Instance maps

On 3 Mar, 18:34, lcpltom <lcpl....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Even the current world map only shows people you are grouped with
> (though I think some addons out there let you see guild members you
> aren't grouped with as well).  

Those addons need the guild members to have the addon too (or a
compatible addon). Effectively you frequently tell the other guild
members where you are. The addon catches this and draws your position
on their map.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps 

On Mar 4, 9:17 am, Barry Freeman <b... DeleteThis @nospam.co.uk> wrote:

> I don't know why Blizzard decided not to make instance maps. One
> reason I can think of is that dungeons are commonly multi-leveled.
> Mapping those on a 2D plane is fairly hard, but NO harder than doing
> the map of, say Undercity, or Thunderbluff.

The only instance it annoys me on is Old Hillsbrad, which actually
*is* all on a level as much as any outside zone. It's quite a
nuisance the first time you try to find your way to the entrance half-
way through.

Maybe Blizzard feel in general that a half-uncovered dungeon map would
annoy or confuse players more than it helps them.

- Gerry Quinn
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps 

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:57:23 -0600, "Xymmie" <xymmie DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>But wasn't the discussion about wanting instance maps that show location
>in-game?

Yes, and there's may be some confusion here between those of who know
what an Instance (in programming terms, not Wow) means and those who
don't.

As far as I can see, there is NO reason why instance maps should not
work just like the world maps.

A dungeon 'instance' is a totally separate environment to both the
rest of the game universe and any other instance of that dungeon.

Thats why the group leader can 'reset' the instance. In effect this
creates a new copy of the dungeon with all the mobs at their start
locations.

So, if the dungeon instance is a unique and separate entity, it must
have some coordinate system so the game knows where each player, mob,
herb, mining node, treasure chest, lockbox and so on, actually is.

I don't know why Blizzard decided not to make instance maps. One
reason I can think of is that dungeons are commonly multi-leveled.
Mapping those on a 2D plane is fairly hard, but NO harder than doing
the map of, say Undercity, or Thunderbluff.

I just don't know.. Might be I'll make a post on the Wow technical
forum and see if I can get a Blue response. I can't see any technical
reason why it's not done.
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps 

PV wrote:
> urs.steiner RemoveThis @switzerland.org writes:
>> It's called "information hiding" or "not giving the information through
>> the API". I.e. while stuff programmed by Blizzard has access to the
>> data, "normal" addon programmers don't have access.

> Nah, doesn't make sense. Since DBM can tell you when people are within a
> certain distance, I'm thinking it's not exposed simply because there's no
> usable map overlay. How can the range pane work if it doesn't simply run
> the distance formula through everybody's coordinates? *

that one's easy to answer if you know it.

it's called "maximum range on certain spells/functions". 11 yards/meters
for bandages IIRC. And AFAIK the range detector doesn't work without you
having some bandages around.

One of the other detectable ranges is 5m I think (inspect/trade range)
and the "normal" 30m range of normal casts obviously.

If you had the coordinates, you could write addons which would steer
anyone to a perfect place to stand! You wouldn't need to see if somebody
stood "in your range".

Urs

--
Mano - Orc Shaman 70 - Mining & Jewelcrafter - Slayer of Illidan
Myno - Tauren Bear 70 - Skinning & Herbalism
Ratoma- Troll Rogue 28 - (Dis)Enchantress
Melony - Human Mage 16
and various others
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps 

lcpltom wrote:
> On Mar 3, 9:33 am, Dan <no.spam.here.invalid> wrote:

>> When you are in an instance, you are not in the 'real world' - the
>> world map no longer shows you and the coordinate functions that give
>> you your position in the real world give no useful data. Therefore
>> map add-ons cannot work out your position on the map.
>>
>> I assume this is deliberate - since Blizzard apparently consider
>> exploring the instance to be part of the challenge they don't
>> provide a simple way for add-ons to do it either. Otherwise they'd
>> just enable the standard map to work in instances - the client must
>> have the info to display the mini-map, it just doesn't let add-ons
>> have it.
>>
>> Dan
>
> But the 'real world' has a map that is exposed as you explore it. Why
> not then can you have a dungeon map that is exposed as you explore the
> dungeon?

Because, and I know that's hard to believe, the programmers/Blizzard
don't want you to have this ability. That's it.

It was thus stated by a Blue sometime ago.

Urs

--
Mano - Orc Shaman 70 - Mining & Jewelcrafter - Slayer of Illidan
Myno - Tauren Bear 70 - Skinning & Herbalism
Ratoma- Troll Rogue 28 - (Dis)Enchantress
Melony - Human Mage 16
and various others
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps 

lcpltom <lcpltom.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Mar 3, 9:33 am, Dan <no.spam.here.invalid> wrote:
>> I assume this is deliberate - since Blizzard apparently consider
>> exploring the instance to be part of the challenge they don't
>> provide a simple way for add-ons to do it either. Otherwise they'd
>> just enable the standard map to work in instances - the client must
>> have the info to display the mini-map, it just doesn't let add-ons
>> have it.
>
>But the 'real world' has a map that is exposed as you explore it. Why
>not then can you have a dungeon map that is exposed as you explore the
>dungeon?

There's no reason except that Blizzard have chosen not to allow it.
If they wanted to, they could do it trivially.

Dan
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps 

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 05:57:24 -0800 (PST), gerryq <gerryq.TakeThisOut@indigo.ie>
wrote:

>
>Maybe Blizzard feel in general that a half-uncovered dungeon map would
>annoy or confuse players more than it helps them.

Why should that be? I mean without an addon like Catographer, the
outside maps are foglighted until you go look.
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps 

urs.steiner DeleteThis @switzerland.org writes:
>it's called "maximum range on certain spells/functions". 11 yards/meters
>for bandages IIRC. And AFAIK the range detector doesn't work without you
>having some bandages around.

I don't buy it. DBM has different max ranges for different encounters -
sometimes it's 10, sometimes 15, sometimes 20.

>If you had the coordinates, you could write addons which would steer
>anyone to a perfect place to stand! You wouldn't need to see if somebody
>stood "in your range".

I'd really like to see evidence that DBM uses spell ranges for the distance
frame. It sure doesn't seem to work that way. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps 

On 4 Mar, 18:15, pv+use...@pobox.com (PV) wrote:
> urs.stei... DeleteThis @switzerland.org writes:
> >it's called "maximum range on certain spells/functions". 11 yards/meters
> >for bandages IIRC. And AFAIK the range detector doesn't work without you
> >having some bandages around.
>
> I don't buy it. DBM has different max ranges for different encounters -
> sometimes it's 10, sometimes 15, sometimes 20.
>
> >If you had the coordinates, you could write addons which would steer
> >anyone to a perfect place to stand! You wouldn't need to see if somebody
> >stood "in your range".
>
> I'd really like to see evidence that DBM uses spell ranges for the distance
> frame. It sure doesn't seem to work that way. *

I can't think of any other war that it would work. If you can't get
coordinates then you can't get a distance. I might look at the code
when I get home tonight.

I do agree though - spell ranges seems like an unreliable method. If
you need to be no closer than 10 yards and no further away than 15
yards then you're screwed if your class can't cast a spell on a
friendly that has a max range of 15 yards. Can Rogues even cast any
ability other than bandages on a friendly target?

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps 

On 5 Mar, 10:06, Urs Steiner <inva....DeleteThis@darkstone.ch> wrote:
> steve.kaye wrote:
> > On 4 Mar, 18:15, pv+use...@pobox.com (PV) wrote:
> >> urs.stei....DeleteThis@switzerland.org writes:
> >>> it's called "maximum range on certain spells/functions". 11 yards/meters
> >>> for bandages IIRC. And AFAIK the range detector doesn't work without you
> >>> having some bandages around.
> >> I don't buy it. DBM has different max ranges for different encounters -
> >> sometimes it's 10, sometimes 15, sometimes 20.
>
> http://www.deadlybossmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=82&highlight=range
>
> >>> If you had the coordinates, you could write addons which would steer
> >>> anyone to a perfect place to stand! You wouldn't need to see if somebody
> >>> stood "in your range".
> >> I'd really like to see evidence that DBM uses spell ranges for the distance
> >> frame. It sure doesn't seem to work that way. *
>
> Check the code. Check the forum.
>
> http://www.deadlybossmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=139&highlight=range
>

Well, there you go. That saved me a job tonight

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps 

steve.kaye wrote:
> On 4 Mar, 18:15, pv+use...@pobox.com (PV) wrote:
>> urs.stei....DeleteThis@switzerland.org writes:
>>> it's called "maximum range on certain spells/functions". 11 yards/meters
>>> for bandages IIRC. And AFAIK the range detector doesn't work without you
>>> having some bandages around.
>> I don't buy it. DBM has different max ranges for different encounters -
>> sometimes it's 10, sometimes 15, sometimes 20.

http://www.deadlybossmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=82&highlight=range

>>> If you had the coordinates, you could write addons which would steer
>>> anyone to a perfect place to stand! You wouldn't need to see if somebody
>>> stood "in your range".
>> I'd really like to see evidence that DBM uses spell ranges for the distance
>> frame. It sure doesn't seem to work that way. *

Check the code. Check the forum.

http://www.deadlybossmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=139&highlight=range

last post:
The 15yd range check is based on the range of a Heavy Netherweave
Bandage...so you have to have one of these bandages in your inventory

> I can't think of any other war that it would work. If you can't get
> coordinates then you can't get a distance. I might look at the code
> when I get home tonight.

> I do agree though - spell ranges seems like an unreliable method. If
> you need to be no closer than 10 yards and no further away than 15
> yards then you're screwed if your class can't cast a spell on a
> friendly that has a max range of 15 yards.

AFAIK there hasn't been a fight yet with both minimal AND maximal range
constrictions.

> Can Rogues even cast any
> ability other than bandages on a friendly target?

Yes. Inspect, trade.

Urs

--
Mano - Orc Shaman 70 - Mining & Jewelcrafter - Slayer of Illidan
Myno - Tauren Bear 70 - Skinning & Herbalism
Ratoma- Troll Rogue 28 - (Dis)Enchantress
Melony - Human Mage 16
and various others
 >> Stay informed about: Instance maps