(LSJ) (Q) Over-influence an Imbued

On Jan 21, 4:38 pm, "Tetragrammaton" <n....DeleteThis@usa.com> wrote:
> "LSJ" <vtes....DeleteThis@white-wolf.com> ha scritto nel messaggionews:Jaxkj.626$uE.369@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>
> > floppyzedolfin wrote:
> >> Hullo
> >> Today's question is :
> >> I influence for 6 on Travis. What precisely happens at the end of my
> >> influence phase? Is it :
>
> >> b - Travis has been influenced enough to get out, so he is moved to
> >> the ready region, where he starts with his starting life amount in
> >> life counter, and my extra influenced counter is lost;
>
> > B.
>
> Just to clear my mind : official ruling states that :
>
> "There is no limit to an Ally's life (if some effect gives an Ally more life
> than it started with, the excess does not drain off).
>
> so, what specific rule is applied to drain off the "life in excess" of
> imbued cost (that is a mere representation of
> their starting life) once he's influenced from the uncontrolled region ?

All of the counters "drain off" when the imbued is influenced into
play. He then recieves his starting life, which is by definition the
amount of life he starts with, and by rule the same amount as the
influence cost printed on the card.

-witness1
 >> Stay informed about: (LSJ) (Q) Over-influence an Imbued 

On Jan 21, 3:55 pm, witness1 <jwnewqu....DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Jan 21, 4:38 pm, "Tetragrammaton" <n....DeleteThis@usa.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "LSJ" <vtes....DeleteThis@white-wolf.com> ha scritto nel messaggionews:Jaxkj.626$uE.369@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>
> > > floppyzedolfin wrote:
> > >> Hullo
> > >> Today's question is :
> > >> I influence for 6 on Travis. What precisely happens at the end of my
> > >> influence phase? Is it :
>
> > >> b - Travis has been influenced enough to get out, so he is moved to
> > >> the ready region, where he starts with his starting life amount in
> > >> life counter, and my extra influenced counter is lost;
>
> > > B.
>
> > Just to clear my mind : official ruling states that :
>
> > "There is no limit to an Ally's life (if some effect gives an Ally more life
> > than it started with, the excess does not drain off).
>
> > so, what specific rule is applied to drain off the "life in excess" of
> > imbued cost (that is a mere representation of
> > their starting life) once he's influenced from the uncontrolled region ?
>
> All of the counters "drain off" when the imbued is influenced into
> play. He then recieves his starting life, which is by definition the
> amount of life he starts with, and by rule the same amount as the
> influence cost printed on the card.

Your reply doesn't really address the issue, though.

There's no rule that says that an ally's life 'drains off'.

Contrast with the rule about over-influencing a vampire: "The vampire
is turned face up and moved to the ready region, untapped. The
counters are kept on him to represent his blood (counters in excess of
his capacity drain off immediately as usual)."

The problem is, there is no 'as usual' draining excess life off an
ally in the rules; allies can certainly have more than their starting
life - the 'capacity' on the imbued isn't a limiting factor either (at
least, once they are in play an imbued can potentially have life
greater than what is in the little green circle.

There is, however, this rule:

(6.1.5) "When an ally is brought into play (by any means), he receives
blood counters from the blood bank to represent his life (listed on
the ally's card)."

So this rule covers it: technically the Imbued would simply discard
the counters placed on them to influence them out (since those
counters are by definition blood and not life) no matter how many
there are, and then receive counters from the blood bank equal to
their starting life.

(Note this rule as written also means that if an ally is contested, he
always comes back into play with his starting life no matter how many
counters were on him when he left play... hm, there has to be some way
to exploit this!)

> -witness1

-John Flournoy
 >> Stay informed about: (LSJ) (Q) Over-influence an Imbued 

On Jan 21, 4:59 pm, LSJ <vtes....DeleteThis@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> John Flournoy wrote:
> > On Jan 21, 3:55 pm, witness1 <jwnewqu....DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> All of the counters "drain off" when the imbued is influenced into
> >> play. He then recieves his starting life, which is by definition the
> >> amount of life he starts with, and by rule the same amount as the
> >> influence cost printed on the card.
>
> > Your reply doesn't really address the issue, though.
>
> > There's no rule that says that an ally's life 'drains off'.
>
> He didn't say the "life" drains off.
>
> He said the counters drain off (with "drain off" in quotes, since it isn't the
> usual usage of drain off -- it simply reflects the reality that the counters are
> returned to the bank).
>
> > There is, however, this rule:
>
> > (6.1.5) "When an ally is brought into play (by any means), he receives
> > blood counters from the blood bank to represent his life (listed on
> > the ally's card)."
>
> > So this rule covers it: technically the Imbued would simply discard
> > the counters placed on them to influence them out (since those
> > counters are by definition blood and not life) no matter how many
> > there are, and then receive counters from the blood bank equal to
> > their starting life.
>
> Um, that's exactly what witness1 said.

Yup. My stupidity there.

> > (Note this rule as written also means that if an ally is contested, he
> > always comes back into play with his starting life no matter how many
> > counters were on him when he left play... hm, there has to be some way
> > to exploit this!)
>
> No, that's not "brought into play" in the sense used in that rule.

So "Brought into play" is something specifically different (and more
limited) than "Enters play". Gotcha.

-John Flournoy
 >> Stay informed about: (LSJ) (Q) Over-influence an Imbued 

"John Flournoy" <carneggy.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4da37bd4-d46e-490e-bbe8-eca7ca00582c@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> > (Note this rule as written also means that if an ally is contested, he
>> > always comes back into play with his starting life no matter how many
>> > counters were on him when he left play... hm, there has to be some way
>> > to exploit this!)
>>
>> No, that's not "brought into play" in the sense used in that rule.
>
> So "Brought into play" is something specifically different (and more
> limited) than "Enters play". Gotcha.

Pointless waste of irony. Silly - didn't you know? "All excess significance
above and beyond that needed to settle the rules question at hand drains off
target."
 >> Stay informed about: (LSJ) (Q) Over-influence an Imbued 

In message <Ug8lj.59795$8j3.3318@tornado.fastwebnet.it>, Tetragrammaton
<none.RemoveThis@usa.com> writes:
>"There is no limit to an Ally's life (if some effect gives an Ally more life
>than it started with, the excess does not drain off).
>
>so, what specific rule is applied to drain off the "life in excess" of
>imbued cost (that is a mere representation of
>their starting life) once he's influenced from the uncontrolled region ?

You're not putting life onto them, they don't have a capacity. You're
paying a cost (represented by the green, not red, circle). When the
cost is met, they become controlled and get their starting life.

By contrast, a vampire turns the blood onto them in the uncontrolled
region into their normal blood.


In theory, there could be a card effect that you let you meet their cost
early, but they could still come out with their starting life. Compare
Tomb, where the vampire comes out with the blood on them.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
 >> Stay informed about: (LSJ) (Q) Over-influence an Imbued 

"LSJ" <vtesrep RemoveThis @white-wolf.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:Jaxkj.626$uE.369@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> floppyzedolfin wrote:
>> Hullo
>> Today's question is :
>> I influence for 6 on Travis. What precisely happens at the end of my
>> influence phase? Is it :
>
>> b - Travis has been influenced enough to get out, so he is moved to
>> the ready region, where he starts with his starting life amount in
>> life counter, and my extra influenced counter is lost;
>
> B.

Just to clear my mind : official ruling states that :

"There is no limit to an Ally's life (if some effect gives an Ally more life
than it started with, the excess does not drain off).

so, what specific rule is applied to drain off the "life in excess" of
imbued cost (that is a mere representation of
their starting life) once he's influenced from the uncontrolled region ?

thanks

Emiliano, NC Italy
 >> Stay informed about: (LSJ) (Q) Over-influence an Imbued 

John Flournoy wrote:
> On Jan 21, 3:55 pm, witness1 <jwnewqu... DeleteThis @bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> All of the counters "drain off" when the imbued is influenced into
>> play. He then recieves his starting life, which is by definition the
>> amount of life he starts with, and by rule the same amount as the
>> influence cost printed on the card.
>
> Your reply doesn't really address the issue, though.
>
> There's no rule that says that an ally's life 'drains off'.

He didn't say the "life" drains off.

He said the counters drain off (with "drain off" in quotes, since it isn't the
usual usage of drain off -- it simply reflects the reality that the counters are
returned to the bank).

> There is, however, this rule:
>
> (6.1.5) "When an ally is brought into play (by any means), he receives
> blood counters from the blood bank to represent his life (listed on
> the ally's card)."
>
> So this rule covers it: technically the Imbued would simply discard
> the counters placed on them to influence them out (since those
> counters are by definition blood and not life) no matter how many
> there are, and then receive counters from the blood bank equal to
> their starting life.

Um, that's exactly what witness1 said.

> (Note this rule as written also means that if an ally is contested, he
> always comes back into play with his starting life no matter how many
> counters were on him when he left play... hm, there has to be some way
> to exploit this!)

No, that's not "brought into play" in the sense used in that rule.
 >> Stay informed about: (LSJ) (Q) Over-influence an Imbued