Linux question

På Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:41:58 +0200, skrev Polychromic <macecil DeleteThis @gmail.com>:

> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:53:36 +0200, CK <claus DeleteThis @ultima-dragons.org> wrote:
>
>> Words to the wise, Ashikaga <citizenashi DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> *snip before*
>>> Anyways, can you imagine I am one of the more tech-savvy students in
>>> the
>>> class? I actually know DOS!
>>
>> That actually just means you are old :>
>>
>> *snip after*
>
> DOS isn't old. Old is using a slide rule in high school.
> /waits for Optician to make comment involving rocks...

Hey, I used a slide rule. Oh, come to think about it, I actually AM old.
Oh well.

--
Pibbur Dragon ( -==UDIC==-)
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"- Luce, pater tuus sum"
"- Minime! Minime!"
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På Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:42:07 +0200, skrev thehawk <thehawk5150.RemoveThis@gmail.com>:

> On Oct 24, 4:37 pm, Ashikaga <citizena....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> thehawk of the Cavern #85 howled:
>> <snip>
>>
>> > *chuckles* Does that mean the Ashikaga has become your PFY?
>>
>> PFY? What's that? :-/ It has nothing to do with young grasshopper, is
>> it?
>>
>
> "Always two, there are.."
>
Ah. Pimple Faced Yoda.

--
Pibbur Dragon ( -==UDIC==-)
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"- Luce, pater tuus sum"
"- Minime! Minime!"
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Pibbur of the Cavern #27 howled:
> skrev Polychromic:
>> CK wrote:
>>> Words to the wise, Ashikaga wrote:
>>>
>>> *snip before*
>>>> Anyways, can you imagine I am one of the more tech-savvy students in
>>>> the class? I actually know DOS!
>>>
>>> That actually just means you are old :>
>>>
>>> *snip after*
>>
>> DOS isn't old. Old is using a slide rule in high school.
>> /waits for Optician to make comment involving rocks...
>
> Hey, I used a slide rule. Oh, come to think about it, I actually AM old.
> Oh well.

An ESL teacher actually taught us how to use slide rule the first year I
came to this country. Weird, but true.

I also learned how to type with a manual typewriter (which requires
correction paper to erase stuff). Weird, but also true.

--
Ashikaga -a29 1/2 only
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On Oct 24, 4:35 pm, Ashikaga <citizena....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Michael Fleming of the Cavern #76 howled:
>
> > Ashikaga scribed into the Great Tome of Farnarkling:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> Possibly for Claus to answer, but open to everyone who can help me (and
> >> will be very appreciated). I am doing this Linux homework and the
> >> assignment is on creating user account & user group (and the teacher did
> >> very little so usually it's just us students helping each other out, but we
> >> know very little ourselves...). Anyways, suppose I used:
>
> >> usermod -d /home/usr usr
>
> > I hope you didn't do that on a real system - /usr is a standard filesystem
> > location
>
> No..., I didn't. Ashi's IQ isn't falling to the new low (yet...).
>
> >> to move the user "usr" to a new home directory "/home/usr". I realized I
> >> need to see if everything is done correctly so I used:
>
> >> finger usr
>
> >> And indeed I did it correctly.
>
> >> Now the real question is: is there an equivalent for group home directory?
>
> > No - groups are simply lists of users belonging to said group. They don't
> > have a "home" of their own.
>
> That's the impression I got after using Linux for a while searching for the
> answer. Bad question. Some teacher really have to do their own assignment
> first before giving it to students.... Maybe they are using us to find the
> answers.... (which a lot of finance teachers used us to do stocks research
> for them in the disguise of group project...).
>
> > you can set chmod -R .users /home/* but that's as close as you'll get.
>
> I'll try that one out. Thanks!
>
> >> The homework assignment asked to create a home directory for a group and
> >> can you finger a group?
>
> > No - only users (finger or "finger <username>
> > or all users at a host (finger @hostname) - see "man 1 finger"
>
> What you just said would not make any sense before this morning, but there
> was a test today, so I read the textbook through, so I see what you mean
> now. Yay! I feel so accomplished. Anything after @ can be a remote host
> right?
>
> >> Or is there another command to list all the groups
> >> created and show me which group is using which directory?
>
> > The closest is "less /etc/group" and the second question is nonsensical
> > (not your fault, poorly asked query, see rant later in my article)
>
> I found out /less/ is /more/ in Linux.... (okay, bad joke)
>
> <snip>
>
> >> If I just use mkdir to make an directory, how would Linux link that to the
> >> group (and assign the gid).
>
> > The directory permissions are taken from the uid and gid of the user creating
> > the directory. Use chown (change owner) to change uid/gid of the created
> > directory, provided you have rights to do so.
>
> Yes, I can do sudo. But I guess everyone now is preparing for the worse
> now. What? Ashi is using sudo command now? Isn't that going to release a
> lot of havoc in the world? Yeah, I can almost hear you guys saying
> that.... LOL!
>
> Though I learned how to get out of sudo -i, which was the question I
> stumbled the teacher with.... (*sighs*)
>
> >> We cannot use GUI to do the assignment since
> >> we are turning in the output of the command prompt to the teacher....
>
> > Would the teacher be able to mark it accurately in the first place?
>
> > Frankly, your "teacher" is an idiot and has likely never seen a UNIX system.
> > These questions are nonsense and display a fundamental lack of understanding
> > of the content s/he is trying to teach.
>
> She does lack a lot of knowledge to teach this subject. She probably knows
> a little bit of DOS since I see she still carries over some DOS habit over
> that shouldn't be done in Linux... (and before I pointed out .ext is a DOS
> concept, she used DOS extention in the assignment too). Like in the
> assignment, she asked us to use a capitalized letter for user name and
> Ubuntu told me "no no, that's wrong" (okay, that's verbatim). Though BASH
> allowed me to create it anyways....
>
> > I would ask for a teacher that's actually gotten past a login prompt. Really.
> > I shudder to think how many other plain falsehoods you've been taught.
>
> > (I just hope this isn't a university level course, otherwise I am likely
> > to go postal - I'm sick of graduates without even a basic understanding)
>
> You are not alone on this one. My intermediate accounting teacher said the
> same thing. She said graduate students are the worse.... They know
> something but they also don't know what's really being done.
>
> And please calm down before I tell you this..., yes, it's a
> university-level course.... (*duck and cover*)
>
> But the good news is, she is the only one I've had who I feel is not very
> qualified for the material (that's one awfully constructed sentence...).
> She is an okay teacher, but she should teach accounting instead of
> technology stuff.
>
> Just one last thing (*go and wear a full radiation-proof armour*), the last
> question she gave us was to remove a user from a group.... I searched, no
> such command! Can only be done by editing the /etc/groups. It's not a
> substitution for another group, or I'd able to use "usermod -G
> alternativegroup" (IIRC) instead as described in my Linux pocket guide.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Michael / 'punt.
> > (logged into 4 Linux boxes and an OpenBSD shell right now. You'd never
> > guess I was a professional BOFH )
>
> LOL! Now the REAL question, BASH or zsh?
>

EMACS or Vi?

--

-thehawk
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On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 05:31:14 +0200, Pibbur <oopsREM.OVE512 RemoveThis @tele2ca.psno>
wrote:

>På Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:41:58 +0200, skrev Polychromic <macecil RemoveThis @gmail.com>:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:53:36 +0200, CK <claus RemoveThis @ultima-dragons.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Words to the wise, Ashikaga <citizenashi RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> *snip before*
>>>> Anyways, can you imagine I am one of the more tech-savvy students in
>>>> the
>>>> class? I actually know DOS!
>>>
>>> That actually just means you are old :>
>>>
>>> *snip after*
>>
>> DOS isn't old. Old is using a slide rule in high school.
>> /waits for Optician to make comment involving rocks...
>
>Hey, I used a slide rule. Oh, come to think about it, I actually AM old.
>Oh well.

My dad has a few slide rulers. I wonder if they're worth anything. I'd
probably keep at least one and stick it in my "end of the world" emergency
bag. Doesn't need batteries.
--
The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
http://macecil.googlepages.com/index.htm
http://macecil.googlepages.com/safehex.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Linux question 

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:40:49 -0700, Ashikaga <citizenashi.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Pibbur of the Cavern #27 howled:
>> skrev Polychromic:
>>> CK wrote:
>>>> Words to the wise, Ashikaga wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *snip before*
>>>>> Anyways, can you imagine I am one of the more tech-savvy students in
>>>>> the class? I actually know DOS!
>>>>
>>>> That actually just means you are old :>
>>>>
>>>> *snip after*
>>>
>>> DOS isn't old. Old is using a slide rule in high school.
>>> /waits for Optician to make comment involving rocks...
>>
>> Hey, I used a slide rule. Oh, come to think about it, I actually AM old.
>> Oh well.
>
>An ESL teacher actually taught us how to use slide rule the first year I
>came to this country. Weird, but true.

That is weird. I bet the last time I bought a calculator (back when they
didn't let you use them in class) was before you had that teacher.

>I also learned how to type with a manual typewriter (which requires
>correction paper to erase stuff). Weird, but also true.

I still have an old Royal manual typewriter. In college I had a
Smith-Corona electric but I sold it some years ago.
--
The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
http://macecil.googlepages.com/index.htm
http://macecil.googlepages.com/safehex.htm
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Words to the wise, Ashikaga <citizenashi.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> "Since you are creating a directory, you own it and it also has your
>> group as gid".
>
>That makes sense, so one only have one home directory and having group home
>directory would comflict with it I assume?

Well, the groups dont need a directory for they are not users.

>But if you belong to multiple groups (which is possible), then is that home
>directory going to have multiple gid's?

I think you always have a primary group, well, at least on Solaris,
dont know about Linux really.
--
Claus Dragon <clauskick.TakeThisOut@mpsahotmail.com>
=(UDIC)=
d++ e++ T--
K1!2!3!456!7!S a27
"Coffee is a mocker. So, I am going to mock."

- Me, lately.
 >> Stay informed about: Linux question 

On Oct 26, 4:45 am, Polychromic <mace... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 Oct 2007 02:51:22 -0700, thehawk <thehawk5... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Oct 24, 4:35 pm, Ashikaga <citizena... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Michael Fleming of the Cavern #76 howled:
>
> >> > Ashikaga scribed into the Great Tome of Farnarkling:
> >> >> Hi,
>
> >> >> Possibly for Claus to answer, but open to everyone who can help me (and
> >> >> will be very appreciated). I am doing this Linux homework and the
> >> >> assignment is on creating user account & user group (and the teacher did
> >> >> very little so usually it's just us students helping each other out, but we
> >> >> know very little ourselves...). Anyways, suppose I used:
>
> >> >> usermod -d /home/usr usr
>
> >> > I hope you didn't do that on a real system - /usr is a standard filesystem
> >> > location
>
> >> No..., I didn't. Ashi's IQ isn't falling to the new low (yet...).
>
> >> >> to move the user "usr" to a new home directory "/home/usr". I realized I
> >> >> need to see if everything is done correctly so I used:
>
> >> >> finger usr
>
> >> >> And indeed I did it correctly.
>
> >> >> Now the real question is: is there an equivalent for group home directory?
>
> >> > No - groups are simply lists of users belonging to said group. They don't
> >> > have a "home" of their own.
>
> >> That's the impression I got after using Linux for a while searching for the
> >> answer. Bad question. Some teacher really have to do their own assignment
> >> first before giving it to students.... Maybe they are using us to find the
> >> answers.... (which a lot of finance teachers used us to do stocks research
> >> for them in the disguise of group project...).
>
> >> > you can set chmod -R .users /home/* but that's as close as you'll get.
>
> >> I'll try that one out. Thanks!
>
> >> >> The homework assignment asked to create a home directory for a group and
> >> >> can you finger a group?
>
> >> > No - only users (finger or "finger <username>
> >> > or all users at a host (finger @hostname) - see "man 1 finger"
>
> >> What you just said would not make any sense before this morning, but there
> >> was a test today, so I read the textbook through, so I see what you mean
> >> now. Yay! I feel so accomplished. Anything after @ can be a remote host
> >> right?
>
> >> >> Or is there another command to list all the groups
> >> >> created and show me which group is using which directory?
>
> >> > The closest is "less /etc/group" and the second question is nonsensical
> >> > (not your fault, poorly asked query, see rant later in my article)
>
> >> I found out /less/ is /more/ in Linux.... (okay, bad joke)
>
> >> <snip>
>
> >> >> If I just use mkdir to make an directory, how would Linux link that to the
> >> >> group (and assign the gid).
>
> >> > The directory permissions are taken from the uid and gid of the user creating
> >> > the directory. Use chown (change owner) to change uid/gid of the created
> >> > directory, provided you have rights to do so.
>
> >> Yes, I can do sudo. But I guess everyone now is preparing for the worse
> >> now. What? Ashi is using sudo command now? Isn't that going to release a
> >> lot of havoc in the world? Yeah, I can almost hear you guys saying
> >> that.... LOL!
>
> >> Though I learned how to get out of sudo -i, which was the question I
> >> stumbled the teacher with.... (*sighs*)
>
> >> >> We cannot use GUI to do the assignment since
> >> >> we are turning in the output of the command prompt to the teacher....
>
> >> > Would the teacher be able to mark it accurately in the first place?
>
> >> > Frankly, your "teacher" is an idiot and has likely never seen a UNIX system.
> >> > These questions are nonsense and display a fundamental lack of understanding
> >> > of the content s/he is trying to teach.
>
> >> She does lack a lot of knowledge to teach this subject. She probably knows
> >> a little bit of DOS since I see she still carries over some DOS habit over
> >> that shouldn't be done in Linux... (and before I pointed out .ext is a DOS
> >> concept, she used DOS extention in the assignment too). Like in the
> >> assignment, she asked us to use a capitalized letter for user name and
> >> Ubuntu told me "no no, that's wrong" (okay, that's verbatim). Though BASH
> >> allowed me to create it anyways....
>
> >> > I would ask for a teacher that's actually gotten past a login prompt. Really.
> >> > I shudder to think how many other plain falsehoods you've been taught.
>
> >> > (I just hope this isn't a university level course, otherwise I am likely
> >> > to go postal - I'm sick of graduates without even a basic understanding)
>
> >> You are not alone on this one. My intermediate accounting teacher said the
> >> same thing. She said graduate students are the worse.... They know
> >> something but they also don't know what's really being done.
>
> >> And please calm down before I tell you this..., yes, it's a
> >> university-level course.... (*duck and cover*)
>
> >> But the good news is, she is the only one I've had who I feel is not very
> >> qualified for the material (that's one awfully constructed sentence...).
> >> She is an okay teacher, but she should teach accounting instead of
> >> technology stuff.
>
> >> Just one last thing (*go and wear a full radiation-proof armour*), the last
> >> question she gave us was to remove a user from a group.... I searched, no
> >> such command! Can only be done by editing the /etc/groups. It's not a
> >> substitution for another group, or I'd able to use "usermod -G
> >> alternativegroup" (IIRC) instead as described in my Linux pocket guide.
>
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Michael / 'punt.
> >> > (logged into 4 Linux boxes and an OpenBSD shell right now. You'd never
> >> > guess I was a professional BOFH )
>
> >> LOL! Now the REAL question, BASH or zsh?
>
> >EMACS or Vi?
>
> REAL hackers edit their code by directly altering the bit structure stored
> in memory. They don't use editors like all the newbies such as Stallman,
> Steele or Torvalds.
>
> /goes back to causing amusing fluctuations in the World Monetary Fund...

Since when is that? Every 'real hacker' I know is lazy in the
extreme, and will frequently spend three days hammering out code to a
program/script/whatever that will save him/her thirty minutes of work
later.

--

-thehawk
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thehawk of the Cavern #147 howled:
> Polychromic wrote:
>> thehawk wrote:
>>> Ashikaga wrote:
<snip>
>>>> LOL! Now the REAL question, BASH or zsh?
>>
>>>EMACS or Vi?
>>
>> REAL hackers edit their code by directly altering the bit structure stored
>> in memory. They don't use editors like all the newbies such as Stallman,
>> Steele or Torvalds.
>>
>> /goes back to causing amusing fluctuations in the World Monetary Fund...
>
> Since when is that? Every 'real hacker' I know is lazy in the
> extreme, and will frequently spend three days hammering out code to a
> program/script/whatever that will save him/her thirty minutes of work
> later.

Oh come on, Hawkie, you know he is Poly. Polychromic, meet the Hawk. The
Hawk, meet Polychromic.

--
Ashikaga -a29
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Michael Fleming of the Cavern #94 howled:
> Ashikaga scribed into the Great Tome of Farnarkling:
<snip>
>> Just one last thing (*go and wear a full radiation-proof armour*), the last
>> question she gave us was to remove a user from a group.... I searched, no
>> such command! Can only be done by editing the /etc/groups. It's not a
>> substitution for another group, or I'd able to use "usermod -G
>> alternativegroup" (IIRC) instead as described in my Linux pocket guide.
>
> Fact for free: use "vipw" to edit the /etc/passwd (and /etc/shadow) files,
> and "vigr" for /etc/group (and /etc/gshadow). They actually work on a
> tempfile version of the files while you edit and do a sanity check prior
> to a write-out to the edited files. It's very hard to wreck your
> password files with these apps.

Okay, tried it. How do you quit vim??? The instruction on the screen says
type quit [enter] to quit, but I can't!

>>> Cheers,
>>> Michael / 'punt.
>>> (logged into 4 Linux boxes and an OpenBSD shell right now. You'd never
>>> guess I was a professional BOFH )
>>
>> LOL! Now the REAL question, BASH or zsh?
>
> On OpenBSD, ksh (the OBSD derivative of the classic Korn shell, not the
> pdksh from various Linuxen) and zsh/bash on the Linux boxes. zsh
> completion is tres cool, something you need as an add-on to get in bash.
> (ksh assumes you are too hardcore for insta-complete and lets you do it
> yourself )

You know..., I tried to find the zsh in /bin/ but Ubuntu doesn't have
zsh!!! How horrible. (probably easier to support just one shell) BASH is
workable though.

--
Ashikaga -a29
 >> Stay informed about: Linux question 

CK of the Cavern #23 howled:
> Words to the wise, Ashikaga wrote:
>
>>> "Since you are creating a directory, you own it and it also has your
>>> group as gid".
>>
>>That makes sense, so one only have one home directory and having group home
>>directory would comflict with it I assume?
>
> Well, the groups dont need a directory for they are not users.

Okay. Thanks.

>>But if you belong to multiple groups (which is possible), then is that home
>>directory going to have multiple gid's?
>
> I think you always have a primary group, well, at least on Solaris,
> dont know about Linux really.

Wait, that sounds vaguely familiar. Yes, I think each user only have one
primary group.

--
Ashikaga -a29
 >> Stay informed about: Linux question 

thehawk of the Cavern #132 howled:
> Ashikaga wrote:
<snip>
>> LOL! Now the REAL question, BASH or zsh?
>
> EMACS or Vi?

I don't even know how to exit Vim... But I read from textbook EMACS is
powerful, but Vim is simple to use.

--
Ashikaga -a29
 >> Stay informed about: Linux question 

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:40:08 GMT, Ashikaga <citizenashi DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:

>thehawk of the Cavern #132 howled:
>> Ashikaga wrote:
><snip>
>>> LOL! Now the REAL question, BASH or zsh?
>>
>> EMACS or Vi?
>
>I don't even know how to exit Vim... But I read from textbook EMACS is
>powerful, but Vim is simple to use.

IIRC, vim has an "easy mode" but I haven't used it since the early 90s. I
usually chose bash and vi.
--
The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
http://macecil.googlepages.com/index.htm
http://macecil.googlepages.com/safehex.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Linux question