Question for MSFS helicopter pilots

Simon Robbins writes:

> Mxsmanic wrote:
> > Can anyone fill me in on which controls do what when flying a
> > helicopter?
>
> Joystick X and Y axes are cyclic, (map to aileron and elevator in settings),
> joystick throttle axis is collective, (map to throttle in settings),
> pedals are tail rotor pitch (anti-torque), (map to rudder),
>
> You can also program another axis (if you have one) to engine throttle,
> using either engine 1 prop or throttle in settings, I don't recall which.

Thanks. Does the standard prop control do anything on a helicopter?
It seemed to change some instruments, which looked like maybe rotor
speed, although it was hard to tell.

In real life, do pilots adjust the throttle a lot? How do they do it
when they have to keep their hands on the cyclic and collective all
the time?

Helicopters seem really unstable to me. I would start to spin for
seemingly no apparent reason (no adjustment of pitch or anything that
I could perceive). However, I guess they are probably fun to fly once
one has enough practice to master all those multiple instabilities.
And it was kind of interesting to be able to hover over something or
land on top of a building. But it sure felt relaxing to slip back
into the Baron for some sedate fixed-wing flight.

I wonder if helicopter practice helps sharpen any skills that are
applicable to fixed-wing flight (?).

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Mxsmanic wrote:
> Thanks. Does the standard prop control do anything on a helicopter?
> It seemed to change some instruments, which looked like maybe rotor
> speed, although it was hard to tell.

The cyclic control puts pressure on the rotor disc, and through
procession, tilts the disc and the resultant thrust vector.

The collective control changes the rotor blade angle relative to the hub
(very similarly to a constant speed prop), increasing or decreasing
thrust as the pilot wants.

Just as in a constant speed prop, making large collective movements can
slow the rotor, before the engine can compensate with increased torque.
Since the "prop" control is actually the engine throttle in a FS
helicopter, what it adjusts is the torque that turns the rotor (and by
extension, the tail rotor). The rotor disc should spin at some RPM, X,
and the gauges are marked in % of that correct speed.

> In real life, do pilots adjust the throttle a lot? How do they do it
> when they have to keep their hands on the cyclic and collective all
> the time?
>

In a modern helicopter, not all that often. There is an automatic
governor system (again, very similar to the system in use in a constant
speed prop) that adjusts the engine torque to keep the rotor spinning at
a constant speed, while the pilot only adjusts the collective. Of
course, sans this system, pilots must adjust throttle every time they
make a collective adjustment (and more during a flight, as conditions
change).

The engine throttle control is on the end of the collective handle, and
works as a twist grip. By holding the grip, the pilot can simultaneously
control the collective (by pulling or pushing the handle) and the engine
throttle (by twisting the grip around left or right). All it requires is
the mental forethought to control the cyclic, collective, throttle,
anti-torque pedals, radios, maintain traffic awareness and a flight
profile, while complying with any applicable instructions or
regulations. Simple, no?

> I would start to spin for
> seemingly no apparent reason (no adjustment of pitch or anything that
> I could perceive).

If you're in a hover, you need to add anti-torque (rudder). If you're
flying forward (especially in the R22), you need to adjust the rotor
trim (50% works pretty well), since it doesn't have precession
compensation (alternately, hold the controls against the turn and pitch).


> I wonder if helicopter practice helps sharpen any skills that are
> applicable to fixed-wing flight (?).

Proactive flight control, multitasking, balance, kinesthetics, etc. etc.
etc.

TheSmokingGnu
 >> Stay informed about: Question for MSFS helicopter pilots 

Note that significant rearward motion will make the helicopter turn
around into the direction of flight. Often that results in a spin that's
difficult to recover from. Turn into the wind to hover or land. Try to
select a hovering/landing site with a detailed ground texture (NOT the
blurry ones in many areas), building or autogen object a few dozen yards
in FRONT of you so you can better tell the difference between vertical
and fore/aft motion.
 >> Stay informed about: Question for MSFS helicopter pilots 

NOTAM:

Go to www.Hovercontrol.com for any and all information related to Choppers.
If your looking for instruction that have that also.

For the Best Downloads of Choppers and Scenery files go to there download
sections. There sceneries specialize is Chopper related information.

Not4wood


"RobertVA" <robert_c72athotmail DeleteThis @invalid.net> wrote in message
news:d6_uh.51420$sE7.29601@newsfe21.lga...
> Note that significant rearward motion will make the helicopter turn around
> into the direction of flight. Often that results in a spin that's
> difficult to recover from. Turn into the wind to hover or land. Try to
> select a hovering/landing site with a detailed ground texture (NOT the
> blurry ones in many areas), building or autogen object a few dozen yards
> in FRONT of you so you can better tell the difference between vertical and
> fore/aft motion.
 >> Stay informed about: Question for MSFS helicopter pilots 

Mxsmanic wrote:
>> You can also program another axis (if you have one) to engine throttle,
>> using either engine 1 prop or throttle in settings, I don't recall which.
>
> Thanks. Does the standard prop control do anything on a helicopter?
> It seemed to change some instruments, which looked like maybe rotor
> speed, although it was hard to tell.

You can use the extra channel to control engine throttle to bring the
206 from idle to 100% to make startups that little bit more realistic,
but once the rotor rpm's in the green arc the nthe governor will take
over and keep it there as you make different torque adjustments.

The only helicopters in real life where you need to adjust the throttle
are those without governors, like the 300CB. In that case the pilot has
to adjust throttle to maintain rotor rpm as engine load changes due to
torque requirements.

Si
 >> Stay informed about: Question for MSFS helicopter pilots 

TheSmokingGnu writes:

> If you're in a hover, you need to add anti-torque (rudder). If you're
> flying forward (especially in the R22), you need to adjust the rotor
> trim (50% works pretty well), since it doesn't have precession
> compensation (alternately, hold the controls against the turn and pitch).

Sometimes it _seems_ like I'm just sitting in a hover (which is an
accomplishment in itself for me), and then the helicopter starts to
turn in one direction or another. When I compensate with the rudder,
it starts to go the other way. It seems to be very hard to neutralize
the back-and-forth yaw.

Also, am I correct in thinking that "down" on the AI actually means
"forward," and "up" actually means "backward," with a level horizon
meaning "hover"? I note that I lose altitude when moving forward or
backward (part of the lift used for lateral movement, I assume), and
the horizon seems to literally indicate the direction in which the
aircraft is tilting as it moves in one direction or another. It seems
to take a long time to build up speed, and a long time to come to a
stop.

What's the best way to turn? If I'm already moving forward, it seems
to fly almost like fixed-wing, by moving the stick to one side and
using a bit of rudder. If I'm hovering, it seems to be more
complicated. Do I turn with the rudder to my heading and then move
forward with the cyclic, or do I move the cyclic towards my heading
and then align with it with the rudder, or what?

Thanks for all the other answers. I found a Web site,
www.hovercontrol.com, that describes helicopter simulation, but it's
still partially under construction.

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RobertVA writes:

> Note that significant rearward motion will make the helicopter turn
> around into the direction of flight. Often that results in a spin that's
> difficult to recover from.

Ah ... I didn't know that. I thought I could fly in any direction
without having to turn into that direction (I seem to recall real
helicopters doing this, at least sometimes).

> Turn into the wind to hover or land.

I had forgotten about that.

How do you see the ground when you land? If I approach moving
forward, I apparently have to tilt backwards to stop. When I'm
actually over my landing spot, I can't see it, and if I can see it,
I'm not over it. How do you see the exact spot where you plan to set
down?

I've tried panning downwards to see my landing spot, but I get really
disoriented if I'm not hovering very nicely and very still when I look
down. I presume this is less disorienting in real life. Is there a
better way to do this?

> Try to
> select a hovering/landing site with a detailed ground texture (NOT the
> blurry ones in many areas), building or autogen object a few dozen yards
> in FRONT of you so you can better tell the difference between vertical
> and fore/aft motion.

OK. I was surprised at how tolerant the aircraft was of vertical
motion. A landing that would be hard enough to collapse the nose gear
on a fixed-wing aircraft seemed to be okay for the helicopter, or
perhaps I just wasn't descending as quickly as I thought (it's hard to
tell at low vertical speeds).

I see that FS9 simulates the rotor wash blowing dust and stuff around.
Does it also simulate ground effect for helicopters?

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Not4wood writes:

> Go to www.Hovercontrol.com for any and all information related to Choppers.
> If your looking for instruction that have that also.

I have. The section on control assignments was empty, though. I
didn't find anything that looked like a tutorial, either, although
it's a pretty big site.

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 >> Stay informed about: Question for MSFS helicopter pilots 

Simon Robbins writes:

> The only helicopters in real life where you need to adjust the throttle
> are those without governors, like the 300CB. In that case the pilot has
> to adjust throttle to maintain rotor rpm as engine load changes due to
> torque requirements.

Helicopter pilots must have two extra brains to keep track of all
that. Now I appreciate even more the picture I saw of a twin-rotor
military helicopter with one end poised on the edge of a rooftop as
people were evacuated into the aircraft. Well done!

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The site is constantly being updated. Sometimes change is good. Did you
check out the downloads. There are other Heli's that handle a lot better
than the default. Look for the Eurocopter by Sammy Faye. This is a great
ship.

There is a very steep learning curve for choppers. Take your time and
practice. A lot. Also, look for any of the scenery files from
Hovercontrol. They will have the heli landing squares with uhhhhh, numbers
if I remember. You will hover taxi, land in one square. hover taxi again
and keep moving into the different squares. Helps in getting used to the
movements with or without wind.

If you want a really great ship to practice with try the Aircrane. This
thing is a monster but it has fully animated parts like a Hose and tanker
for fighting fires, and a whinch for moving logs around. Pretty cool stuff.

Not4wood

"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ki8pr254cabvni2c14f8me6ns85sdmhvh7@4ax.com...
> Not4wood writes:
>
>> Go to www.Hovercontrol.com for any and all information related to
>> Choppers.
>> If your looking for instruction that have that also.
>
> I have. The section on control assignments was empty, though. I
> didn't find anything that looked like a tutorial, either, although
> it's a pretty big site.
>
> --
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 >> Stay informed about: Question for MSFS helicopter pilots 

Not4wood writes:

> The site is constantly being updated. Sometimes change is good. Did you
> check out the downloads. There are other Heli's that handle a lot better
> than the default. Look for the Eurocopter by Sammy Faye. This is a great
> ship.

I'm not at the point where I'd be ready to download anything. The
site seems to think that even the default helicopters are pretty well
simulated, if you set all the realism settings at the max.

> There is a very steep learning curve for choppers. Take your time and
> practice. A lot.

It's frustrating. However, I was encouraged this time because I
actually managed to move around a bit and land. The first time I
tried the helicopter, I killed myself (but I didn't have rudder pedals
at the time, so that might have been part of it).

> You will hover taxi, land in one square. hover taxi again
> and keep moving into the different squares. Helps in getting used to the
> movements with or without wind.

What is hover taxi? I heard helicopter pilots talking about it to
ATC.

> If you want a really great ship to practice with try the Aircrane. This
> thing is a monster but it has fully animated parts like a Hose and tanker
> for fighting fires, and a whinch for moving logs around. Pretty cool stuff.

I'd need to be an octopus to handle all that and still fly the
aircraft. I don't have enough hands as it is.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
> Not4wood writes:
>
>> The site is constantly being updated. Sometimes change is good. Did you
>> check out the downloads. There are other Heli's that handle a lot better
>> than the default. Look for the Eurocopter by Sammy Faye. This is a great
>> ship.
>
> I'm not at the point where I'd be ready to download anything. The
> site seems to think that even the default helicopters are pretty well
> simulated, if you set all the realism settings at the max.
>
>> There is a very steep learning curve for choppers. Take your time and
>> practice. A lot.
>
> It's frustrating. However, I was encouraged this time because I
> actually managed to move around a bit and land. The first time I
> tried the helicopter, I killed myself (but I didn't have rudder pedals
> at the time, so that might have been part of it).
>
>> You will hover taxi, land in one square. hover taxi again
>> and keep moving into the different squares. Helps in getting used to the
>> movements with or without wind.
>
> What is hover taxi? I heard helicopter pilots talking about it to
> ATC.
>
>> If you want a really great ship to practice with try the Aircrane. This
>> thing is a monster but it has fully animated parts like a Hose and tanker
>> for fighting fires, and a whinch for moving logs around. Pretty cool stuff.
>
> I'd need to be an octopus to handle all that and still fly the
> aircraft. I don't have enough hands as it is.
>
Hover taxiing is where helicopters with skids follow the taxiways a few
feet off the ground to go from one part of the airfield to another. I
find its a very good way to practise. I can do it pretty well with the
default bell (in FSX with the realism etc set as per hovercontrols
recommendations), but the 412 I downloaded from them is a different
kettle of fish all together. Much more twitchy, but I suspect this is
more realistic.

J.
 >> Stay informed about: Question for MSFS helicopter pilots 

Mxsmanic wrote:
> I've tried panning downwards to see my landing spot, but I get really
> disoriented if I'm not hovering very nicely and very still when I look
> down. I presume this is less disorienting in real life. Is there a
> better way to do this?

Try reducing your zoom to 0.4 when you're landing. That way you get to
see more out the windows and you can tilt the view down a bit and retain
sight of the horizon also.

Si
 >> Stay informed about: Question for MSFS helicopter pilots