Lasers Question

Roger Connor <raconnor RemoveThis @email.unc.edu> writes:

> If you have a no mana zone of small area - say a 2 hex radius and 2
> hexes high, if you are striking from the area with a magical weapon,
> such that part is within the no mana zone, and part is outside the no
> mana zone, is the part outside the no mana zone "magically"
> operational?
>
> My immediate ruling was [based on location of enchantment on
> specific weapons]
>
> Other ideas, comments?

I'd rule for simplicity: if any part of the attacker is in a no mana
zone, their melee weapons are also not magically active. Saves lots of
dull figuring during combat.

--
\ "When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses |
`\ over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and |
_o__) its speaker a raving lunatic." -- Dresden James |
Ben Finney
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Roger Connor <raconnor RemoveThis @email.unc.edu> writes:

> If you have a no mana zone of small area - say a 2 hex radius and 2
> hexes high, if you are striking from the area with a magical weapon,
> such that part is within the no mana zone, and part is outside the no
> mana zone, is the part outside the no mana zone "magically"
> operational?
>
> My immediate ruling was [based on location of enchantment on
> specific weapons]
>
> Other ideas, comments?

I'd rule for simplicity: if any part of the attacker is in a no mana
zone, their melee weapons are also not magically active. Saves lots of
dull figuring during combat.

--
\ "When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses |
`\ over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and |
_o__) its speaker a raving lunatic." -- Dresden James |
Ben Finney
 >> Stay informed about: Lasers Question 

Roger Connor <raconnor.DeleteThis@email.unc.edu> writes:

> If you have a no mana zone of small area - say a 2 hex radius and 2
> hexes high, if you are striking from the area with a magical weapon,
> such that part is within the no mana zone, and part is outside the no
> mana zone, is the part outside the no mana zone "magically"
> operational?
>
> My immediate ruling was [based on location of enchantment on
> specific weapons]
>
> Other ideas, comments?

I'd rule for simplicity: if any part of the attacker is in a no mana
zone, their melee weapons are also not magically active. Saves lots of
dull figuring during combat.

--
\ "When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses |
`\ over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and |
_o__) its speaker a raving lunatic." -- Dresden James |
Ben Finney
 >> Stay informed about: Lasers Question 

Roger Connor <raconnor.RemoveThis@email.unc.edu> writes:

> If you have a no mana zone of small area - say a 2 hex radius and 2
> hexes high, if you are striking from the area with a magical weapon,
> such that part is within the no mana zone, and part is outside the no
> mana zone, is the part outside the no mana zone "magically"
> operational?
>
> My immediate ruling was [based on location of enchantment on
> specific weapons]
>
> Other ideas, comments?

I'd rule for simplicity: if any part of the attacker is in a no mana
zone, their melee weapons are also not magically active. Saves lots of
dull figuring during combat.

--
\ "When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses |
`\ over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and |
_o__) its speaker a raving lunatic." -- Dresden James |
Ben Finney
 >> Stay informed about: Lasers Question 

Roger Connor <raconnor.RemoveThis@email.unc.edu> writes:

> If you have a no mana zone of small area - say a 2 hex radius and 2
> hexes high, if you are striking from the area with a magical weapon,
> such that part is within the no mana zone, and part is outside the no
> mana zone, is the part outside the no mana zone "magically"
> operational?
>
> My immediate ruling was [based on location of enchantment on
> specific weapons]
>
> Other ideas, comments?

I'd rule for simplicity: if any part of the attacker is in a no mana
zone, their melee weapons are also not magically active. Saves lots of
dull figuring during combat.

--
\ "When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses |
`\ over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and |
_o__) its speaker a raving lunatic." -- Dresden James |
Ben Finney
 >> Stay informed about: Lasers Question 

Ben Finney wrote:
> Roger Connor <raconnor.RemoveThis@email.unc.edu> writes:
>
> > If you have a no mana zone of small area - say a 2 hex radius and 2
> > hexes high, if you are striking from the area with a magical weapon,
> > such that part is within the no mana zone, and part is outside the no
> > mana zone, is the part outside the no mana zone "magically"
> > operational?
> >
> > My immediate ruling was [based on location of enchantment on
> > specific weapons]
> >
> > Other ideas, comments?
>
> I'd rule for simplicity: if any part of the attacker is in a no mana
> zone, their melee weapons are also not magically active. Saves lots of
> dull figuring during combat.

Careful here. No mana does NOT mean non magical. If the item in
question was enchanted by a Power Investiture wizard then the mana
level has no relevence - the sancuary level does. This prevents the
nonsence of no manaing large tracks of land around you and thinking
yourself secure against magic.

Paranoid King: I'm safe; you hear me wizard? This area is no mana.

Power Investiture wizard: Who said I even used mana you idiot
(fireballs
the king). I love these morons who think there is only ONE way to do
magic. Makes them so easy to eliminate from the gene pool.
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David Johnston wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2006 01:36:43 -0800, "Bruce L Grubb" <bgrubb DeleteThis @zianet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Ben Finney wrote:
> >> Roger Connor <raconnor DeleteThis @email.unc.edu> writes:
> >>
> >> > If you have a no mana zone of small area - say a 2 hex radius and 2
> >> > hexes high, if you are striking from the area with a magical weapon,
> >> > such that part is within the no mana zone, and part is outside the no
> >> > mana zone, is the part outside the no mana zone "magically"
> >> > operational?
> >> >
> >> > My immediate ruling was [based on location of enchantment on
> >> > specific weapons]
> >> >
> >> > Other ideas, comments?
> >>> >> I'd rule for simplicity: if any part of the attacker is in a no mana
> >> zone, their melee weapons are also not magically active. Saves lots of
> >> dull figuring during combat.
> >
> >Careful here. No mana does NOT mean non magical. If the item in
> >question was enchanted by a Power Investiture wizard
>
> You mean a priest?

No. All a priest in GURPS is, is someone who has the clerical
investment advantage, a purely *social* advantage. A Power Investiture
wizard is exactly that - a wizard whose magic is not based on Magery
(mana) but rather Power Investiture (sancurary). Note in GURPS ANY
spell caster is a 'wizard' *by definition*.

"A wizard is any user of magic reguardless of any other advanges or
skills. (B234, M5)"
<http://members.aol.com/BruceG6069/GURPS_magic_in_DnD.html>

Also one not even need Power Investiture to do 'divine' magic any more
than one needs to be a mage to do arcane magic - High sancuary will
serve those with no Power Investiture in the same way High mana will
serve non mages. Furthermore "Natural, Alchemic, Fetishes, and Holy
Relics are all items that may not have a wizard behind their creation.
(F22-F28)"
<http://members.aol.com/BruceG6069/GURPS_magic_in_DnD.html>

Some Holy Relics that come to mind are the Holy Grail, Adam's Skull and
the Spear of Destiny. Some intentially made Holy Relics (like the Ark
of the Covenant) could be so powerful as to be like Power Investiture
enchancers kicking up the area around them to normal or even very high
sancuary.
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On 27 Nov 2006 01:36:43 -0800, "Bruce L Grubb" <bgrubb DeleteThis @zianet.com>
wrote:

>
>Ben Finney wrote:
>> Roger Connor <raconnor DeleteThis @email.unc.edu> writes:
>>
>> > If you have a no mana zone of small area - say a 2 hex radius and 2
>> > hexes high, if you are striking from the area with a magical weapon,
>> > such that part is within the no mana zone, and part is outside the no
>> > mana zone, is the part outside the no mana zone "magically"
>> > operational?
>> >
>> > My immediate ruling was [based on location of enchantment on
>> > specific weapons]
>> >
>> > Other ideas, comments?
>>
>> I'd rule for simplicity: if any part of the attacker is in a no mana
>> zone, their melee weapons are also not magically active. Saves lots of
>> dull figuring during combat.
>
>Careful here. No mana does NOT mean non magical. If the item in
>question was enchanted by a Power Investiture wizard

You mean a priest?
 >> Stay informed about: Lasers Question 

Bruce L Grubb wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>
>> Roger Connor <raconnor RemoveThis @email.unc.edu> writes:
>>
>>
>>> If you have a no mana zone of small area - say a 2 hex radius and 2
>>> hexes high, if you are striking from the area with a magical weapon,
>>> such that part is within the no mana zone, and part is outside the no
>>> mana zone, is the part outside the no mana zone "magically"
>>> operational?
>>>
>>> My immediate ruling was [based on location of enchantment on
>>> specific weapons]
>>>
>>> Other ideas, comments?
>>>
>> I'd rule for simplicity: if any part of the attacker is in a no mana
>> zone, their melee weapons are also not magically active. Saves lots of
>> dull figuring during combat.
>>
>
> Careful here. No mana does NOT mean non magical. If the item in
> question was enchanted by a Power Investiture wizard then the mana
> level has no relevence - the sancuary level does. This prevents the
> nonsence of no manaing large tracks of land around you and thinking
> yourself secure against magic.
>
> <Snip>
>
What is a "Power Investiture wizard" and what is a "sanctuary level"?
Roger
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Bruce L Grubb wrote:
>
> No. All a priest in GURPS is, is someone who has the clerical
> investment advantage, a purely *social* advantage. A Power Investiture
> wizard is exactly that - a wizard whose magic is not based on Magery
> (mana) but rather Power Investiture (sancurary). Note in GURPS ANY
> spell caster is a 'wizard' *by definition*.
>
> "A wizard is any user of magic reguardless of any other advanges or
> skills. (B234, M5)"
> <http://members.aol.com/BruceG6069/GURPS_magic_in_DnD.html>
>
> Also one not even need Power Investiture to do 'divine' magic any more
> than one needs to be a mage to do arcane magic - High sancuary will
> serve those with no Power Investiture in the same way High mana will
> serve non mages. Furthermore "Natural, Alchemic, Fetishes, and Holy
> Relics are all items that may not have a wizard behind their creation.
> (F22-F28)"
> <http://members.aol.com/BruceG6069/GURPS_magic_in_DnD.html>
>
> Some Holy Relics that come to mind are the Holy Grail, Adam's Skull and
> the Spear of Destiny. Some intentially made Holy Relics (like the Ark
> of the Covenant) could be so powerful as to be like Power Investiture
> enchancers kicking up the area around them to normal or even very high
> sancuary.
>
>
After having re-read 4e Fantasy pp17-38 dealing with the varieties of
Magic, Gods, Supernatural beings, Spirits etc.as well as finally finding
the reference to Clerical Magic in the side bar of Basic 4e p242 where
"Power Investiture" is described, Yes, Bruce, you do mean someone with
clerical magic -commonly called a priest.

As the sidebar plainly states that this is an ALTERNATIVE form of magic,
it is NOT available in my worlds, and does not apply to the question of
no mana. I try to run religion-free campaigns due to various reasons and
potential problems. For the STANDARD rules, mana is the energy source
for all magic, including clerical.

Incidentally, the measure is "sanctity level' not sanctuary, and in
dealing with opposing gods and areas sanctified by/to them, the "Power
Investiture Wizard" (otherwise known as a cleric) cannot cast spells as
he is in a "no sanctity zone". Throne rooms in particular are usually
"sanctified" (although the rest of the palace typically is not).
Of course, this is based on the Judeo-Christian views on sanctity - that
areas/people "blessed" by the deity have acquired some form of spiritual
enhancement. Those other religions which view the entire world (and
everything in it) as "sacred" causes the opposing views a problem.
Another view, that all existence is a dream of Brahma's causes further
problems. The Buddhist view- there are no "gods" and this is the world
of illusion- creates additional havoc.

regards,
Roger
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In article <C%Gah.4471$1s6.3934@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Roger Connor <night-hunter.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Bruce L Grubb wrote:
> >
> > No. All a priest in GURPS is, is someone who has the clerical
> > investment advantage, a purely *social* advantage. A Power Investiture
> > wizard is exactly that - a wizard whose magic is not based on Magery
> > (mana) but rather Power Investiture (sancurary). Note in GURPS ANY
> > spell caster is a 'wizard' *by definition*.
> >
> > "A wizard is any user of magic reguardless of any other advanges or
> > skills. (B234, M5)"
> > <http://members.aol.com/BruceG6069/GURPS_magic_in_DnD.html>
> >
> > Also one not even need Power Investiture to do 'divine' magic any more
> > than one needs to be a mage to do arcane magic - High sancuary will
> > serve those with no Power Investiture in the same way High mana will
> > serve non mages. Furthermore "Natural, Alchemic, Fetishes, and Holy
> > Relics are all items that may not have a wizard behind their creation.
> > (F22-F28)"
> > <http://members.aol.com/BruceG6069/GURPS_magic_in_DnD.html>
> >
> > Some Holy Relics that come to mind are the Holy Grail, Adam's Skull and
> > the Spear of Destiny. Some intentially made Holy Relics (like the Ark
> > of the Covenant) could be so powerful as to be like Power Investiture
> > enchancers kicking up the area around them to normal or even very high
> > sancuary.
> >
> >
> After having re-read 4e Fantasy pp17-38 dealing with the varieties of
> Magic, Gods, Supernatural beings, Spirits etc.as well as finally finding
> the reference to Clerical Magic in the side bar of Basic 4e p242 where
> "Power Investiture" is described, Yes, Bruce, you do mean someone with
> clerical magic -commonly called a priest.

Again Clerical magic =! priest. It does TEND that way but it is like
saying all wizards are mages.


> As the sidebar plainly states that this is an ALTERNATIVE form of magic,
> it is NOT available in my worlds, and does not apply to the question of
> no mana.

For YOUR world. MY world DOES have deities messing around and therefore
does have sanctity levels. As well as Blessed (Magery ), Blessed (Mana
enhancer) and a few other wrinkles (like a patchwork quilt of TLs from 3
all the way up to 9)


>I try to run religion-free campaigns due to various reasons and
> potential problems.

Which in itself causes problems. Trying to explain a world totally devoid
of religion is a royal pain in the rear.

>For the STANDARD rules, mana is the energy source
> for all magic, including clerical.

GURPS 3e magic tried that. What you wound up with were 'clerical' mages
who had all the limitations of normal mages AND a host of new ones. The
end result was no one in their right mind would become a clerical mage.

Also it doesn't stop some higher level being from Blessing (Mana Enhancer)
everyone that strikes its fancy. Which leaves you right back where you
were.
 >> Stay informed about: Lasers Question 

Roger Connor wrote:
> Bruce Grubb wrote:
> > In article <C%Gah.4471$1s6.3934@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> > Roger Connor <night-hunter DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> <snip>
> >> After having re-read 4e Fantasy pp17-38 dealing with the varieties of
> >> Magic, Gods, Supernatural beings, Spirits etc.as well as finally finding
> >> the reference to Clerical Magic in the side bar of Basic 4e p242 where
> >> "Power Investiture" is described, Yes, Bruce, you do mean someone with
> >> clerical magic -commonly called a priest.
> >>
> >
> > Again Clerical magic =! priest. It does TEND that way but it is like
> > saying all wizards are mages.
> >
> Ok, I'll ask the obvious: At what point does a person that obtains magic
> casting ability from a deity not equate to cleric or priest in game terms.

One has already been mentioned - Blessed (Mana enhancer). Another
would be Blessed (Magery). Either would serve to explain the 3e Magic
originally did 'clerics' in 4e terms though the first is closer to the
spirit than the second.


> And in my world, all wizards ARE mages.

You have not a single high mana area ANYWHERE? Remember in high mana
areas non mages can cast spells that don't require magery to learn.

> >> As the sidebar plainly states that this is an ALTERNATIVE form of magic,
> >> it is NOT available in my worlds, and does not apply to the question of
> >> no mana.
> >>
> >
> > For YOUR world. MY world DOES have deities messing around and therefore
> > does have sanctity levels. As well as Blessed (Magery ), Blessed (Mana
> > enhancer) and a few other wrinkles (like a patchwork quilt of TLs from 3
> > all the way up to 9)
> >
> Your headache!

Not a headache.

> >> I try to run religion-free campaigns due to various reasons and
> >> potential problems.
> >
> > Which in itself causes problems. Trying to explain a world totally devoid
> > of religion is a royal pain in the rear.
> >
> I don't have to explain it- just ignore everything related to religion.

That is next to impossible. Religion is related to so many things
either directly or indirectly that it is not funny. The clock and the
computer both have ties to religion deep in their history for example.

> > Also it doesn't stop some higher level being from Blessing (Mana Enhancer)
> > everyone that strikes its fancy. Which leaves you right back where you
> > were.
> >
> As I am the supreme being as well as all "higher level beings" in all my
> campaigns, it prevents the above from ever occurring.
>
> As once occurred (long ago) in a AD&D game, a cleric drank from a well
> that caused him to change alignment. As a consequence, when the spell
> from the water wore off, he attempted to cast a spell (he had not tried
> to cast previously during the alignment switch)- and his deity said NO
> your spells won't work until you atone for the alignment switches.

Which is a perfect argument against D&D's braindead alignment system
not religon in a campaign.
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David Johnston wrote:
> rOn 27 Nov 2006 05:21:33 -0800, "Bruce L Grubb" <bgrubb.RemoveThis@zianet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >David Johnston wrote:
> >> On 27 Nov 2006 01:36:43 -0800, "Bruce L Grubb" <bgrubb.RemoveThis@zianet.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Ben Finney wrote:
> >> >> Roger Connor <raconnor.RemoveThis@email.unc.edu> writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> > If you have a no mana zone of small area - say a 2 hex radius and 2
> >> >> > hexes high, if you are striking from the area with a magical weapon,
> >> >> > such that part is within the no mana zone, and part is outside the no
> >> >> > mana zone, is the part outside the no mana zone "magically"
> >> >> > operational?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My immediate ruling was [based on location of enchantment on
> >> >> > specific weapons]
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Other ideas, comments?
> >> >>> >> I'd rule for simplicity: if any part of the attacker is in a no mana
> >> >> zone, their melee weapons are also not magically active. Saves lots of
> >> >> dull figuring during combat.
> >> >
> >> >Careful here. No mana does NOT mean non magical. If the item in
> >> >question was enchanted by a Power Investiture wizard
> >>
> >> You mean a priest?
> >
> >No. All a priest in GURPS is, is someone who has the clerical
> >investment advantage, a purely *social* advantage. A Power Investiture
> >wizard is exactly that - a wizard whose magic is not based on Magery
> >(mana) but rather Power Investiture (sancurary). Note in GURPS ANY
> >spell caster is a 'wizard' *by definition*.
> >
> >"A wizard is any user of magic reguardless of any other advanges or
> >skills. (B234, M5)"
>
> As far as I'm concerned, someone empowered with Investment isn't a
> user of magic. He's a beneficiary of divine intervention.

Divine intervention is a totally different thing. See GURPS 3e
Religion for examples until the updated book come out.
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