Imperial Naval Command Sub (late 21C setting)...

David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus) wrote:
> I'm a little iffy on this, I think you are going to have to justify
> the ability to communicate from the ocean depths. Only extreemly long wave
> length radio penetrates to a signifigently into sea warter, and that
> doesn't have enought bandwidth for a head quarters. It can sit near
> the surface and to sat comms, but then you loss stelth. You are going
> to have to invent some sort of non electromagnitic commications tech
> such as neutrino or gravational wave based coms.

Would sound waves, transmitted through the water, work? Heavily
encrypted, of course

--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
 >> Stay informed about: Imperial Naval Command Sub (late 21C setting)... 

forkliftramp. com wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:54:26 GMT, "David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)"
> <dformosa DeleteThis @dformosa.zeta.org.au> wrote:
>
> >On 7 Apr 2006 17:24:41 -0700, Johnny1a <shermanlee1 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >[...] What the NCS-U excels at is
> >> information, obtaining it, analyzing, and using it. It carries an
> >> array of Complexity 10 supercomputers which are dedicated to the
> >> admiralty staff, as well as communications equipment able to reach
> >> anywhere in the world and even beyond it
> >
> >I'm a little iffy on this, I think you are going to have to justify
> >the ability to communicate from the ocean depths. Only extreemly long wave
> >length radio penetrates to a signifigently into sea warter, and that
> >doesn't have enought bandwidth for a head quarters. It can sit near
> >the surface and to sat comms, but then you loss stelth. You are going
> >to have to invent some sort of non electromagnitic commications tech
> >such as neutrino or gravational wave based coms.
>
>
> not necessarily. if one for instance had a number of drones you could
> park the drones km away from mama and communicate with them via fibre
> optic cable and then let them broadcast.

That is in fact one of the options. The command ship doesn't always
operate underwater, it can and often does remain on the surface as part
of a surface task force, enabling it to use its comm systems easily.
But if stealth is desired it can and does dive deep, and let floating
buoys, linked to the ship by ultra-thin cables, act as the input and
output antennae or laser transcievers. The cable is tough and light,
and the command sub can carry miles of it on spools, so the location of
the bouy doesn't _automatically_ give you the location of the sub, even
if you find it.

(And the buoy, of course, is designed to have a low radar/sensor
signature. It can certainly be detected, but it isn't necessarily
easy.

When stealth is even more vital, they use a trick whereby the buoy
cable connects to a separate unit on the sea floor (this has a depth
limit, naturally), and that unit links to the submarine by tight-beam
sea-bluegreen laser light. Relays can be used to extend the range,
though that rapidly gets to be impractical. This later technique is
usually used in a situation where an operation can be prepared well
ahead of time, and secrecy is more important than efficiency.

(Note, too, that all the major naval powers have networks of laser and
sonar-communicator relays spread out across the ocean floor, reserved
for wartime/military use, so some of the needed relays are often
already in position ahead of the event. These units are a
highly-guarded secret in terms of location and precise nature.)

See (for one example):

DX3950-T Imperial Sea Floor Relay Station

The major naval powers of the late 21C have all strewn various sensor
stations and relays across the ocean floor, a practice going back to
the late 20th Century and the Cold War period. Various types of device
are used by each power, according to the situation, the preference of
the decision-making authority, and budget constraints. This unit,
officially referred to only as a DX3850-T, is one of the Empire's
mobile versions, basically a robotized sensor-relay station.

In appearance, it looks a little like a metallic robotic crab not quite
nine feet long and a bit under three feet high, with six articulated
'legs'. This is without the layer of camouflage, of course. In use, a
DX3950-T is covered by a somewhat mutable layer of material that
enables it to 'blend in' with its background. On land, this layer
would be pitifully ineffective, but in the inky depths, it works
superbly. When the DX3950-T has retracted its legs within its body,
there is little sign that it is anything but a boulder or a mass of
sediment.

In use, the DX3950-T usually is connected to ultra-thin microcables
that run across the sea floor to other relay stations (both other
DX3950-T and other types, permanent and mobile). It can also connect
by tight-beam sonar communicator to other stations, and by short-range
blue-green lasers (in practice, the range of these lasercoms is about
three miles under good conditions at high depth, the sonar similar.
They could be made to reach further, but secrecy is desirable with such
systems.)

A DX3950-T can connect itself to the cables on its station if it is
sent to replace a removed unit, the 'legs' can act as manipulators with
an effective DX of 8 (which is good enough for their purposes). Once
in place, a DX3950-T can act as a relay for messages and as a
sensor-station, since it has a very sensitive passive sonar system and
other detectors as well. It has active sensors of modest range, but
normally they are never utilized, they are present merely in case they
prove necessary or useful at some point.

For power a DX3950-T uses an NPU and a bank of power cells. The NPU is
normally run at a very, very low level to recharge the power cells,
since the cells are less readily detectable.

The 'brains' of a DX3950-T are three tiny non-neural-net robot brains
of Complexity 3. The tasks of a DX3950-T do not require a lot of raw
processing power or problem-solving capability. The three brains
operate in synchrony, making decisions by majority vote. Normally all
will produce the same output from the same data, if one begins to
produce results consistently out of step with its siblings, the
DX3950-T will tag itself as malfunctioning.

A DX3950-T does have a strong layer of armor, both for protection
against pressure and other dangers and from animal life. These units
are not armed as such, but they do incorporate proprietary and
'sensitive' technologies, so they have self-destruct charges. The
secondary charge is used in peacetime, as a precaution against
sabotage, its detonation inside the hull will turn the interior to
scrap, but leave the armor (usually) intact, containing the blast. In
wartime (or by order of the high command) the primary charge can be
armed, turning a DX3950-T into a dangerous booby-trap for would-be
examiners.


Subassemblies: Vehicle +1, Body +1, 6xLeg -4.

P&P: 10-kW NPU (2 year duration; no access space), two 360,000-kWs
rechargeable power cells, 3-kW legged drivetrain (no access space).

Armor F RL B T U
Body 4/250 4/250 4/250 4/250 4/250
Leg 4/50 4/50 4/50 4/50 4/50

Weaponry Malf Type Damage SS Acc 1/2D yds Max yds
RoF TL
primary destruct charge Crit Exp 6dx750 - 6 0 0 -
10
secondary destruct charge Crit Exp 24d - 6 0 0 -
10

Equipment
Body: six short range sonar communicators (5-mile range; sensitive,
tight beam, scrambler); six short range laser communicators (5-mile
range; sensitive, scrambler, blue-green laser); searchlight (0.5-mile
range); four active sonar systems (1-mile range; active/passive);
geophone (scan 11, 1-mile range); magnetic anomaly detector (scan 11,
1-mile range); four high end visual sensors (acute vision +4,
telescopic zoom +2, color blind, night vision, 360-degree vision);
inertial navigation system; deceptive sonar jammer (jammer rating 5);
three tiny robot brains (complexity 3, +0 DX; compact, hardened, high
capacity); camouflage; extreme sound baffling (-24 hearing modifier);
200mm primary destruct charge (normal HE warhead; self destruct); 35mm
secondary destruct charge (normal HE warhead; self destruct).

Statistics
Size: [LxWxH] 8.87 x 2.22 x 1.11 Payload: 0 lbs. Lwt: 2,300 lbs.
Volume: 21.8 cf

HT: 10 HP: 60 [Body], 0 each [6x Leg].

Ground Performance: Motive Power 0.5-kW, Top Speed 8 mph, gAcc 3 mph/s,
gDec 20 mph/s, gMR 1.5, gSR 3, Ground Pressure 0 lbs./sf, Off Road
Speed 10 mph.

Design Notes:
TL10 robotic medium frame standard materials [Vehicle].
TL10 DR 250 expensive laminate [Body].
TL10 DR 50 expensive composite [6x Leg].
Operating Duration: 13 H 55 M 39 S.
Payload Cost: $643
Vehicle Features: computerized controls, self-sealed, ruggedized,
pressure proofed, waterproofed, no streamlining.
Body: total compartmentalization.


Shermanlee
 >> Stay informed about: Imperial Naval Command Sub (late 21C setting)... 

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:54:26 GMT, "David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)"
<dformosa RemoveThis @dformosa.zeta.org.au> wrote:

>On 7 Apr 2006 17:24:41 -0700, Johnny1a <shermanlee1 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>[...] What the NCS-U excels at is
>> information, obtaining it, analyzing, and using it. It carries an
>> array of Complexity 10 supercomputers which are dedicated to the
>> admiralty staff, as well as communications equipment able to reach
>> anywhere in the world and even beyond it
>
>I'm a little iffy on this, I think you are going to have to justify
>the ability to communicate from the ocean depths. Only extreemly long wave
>length radio penetrates to a signifigently into sea warter, and that
>doesn't have enought bandwidth for a head quarters. It can sit near
>the surface and to sat comms, but then you loss stelth. You are going
>to have to invent some sort of non electromagnitic commications tech
>such as neutrino or gravational wave based coms.


not necessarily. if one for instance had a number of drones you could
park the drones km away from mama and communicate with them via fibre
optic cable and then let them broadcast. another potential option is
a sea penetrating laser pointed at either a drone or a sattelite. i
don't like the laser as it would limit your depth and may be
detectable by hostiles.
 >> Stay informed about: Imperial Naval Command Sub (late 21C setting)... 

That depends on what depth you are at.

There are different thermic layers in the ocean water, and dipping in
and out between them are used by submarine commanders to avoid other
subs locating them, because sounds don't carry that well between the
different layers (for some reason).
I would imagine that a soundbased communicator used in the deep seas
would work quite well, within the thermic layer of the communicator.
Big downside of using it would that you at the same time broadcast your
location, unless there's a lot of other sounds around (which could
potentially scramble the communicaton).
 >> Stay informed about: Imperial Naval Command Sub (late 21C setting)... 

On 14 Apr 2006 05:57:20 -0700, "PhoenixPaw" <phoenixpaw.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>That depends on what depth you are at.
>
>There are different thermic layers in the ocean water, and dipping in
>and out between them are used by submarine commanders to avoid other
>subs locating them, because sounds don't carry that well between the
>different layers (for some reason).
>I would imagine that a soundbased communicator used in the deep seas
>would work quite well, within the thermic layer of the communicator.
>Big downside of using it would that you at the same time broadcast your
>location, unless there's a lot of other sounds around (which could
>potentially scramble the communicaton).

the different layers of water are different temps which makes them
minutely different densities. some (many?) sounds will bounce off the
different density rather than transition through it.
 >> Stay informed about: Imperial Naval Command Sub (late 21C setting)...