If, however, he decides to not avoid the attack, he is
> > considered Helpless towards that attack. If he is struck he also loses
> > the spell.
>
> So the choice is avoid the attack and lose the spell or not avoid the
> attack, be helpless, get hit automatically and lose the spell? Whyever
> would the magician choose not to avoid, then?

Maybe just in case the DM forgets that attacks on helpless foes auto
hit? lol Ok, I forgot about the auto hit part. I'm open to suggestions
on how to make the Magician be more vulnerable while casting so if you
have any ideas I'm all ears Surprised)

> > Spell-like Abilities
> > Mage Barrier (Sp): Once per day as a swift action a Magician may
> > surround himself in a protective sphere of magical energy. This sphere
> > duplicates the effects of the Shield spell. Other than being a glowing
> > protective sphere instead of a floating tower shield it is exactly like
> > the Shield spell.
>
> I assume you plan to add other spell-likes to the list...?

I did. I was going to add an Eldritch Blast ability (as per Warlock)
but I forgot to paste it combined with I was having second thoughts on
whether or not it made the class to strong.

> But are they even necessary? I mean, it's a magician. If he wants a
> protective magical shield of force, couldn't he just, y'know, cast
> shield?

Sure, as one of his spells per day, AND, not as a Swift action. This
allows him to, once a day, raise shields quickly and not use an action.

> If you want them to have some specials, I think it'd be better if it
> were something unique, not just effects that mimic spells they can cast
> anyway.

I generally agree but I was sort of trying to go for a stereotypical,
pointy hat wearing, old, bearded, staff wielding mage who has a magic
shield and casts magical bolts at will. However I get there I don't
really care lol

> > At 3rd level a Magician's spellbook gains the ability to float in the
> > air in the Magician's square while he is perusing it to cast spells.
> > This frees his hands to continue holding his staff in case it is
> > needed. The pages of the spellbook turn magically to the pages needed
> > by the magician, as needed. If the magician attempts to leave the
> > square (or becomes unconscious or dead) where his book is floating it
> > falls harmlessly to the ground and must then be picked up.
>
> What sort of action is it to pick up the levitating book?

Good question. I hadn't thought about that. I suppose a Move equiv?
Same as picking up a dropped object I guess, but its not on the ground.

> > The Magician's Staff: A magister needs his staff both as a focus to
> > cast his spells and as the source of his spell-like abilities. Without
> > it, treat his caster level as one level lower and double casting times
> > for all spells (standard-action spells become full round spells,
> > full-round spells take 2 rounds to cast, and so on). In addition, he is
> > unable to use his spell-like abilities if he is not in contact with his
> > staff.
>
> I don't think they need to be dependant on both the staff and the book.
> After all, the fictional wizards usually use one or the other, not both,
> I think?

Well I think I want both the staff and the book, and since books sort
of go with arcane casters anyway I was only imagining the staff as the
only 'extra' item he depends on. I also was sort of using the
dependence on the staff to try to counterbalance some of the advantages
he would be getting, such as the ability to cast any spell in his book.

Thanks for the comments, I'd love to hear more, especially constructive
suggestions on how to get where I want to be with this class.

John
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webhed

External


Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 251



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:13 am
Post subject: Re: Magician Class for Review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> > In article <1142195823.802355.177650.RemoveThis@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > jreyst.RemoveThis@gmail.com says...
> >
> > > 5) Implement the hit point rules where you roll half and get half
> > > bonus, ie, all other classes will be doing the same thing. Fighter
> > > classes will get 1d6+4, Barbarian types will get 1d6+6, skills type
> > > classes will get 1d3+3 etc.
> >
> > That gets them more hp than the default rules. Not that there's anything
> > wrong with that, I'm just pointing it out since your phrasing ("roll
> > half and get half") seemed to imply that the end average result would be
> > the same.
> >
>
> That is just a house rule on HP, doesn't belong in a class description
> IMHO.

I thought of that after posting it. You're right. Forget I mentioned it
Smile

> > > Misc Requirements: Age. Since the study of magic is long and intensive,
> > > all Magicians begin play at least middle aged and are usually older
> > > still. Adjust the characters physical and mental attributes based on
> > > his age.
> >
> Um yeah, and wizards suddenly get to 21 years of age after years of
> studdying, and shoot up in a matter of months as well.
> If you want the wizened old wizard, might as well make the prereq old
> instead of middle aged.
>
> Somehow I'm thinking this would work better as some sort of PRC, with a
> prerequisite of age=>old.

My thoughts exactly. See my other post about the "Venerable Master"
PrC.

> Huge problem here too. The Magician has to hold his book in one hand.
> Hold his staff in the other... You have to have a hand free to perform
> somatic components.

Well I partially address that with the whole floating spellbook part,
and I don't think I ever said the Magician actually has to have his
staff in hand at all times, perhaps its on his back or something.
Either way, what if I also said that since all spells for Magicians
always have a verbal component, NO spells cast by Magicians have
somatic components. Would that break anything obvious?

> It looks like it needs a lot of work at this point.

Yeah I know, but since my campaign is a good way off I thought I'd work
out the bugs here and now before I get closer to the real deal.

Any other ideas or suggestions?

John
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DragonFireCK

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Since: Dec 15, 2005
Posts: 37



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:55 pm
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webhed wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:
>
>
> Well I partially address that with the whole floating spellbook part,
> and I don't think I ever said the Magician actually has to have his
> staff in hand at all times, perhaps its on his back or something.
> Either way, what if I also said that since all spells for Magicians
> always have a verbal component, NO spells cast by Magicians have
> somatic components. Would that break anything obvious?
>
>

Its generally discribed thoughout the PHB and DMG that the arcane
failure chance for armor is related to the somatic component, however I
don't belive there is any rule which states that spells without somatic
components don't have a arcane failure... That would be the only effect
I could think of from not having any somatic component.
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DragonFireCK

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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:55 pm
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webhed wrote:
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>
>>>A Magician casts his spells by opening his magical tome and reading the
>>>arcane text aloud. As a result, all spells cast by Magicians have
>>>verbal components even if the spell description doesn't otherwise
>>>require one. The magician must hold the book open and stand very still
>>>while reading and is treated as if he were flat-footed while doing so.
>>>If a Magician is attacked while casting a spell he must choose to
>>>either actively attempt to avoid the attack and lose the spell or
>>>choose not to avoid the attack and continue casting the spell. If he
>>>tries to avoid the attack the spell is lost. He is not allowed to make
>>>a Concentration check to not lose the spell, it is lost automatically.
>>>In this case he maintains his normal armor class and other defenses
>>>normally. If, however, he decides to not avoid the attack, he is
>>>considered Helpless towards that attack. If he is struck he also loses
>>>the spell.
>>
>>So the choice is avoid the attack and lose the spell or not avoid the
>>attack, be helpless, get hit automatically and lose the spell? Whyever
>>would the magician choose not to avoid, then?
>
>
> Maybe just in case the DM forgets that attacks on helpless foes auto
> hit? lol Ok, I forgot about the auto hit part. I'm open to suggestions
> on how to make the Magician be more vulnerable while casting so if you
> have any ideas I'm all ears Surprised)
>

Perhaps give the Magician a chance to not lose the spell if hit, such as
a concentration check of DC 10+damage taken, but they are helpless and
get auto hit. At 1st level, they can only take about 3 damage before
becoming staggered, making the max check about 13, about a 60% (25[20
from roll, +5 from conceneration rank]-[10+3]=12*5%=60%) chance to keep
the spell. Thereby, your choices would be:
1) Have about a chance (minimizing at about 60%, exlcuding losing spell
from becoming staggered or unconscious) to keep the spell, but
automatically take damage.
2) Automatically lose the spell, but have a chance to avoid damage
(based on AC).

By adjusting the base DC to keep the spell, and controlling the types of
armor and such they can get, the chances should be somewhat reasonable.
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DragonFireCK

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Since: Dec 15, 2005
Posts: 37



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:55 am
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DragonFireCK wrote:
> webhed wrote:
>
>> Justisaur wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well I partially address that with the whole floating spellbook part,
>> and I don't think I ever said the Magician actually has to have his
>> staff in hand at all times, perhaps its on his back or something.
>> Either way, what if I also said that since all spells for Magicians
>> always have a verbal component, NO spells cast by Magicians have
>> somatic components. Would that break anything obvious?
>>
>>
>
> Its generally discribed thoughout the PHB and DMG that the arcane
> failure chance for armor is related to the somatic component, however I
> don't belive there is any rule which states that spells without somatic
> components don't have a arcane failure... That would be the only effect
> I could think of from not having any somatic component.


Since posting, I have looked up the information in the PHB, and there
would be no arcane failure chance for the spells if you removed the
somatic component, thus making the class better at using armor than the
other arcane spell casters (PHB3.0 105).
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DragonFireCK

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Posts: 37



(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:55 am
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DragonFireCK wrote:
> webhed wrote:
>
>> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>>
>>>> A Magician casts his spells by opening his magical tome and reading the
>>>> arcane text aloud. As a result, all spells cast by Magicians have
>>>> verbal components even if the spell description doesn't otherwise
>>>> require one. The magician must hold the book open and stand very still
>>>> while reading and is treated as if he were flat-footed while doing so.
>>>> If a Magician is attacked while casting a spell he must choose to
>>>> either actively attempt to avoid the attack and lose the spell or
>>>> choose not to avoid the attack and continue casting the spell. If he
>>>> tries to avoid the attack the spell is lost. He is not allowed to make
>>>> a Concentration check to not lose the spell, it is lost automatically.
>>>> In this case he maintains his normal armor class and other defenses
>>>> normally. If, however, he decides to not avoid the attack, he is
>>>> considered Helpless towards that attack. If he is struck he also loses
>>>> the spell.
>>>
>>>
>>> So the choice is avoid the attack and lose the spell or not avoid the
>>> attack, be helpless, get hit automatically and lose the spell? Whyever
>>> would the magician choose not to avoid, then?
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe just in case the DM forgets that attacks on helpless foes auto
>> hit? lol Ok, I forgot about the auto hit part. I'm open to suggestions
>> on how to make the Magician be more vulnerable while casting so if you
>> have any ideas I'm all ears Surprised)
>>
>
> Perhaps give the Magician a chance to not lose the spell if hit, such as
> a concentration check of DC 10+damage taken, but they are helpless and
> get auto hit. At 1st level, they can only take about 3 damage before
> becoming staggered, making the max check about 13, about a 60% (25[20
> from roll, +5 from conceneration rank]-[10+3]=12*5%=60%) chance to keep
> the spell. Thereby, your choices would be:
> 1) Have about a chance (minimizing at about 60%, exlcuding losing spell
> from becoming staggered or unconscious) to keep the spell, but
> automatically take damage.
> 2) Automatically lose the spell, but have a chance to avoid damage
> (based on AC).
>
> By adjusting the base DC to keep the spell, and controlling the types of
> armor and such they can get, the chances should be somewhat reasonable.

Upon looking up the rules, I would suggest that the concentration check
should be set to about 15+dmg+spell level (exactly 5 above that for the
normal Wizard; see concentration skill). In addition, I would like to
point out that in 3.0 (don't have 3.5 books handy to check), helpless
defenders don't warrant automatic hits, however their dex bonus to AC
becomes -5 (as if dex score was 0), plus sneak attack (PHB3.0 133).
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Jasin Zujovic

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Since: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 1923



(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:55 am
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In article <1142356015.565911.26380.RemoveThis@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
jreyst.RemoveThis@gmail.com says...

> > > A Magician casts his spells by opening his magical tome and reading the
> > > arcane text aloud. As a result, all spells cast by Magicians have
> > > verbal components even if the spell description doesn't otherwise
> > > require one. The magician must hold the book open and stand very still
> > > while reading and is treated as if he were flat-footed while doing so.
> > > If a Magician is attacked while casting a spell he must choose to
> > > either actively attempt to avoid the attack and lose the spell or
> > > choose not to avoid the attack and continue casting the spell. If he
> > > tries to avoid the attack the spell is lost. He is not allowed to make
> > > a Concentration check to not lose the spell, it is lost automatically.
> > > In this case he maintains his normal armor class and other defenses
> > > normally. If, however, he decides to not avoid the attack, he is
> > > considered Helpless towards that attack. If he is struck he also loses
> > > the spell.
> >
> > So the choice is avoid the attack and lose the spell or not avoid the
> > attack, be helpless, get hit automatically and lose the spell? Whyever
> > would the magician choose not to avoid, then?
>
> Maybe just in case the DM forgets that attacks on helpless foes auto
> hit? lol Ok, I forgot about the auto hit part. I'm open to suggestions
> on how to make the Magician be more vulnerable while casting so if you
> have any ideas I'm all ears Surprised)

Perhaps just an AC penalty? I don't really like flat-footedness since it
hurts the Dex 17 magician much more than it does a Dex 10 one, and since
it hurts much more when there are rogues around than when there are not.
A fixed AC penalty (say -4, then tweak up/down as needed?) works the
same for all magicians.

> > But are they even necessary? I mean, it's a magician. If he wants a
> > protective magical shield of force, couldn't he just, y'know, cast
> > shield?
>
> Sure, as one of his spells per day, AND, not as a Swift action. This
> allows him to, once a day, raise shields quickly and not use an action.

I'm not saying the ability isn't useful, I just think that it doesn't
add much to the class concept. A more interesting ability, IMO, would be
to allow them to Quicken a couple of spells per day for free, probably
limited somehow by spell level (no Quickening cone of cold at 9th-level
when you only just got it).

> > If you want them to have some specials, I think it'd be better if it
> > were something unique, not just effects that mimic spells they can cast
> > anyway.
>
> I generally agree but I was sort of trying to go for a stereotypical,
> pointy hat wearing, old, bearded, staff wielding mage who has a magic
> shield and casts magical bolts at will. However I get there I don't
> really care lol

Perhaps give them ability that lets them "convert" their spell slots per
day into a shield-like effect, and another into an eldritch-blast-like
effect (so they can even do it in combat without the reading penalties),
and let them use their spellbook for the other wizardly stuff...?

Something like a ranged touch attack, short range, 1d6/slot level +
1d6/2 class levels for the magic bolt, and +3 shield bonus to AC, +
1/slot level for the shield?

(These are numbers I just came up with, so they're not really thought
through...)


--
Jasin Zujovic
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webhed

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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 251



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:16 pm
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Jim Davies wrote:
> Er...isn't having your INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE spellbook floating in
> midair in the middle of combat with, like, 3 hp and hardness zero
> enough of a disadvantage?

Hmmm.. I guess that WOULD be a bit of a disadvantage.
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webhed

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Posts: 251



(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:21 pm
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Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> Perhaps just an AC penalty? I don't really like flat-footedness since it
> hurts the Dex 17 magician much more than it does a Dex 10 one, and since
> it hurts much more when there are rogues around than when there are not.
> A fixed AC penalty (say -4, then tweak up/down as needed?) works the
> same for all magicians.

That is much nicer in fact. I suppose a -4 AC penalty would be good and
then leave out all the flat-footed and helpless stuff.

> > Sure, as one of his spells per day, AND, not as a Swift action. This
> > allows him to, once a day, raise shields quickly and not use an action.
>
> I'm not saying the ability isn't useful, I just think that it doesn't
> add much to the class concept. A more interesting ability, IMO, would be
> to allow them to Quicken a couple of spells per day for free, probably
> limited somehow by spell level (no Quickening cone of cold at 9th-level
> when you only just got it).

Perhaps one spell of each level he can cast can be cast as a swift
action. Or one spell per level but not of the highest level he can
cast. So a 1st-3rd level caster can cast one 1st level spell as a swift
action 1x/day. At 5th level he can also cast a 2nd level spell as a
swift action, etc.

John
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