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Since: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 463
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:55 pm
Post subject: Ico
Archived from groups: uk>games>video>playstation (more info?)
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Hmm. I don't get it.
Critically acclaimed by everyone who knows videogames, I've finally gotten
around to play it via the recent reissue. And I just don't get it. Granted,
I've only played 40 minutes or so, but I don't see how the controls, combat,
graphics or, well, gameplay is going to improve much later on.
Perhaps it's 'cos it's an old game and I've already played Prince Of Persia
(which, frankly, this seems the poor man's version of). I will say that I'm
mildly impressed with the level design so far and that the puzzles have been
pretty clever, but I see myself getting VERY frustrated with wrestling with
the aforementioned controls, both while navigating the levels and fighting
the bad guys.
I dunno. It's a curiosity at best, but I guess I fall in the "Ico is
massively overrated" camp. I'm too old and busy to play games that a) leave
my hands and fingers hurting and b) have me thinking "I wonder what else I
have to do" while playing them.
I'll give it another couple of hours, but unless things change very soon I
think I'll be returning it uncompleted. A shame really. I wonder if things
improve with SotC?
Shak |
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Posts: 144
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dr. Boggis" <boggissimoron DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:boggissimoron-1B248D.10070427022006@individual.net...
> In article <46eggqFaq6i6U1 DeleteThis @individual.net>, "Shak" <me DeleteThis @privacy.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hmm. I don't get it.
>
> You have no soul, that's your problem.
>
> 
LOL. Yes, for me, Ico was the only game to deliver on Sony's promise of
'emotional gaming' (their 'emotion engine' philosophy). So one does require
a soul to really *feel* Ico, yes. 
I may be stereotyping, but I sneakily feel that anyone who doesn't 'get' Ico
is the sort of person who requires complexity in all areas of their games -
upgrades, stats, complex battle/combos - Ico is the very opposite of games
that rely on such elements. It doesn't need them - less is most definitely
more in the case of Ico. It's the level design that makes this game great -
but also the artistic elements and graphics.....they still blow me away.
You may be joking when saying someone is soulless, and although I wouldn't
go so far as to say that, you may be nearer the mark than you might think.
Ico detractors often call Yorda a dead weight.....a hindrance to Ico. They
often say that in that situation, they'd try to escape on their own - so you
just might have a point. By the end of the game or thereabouts - I honestly,
genuinely cared for Yorda....I know it's silly, it's just a game
character.....but this game managed to tap into my emotions like only one or
two other games ever have. I suppose it isn't that silly, as we often get
emotionally involved with a film or book. I absolutely sobbed my heart out
crying at the 'red coat' scene during Schindler's List.....so I am that sort
of bloke anyway. [I also might admit to a slight glazing of the eye when the
Great Deku Tree died in LOZ:OOT, ahem] |
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Since: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 463
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Slitheen" <the.slitheen.DeleteThis@nospamthanksmam.com> wrote in message
news:Ua%Mf.42102$Fy4.27734@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Dr. Boggis" <boggissimoron.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:boggissimoron-1B248D.10070427022006@individual.net...
>> In article <46eggqFaq6i6U1.DeleteThis@individual.net>, "Shak" <me.DeleteThis@privacy.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm. I don't get it.
>>
>> You have no soul, that's your problem.
>>
>>
>
> LOL. Yes, for me, Ico was the only game to deliver on Sony's promise of
> 'emotional gaming' (their 'emotion engine' philosophy). So one does
> require a soul to really *feel* Ico, yes.
>
> I may be stereotyping, but I sneakily feel that anyone who doesn't 'get'
> Ico is the sort of person who requires complexity in all areas of their
> games - upgrades, stats, complex battle/combos - Ico is the very opposite
> of games that rely on such elements. It doesn't need them - less is most
> definitely more in the case of Ico. It's the level design that makes this
> game great - but also the artistic elements and graphics.....they still
> blow me away.
>
Well this is just it. I don't. My favourite DS game is Ouendan, and I love
Eternal Darkness, POP (when you weren't fighting), MGS and even Shadow Of
The Beast.
I dont have a problem with the concept of the game and like I've mentioned
I've enjoyed the level design so far. I just have a problem with its
execution and especially the controls (which seem unresponsive to me -
notice how you can't "cancel" attacks or don't stop climbing a rope till a
few seconds after you release the direction).
Having said that, I'm still playing - it's just a shame that my hands still
hurt afterwards.
Shak >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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Posts: 144
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Shak" <me.DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:46ll59Farrh5U1@individual.net...
>
> I dont have a problem with the concept of the game and like I've mentioned
> I've enjoyed the level design so far. I just have a problem with its
> execution and especially the controls (which seem unresponsive to me -
> notice how you can't "cancel" attacks or don't stop climbing a rope till a
> few seconds after you release the direction).
>
> Having said that, I'm still playing - it's just a shame that my hands
> still hurt afterwards.
Well, your hands will very likely fall off after playing SOTC then, as Ico
is sublime in comparison. The camera in Ico is a little odd, I must admit,
but *only* by today's standards - they never had the benefit of experience
that today's PS2 dev teams have...that's why Ico has to be judged taking the
time it was made into account. I urge you to finish it though, and would be
very surprised if at the end of it you felt you had not played something
very special indeed. To pick up on a couple of points you made, how can you
cancel an attack if the weapon swings the very instant you press the button?
I'm confused by that comment in particular. I know what you're saying about
the chain climbing, but it does not hinder the game at all.....you tend to
account for it, by stopping the directional push just shy of where you wish
to be on the chain. Ultimately though, I could pick faults like this in
every game ever made, bar none, if I had to look for error. No one said it
was perfect, nothing ever is. It is, however, an extremely popular consensus
that it is one of the best games ever made. Not everyone will feel that
though, as you simply can't please everyone.
I'm just sorry that you never got from it what I did, as it made me feel so
warm inside....that I wish everyone experienced such pleasure from it.
Shame.  >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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Since: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 463
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:55 am
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Slitheen" <the.slitheen.DeleteThis@nospamthanksmam.com> wrote in message
news:snlNf.83$J74.20@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
>
>
> You're obviously relying on memory far older than mine - the day before
> yesterday I completed it again. No battles took half an hour, not *even*
> the final battle with the spirits just before you meet the Queen.
Not Zo, but my latest battle lasted a good 20. I timed it.
> The spirits are dispatched with either one or two blows depending on which
> weapon you upgraded to (one is very much more hidden), if you were relying
> on a wooden stick, then no wonder you found it difficult.
I am using a stick. Perhaps that explains things thus far.
> The puzzles are not in any way ridiculous, they are perfectly logical to
> anyone with a basic level of common sense. If you wish to see what
> illogical, ridiculous puzzles look like, then play any Resident Evil game
> pre RE4.
I agree here. In fact, if they got rid of the spirits altogether I'd like
the game so much more. The only other criticism I have is with the
"fussiness" - you have to sometimes position your characters **precisely**
on an edge or ledge in order to trigger a move or animation.
> At no point in the game do another set of spirits come after you *just*
> after dispatching one lot, unless you never dispatched them all,
LIES. Or perhaps you misunderstood. Again, in my last battle I had "waves"
of 4, 4, 2, 2 spirits with each wave coming after I dispatched the first. I
didn't get all 12 at the same time, and at one point I thought it wouldn't
end and that I was doing something wrong.
> I can assure you, you were either not playing the game correctly, relying
> on vague, fading memories - or were simply playing a different game to the
> one I have only just completed. I know the game inside out, and my own
> memory of it all is quite fresh. Of course though, if that's how you wish
> to remember it, however completely and utterly wrong you are, fine.
Well I'm currently playing it as a new player and not someone who's figured
out the tips and ticks and most efficient way of getting through the game
and has had practice. Perhaps I'm playing the game wrong though - but then
that just makes it more inaccessible than it could have been. Hopefully
things will change with new weapons.
Shak >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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Since: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 463
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:55 am
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Slitheen" <the.slitheen.DeleteThis@nospamthanksmam.com> wrote in message
news:6AlNf.71609$0N1.47795@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>
>
> Well, your hands will very likely fall off after playing SOTC then, as Ico
> is sublime in comparison. The camera in Ico is a little odd, I must admit,
> but *only* by today's standards - they never had the benefit of experience
> that today's PS2 dev teams have...that's why Ico has to be judged taking
> the time it was made into account. I urge you to finish it though, and
> would be very surprised if at the end of it you felt you had not played
> something very special indeed.
I think that is the issue actually - its age. Perhaps I would have
appreciated it more if I had played it 5 years ago. I can see how the
graphics and design were cutting edge at that time (although the controls,
possibly less so).
> To pick up on a couple of points you made, how can you cancel an attack if
> the weapon swings the very instant you press the button? I'm confused by
> that comment in particular.
By moving away. Each stroke takes a while, and in the first you're able to
"buffer" up to two more. There have been times when I've wanted to stop
striking but can't since Ico seems to have taken on a mind of his own. And
it's not just combat - chains and jumping and other actions just seem too...
laggy. It's something I need to get used to, but I dont see why it was kept
in the game since it's a very obvious flaw/feature.
> I know what you're saying about the chain climbing, but it does not hinder
> the game at all.....you tend to account for it, by stopping the
> directional push just shy of where you wish to be on the chain. Ultimately
> though, I could pick faults like this in every game ever made, bar none,
> if I had to look for error. No one said it was perfect, nothing ever is.
> It is, however, an extremely popular consensus that it is one of the best
> games ever made. Not everyone will feel that though, as you simply can't
> please everyone.
Oh sure, and I'm just expressing my opinion. As for popular consensus, I can
see why Ico is so popular (as I can with FIFA as well).
> I'm just sorry that you never got from it what I did, as it made me feel
> so warm inside....that I wish everyone experienced such pleasure from it.
> Shame.
I guess so. Still, there are other games which provide me with pleasure, so
I guess everyone's happy. I was just hoping I was missing something obvious
with Ico. I honestly hope I'll be eating my words in a couple of weeks!
Shak >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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Since: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 144
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Shak" <me.DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:46ns9hFbjbh0U1@individual.net...
> "Slitheen" <the.slitheen.DeleteThis@nospamthanksmam.com> wrote in message
> news:snlNf.83$J74.20@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>>
>>
>>
>> You're obviously relying on memory far older than mine - the day before
>> yesterday I completed it again. No battles took half an hour, not *even*
>> the final battle with the spirits just before you meet the Queen.
>
> Not Zo, but my latest battle lasted a good 20. I timed it.
>
>> The spirits are dispatched with either one or two blows depending on
>> which weapon you upgraded to (one is very much more hidden), if you were
>> relying on a wooden stick, then no wonder you found it difficult.
>
> I am using a stick. Perhaps that explains things thus far.
>
>> The puzzles are not in any way ridiculous, they are perfectly logical to
>> anyone with a basic level of common sense. If you wish to see what
>> illogical, ridiculous puzzles look like, then play any Resident Evil game
>> pre RE4.
>
> I agree here. In fact, if they got rid of the spirits altogether I'd like
> the game so much more. The only other criticism I have is with the
> "fussiness" - you have to sometimes position your characters **precisely**
> on an edge or ledge in order to trigger a move or animation.
>
>> At no point in the game do another set of spirits come after you *just*
>> after dispatching one lot, unless you never dispatched them all,
>
> LIES. Or perhaps you misunderstood. Again, in my last battle I had "waves"
> of 4, 4, 2, 2 spirits with each wave coming after I dispatched the first.
> I didn't get all 12 at the same time, and at one point I thought it
> wouldn't end and that I was doing something wrong.
>
Please don't accuse me of lies...especially in shouty capital letters. You
merely misunderstand, and it is not my intention to "lie". I would consider
the parts of the game you're talking about as a single wave of enemies. I
was addressing Zomoniac's point of saying no sooner had you dispatched some
enemies and tried to get on with the puzzle at hand, a new set
appeared....which simply doesn't happen. There are sections where you get
2-3 lots appearing *immediately* after one and other, but I consider them a
single wave of enemies. Enemies dispatched so easily if you upgrade your
weapon, leaving you free to solve puzzles - and random enemies appear only
when you've left Yorda alone - the trick is, if you can take her with you
somewhere, take her.
People accuse Ico of being a little empty, my god...if you take the spirits
away.......it'd be very empty indeed. Would you take the enemies from Prince
Of Persia? God Of War? Why just Ico? :/
If you would like me tell you how to get a very efficient weapon that most
people miss in the game, just ask me, I'd be happy to help - or go to
Gamefaqs. Spirits are dispatched with a single blow of this weapon, which
would obviously make you enjoy the game more from the sounds of it. >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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Since: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 144
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Shak" <me.TakeThisOut@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:46nsm5Fbts0mU1@individual.net...
> Slitheen" <the.slitheen.TakeThisOut@nospamthanksmam.com> wrote in message
> news:6AlNf.71609$0N1.47795@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>>
>>
>> Well, your hands will very likely fall off after playing SOTC then, as
>> Ico is sublime in comparison. The camera in Ico is a little odd, I must
>> admit, but *only* by today's standards - they never had the benefit of
>> experience that today's PS2 dev teams have...that's why Ico has to be
>> judged taking the time it was made into account. I urge you to finish it
>> though, and would be very surprised if at the end of it you felt you had
>> not played something very special indeed.
>
> I think that is the issue actually - its age. Perhaps I would have
> appreciated it more if I had played it 5 years ago. I can see how the
> graphics and design were cutting edge at that time (although the controls,
> possibly less so).
>
>> To pick up on a couple of points you made, how can you cancel an attack
>> if the weapon swings the very instant you press the button? I'm confused
>> by that comment in particular.
>
> By moving away. Each stroke takes a while, and in the first you're able to
> "buffer" up to two more. There have been times when I've wanted to stop
> striking but can't since Ico seems to have taken on a mind of his own. And
> it's not just combat - chains and jumping and other actions just seem
> too... laggy. It's something I need to get used to, but I dont see why it
> was kept in the game since it's a very obvious flaw/feature.
>
>> I know what you're saying about the chain climbing, but it does not
>> hinder the game at all.....you tend to account for it, by stopping the
>> directional push just shy of where you wish to be on the chain.
>> Ultimately though, I could pick faults like this in every game ever made,
>> bar none, if I had to look for error. No one said it was perfect, nothing
>> ever is. It is, however, an extremely popular consensus that it is one of
>> the best games ever made. Not everyone will feel that though, as you
>> simply can't please everyone.
>
> Oh sure, and I'm just expressing my opinion. As for popular consensus, I
> can see why Ico is so popular (as I can with FIFA as well).
>
>> I'm just sorry that you never got from it what I did, as it made me feel
>> so warm inside....that I wish everyone experienced such pleasure from it.
>> Shame.
>
> I guess so. Still, there are other games which provide me with pleasure,
> so I guess everyone's happy. I was just hoping I was missing something
> obvious with Ico. I honestly hope I'll be eating my words in a couple of
> weeks!
>
> Shak
>
It won't take you weeks. There's only about 12-14 hours for a first run
through, even less. The ending is well worth it all though. Also, make sure
you don't skip the credits at the end...watch it all. >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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Since: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 463
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Slitheen" <the.slitheen DeleteThis @nospamthanksmam.com> wrote in message
news:geFNf.50705$Fy4.19580@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Shak" <me DeleteThis @privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:46nsm5Fbts0mU1@individual.net...
>> Slitheen" <the.slitheen DeleteThis @nospamthanksmam.com> wrote in message
>> news:6AlNf.71609$0N1.47795@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, your hands will very likely fall off after playing SOTC then, as
>>> Ico is sublime in comparison. The camera in Ico is a little odd, I must
>>> admit, but *only* by today's standards - they never had the benefit of
>>> experience that today's PS2 dev teams have...that's why Ico has to be
>>> judged taking the time it was made into account. I urge you to finish it
>>> though, and would be very surprised if at the end of it you felt you had
>>> not played something very special indeed.
>>
>> I think that is the issue actually - its age. Perhaps I would have
>> appreciated it more if I had played it 5 years ago. I can see how the
>> graphics and design were cutting edge at that time (although the
>> controls, possibly less so).
>>
>>> To pick up on a couple of points you made, how can you cancel an attack
>>> if the weapon swings the very instant you press the button? I'm confused
>>> by that comment in particular.
>>
>> By moving away. Each stroke takes a while, and in the first you're able
>> to "buffer" up to two more. There have been times when I've wanted to
>> stop striking but can't since Ico seems to have taken on a mind of his
>> own. And it's not just combat - chains and jumping and other actions just
>> seem too... laggy. It's something I need to get used to, but I dont see
>> why it was kept in the game since it's a very obvious flaw/feature.
>>
>>> I know what you're saying about the chain climbing, but it does not
>>> hinder the game at all.....you tend to account for it, by stopping the
>>> directional push just shy of where you wish to be on the chain.
>>> Ultimately though, I could pick faults like this in every game ever
>>> made, bar none, if I had to look for error. No one said it was perfect,
>>> nothing ever is. It is, however, an extremely popular consensus that it
>>> is one of the best games ever made. Not everyone will feel that though,
>>> as you simply can't please everyone.
>>
>> Oh sure, and I'm just expressing my opinion. As for popular consensus, I
>> can see why Ico is so popular (as I can with FIFA as well).
>>
>>> I'm just sorry that you never got from it what I did, as it made me feel
>>> so warm inside....that I wish everyone experienced such pleasure from
>>> it. Shame.
>>
>> I guess so. Still, there are other games which provide me with pleasure,
>> so I guess everyone's happy. I was just hoping I was missing something
>> obvious with Ico. I honestly hope I'll be eating my words in a couple of
>> weeks!
>>
>> Shak
>>
>
> It won't take you weeks. There's only about 12-14 hours for a first run
> through, even less. The ending is well worth it all though. Also, make
> sure you don't skip the credits at the end...watch it all.
Well you've certainly convinced me to stick with it.... Watch this
thread/space. I'll be thanking you later.
Possibly.
Shak >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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External
Since: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 369
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Slitheen wrote:
> "Rexx Magnus" <trashcan DeleteThis @uk2.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns977B935A9985rexxdeansaund@130.133.1.4...
>
>>On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:35:13 GMT, Slitheen scrawled:
>>
>
> You see, although I really appreciated the smooth flow using NTSC/60hz, I
> found the NTSC colour system to be just so poor compared to PAL, and the
> visible lines you see in the picture using NTSC for games and region 1 DVD's
> always look horrible to me. You could just about get away with PAL in Ico,
> but I wouldn't want to try it with SOTC...which needs all the speed it can
> get, and have been playing that in NTSC. I wish the PS2 did 'PAL 60' like my
> Gamecube, as using real NTSC makes PS2 games look a lot worse off IMO.
> Depending on the pace of the action of each game, I now use my discretion
> with the PS2's 60hz option.
>
I normally avoid using the 60hz option as it seems to fuzz up the
visuals and on-screen text, but it makes CG sequences and gameplay run
MUCH smoother in Shadow.
--
I Amuse (I am Hughes.)
Instead of a sig, here is a magic eye picture. Stare at these dots until
they merge into one.
. .
Great, now piss off you boss-eyed twat! >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 106
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Slitheen <the.slitheen.TakeThisOut@nospamthanksmam.com> wrote:
> <ammonton.TakeThisOut@cc.full.stop.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:duccp7$721$3@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
>> So buy an RGB cable and stop worrying about colour encoding.
> I *do* use an RGB cable (who doesn't? Unless you're using component of
> course), but NTSC looks visibly worse still ...there are less lines of
> resolution/information on screen (480 horizontal lines rather than 576).
> It's not *just* a colour issue.
You originally wrote
> You see, although I really appreciated the smooth flow using
> NTSC/60hz, I found the NTSC colour system to be just so poor compared
> to PAL
.... and complained about the lack of a "PAL60" option. But if you're
using RGB there is no difference between the two.
-a >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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Since: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 144
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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<ammonton DeleteThis @cc.full.stop.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:dulp05$5v5$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> Slitheen <the.slitheen DeleteThis @nospamthanksmam.com> wrote:
>> <ammonton DeleteThis @cc.full.stop.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>> news:duccp7$721$3@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
>
>>> So buy an RGB cable and stop worrying about colour encoding.
>> I *do* use an RGB cable (who doesn't? Unless you're using component of
>> course), but NTSC looks visibly worse still ...there are less lines of
>> resolution/information on screen (480 horizontal lines rather than 576).
>> It's not *just* a colour issue.
>
> You originally wrote
>> You see, although I really appreciated the smooth flow using
>> NTSC/60hz, I found the NTSC colour system to be just so poor compared
>> to PAL
> ... and complained about the lack of a "PAL60" option. But if you're
> using RGB there is no difference between the two.
>
There is though. PAL and NTSC look very much noticeably different....despite
the 'colour lock' of using RGB, there are other issues...like
resolution...there are less lines of horizontal resolution and therefore
even colour is affected, the whole picture is in fact, and it can often look
'pasty' and washed out in NTSC. NTSC is an inferior system, aesthetically
speaking only, to PAL.
Machines that do a PAL60 job, like Gamecube, give you the benefits of 60hz,
with the benefits of a PAL image - almost a perfect marriage of the two
respective benefits. Straight up NTSC, which is what a PAL PS2 does in 60hz
mode, looks worse than PAL - just like R1 DVD's look worse than R2 DVD's....
despite the cable you're using to connect to your TV with (some DVD players
perform differently, however, in how they display NTSC region
discs...perhaps they do a PAL60 job, not sure on the specifics of that...but
I am on how consoles work). >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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External
Since: Feb 10, 2005
Posts: 583
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:44 am
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Slitheen" <the.slitheen RemoveThis @nospamthanksmam.com> wrote in
news:dFMPf.74081$494.12698@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net:
> Machines that do a PAL60 job, like Gamecube, give you the benefits of
> 60hz, with the benefits of a PAL image
Through RGB, there's no differece at all between PAL60 and NTSC. PAL60 is
NTSC frequency and resolution. Only the colour encoding is different, and
that's eliminated by using RGB. >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 106
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:55 am
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Slitheen <the.slitheen.RemoveThis@nospamthanksmam.com> wrote:
> <ammonton.RemoveThis@cc.full.stop.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:dulp05$5v5$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
>> You originally wrote
>>> You see, although I really appreciated the smooth flow using
>>> NTSC/60hz, I found the NTSC colour system to be just so poor compared
>>> to PAL
>> ... and complained about the lack of a "PAL60" option. But if you're
>> using RGB there is no difference between the two.
> There is though. PAL and NTSC look very much noticeably different....despite
> the 'colour lock' of using RGB, there are other issues...like
> resolution...there are less lines of horizontal resolution and therefore
> even colour is affected, the whole picture is in fact, and it can often look
> 'pasty' and washed out in NTSC. NTSC is an inferior system, aesthetically
> speaking only, to PAL.
PAL60 uses the same timings as NTSC, and thus has the same resolution.
The only difference between the two is how the colour is encoded, an
issue which is sidestepped by using RGB or component video. If you think
the Gamecube offers better-quality output than the PS2 it is probably due
to the Gamecube's different approach to anti-aliasing and the output
filtering it has.
-a >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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External
Since: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 144
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Ico [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"James Sutherland" <james DeleteThis @guybrush.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns97816383F6B31jamesguybrushdemonco@216.196.109.144...
> "Slitheen" <the.slitheen DeleteThis @nospamthanksmam.com> wrote in
> news:dFMPf.74081$494.12698@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net:
>
>> Machines that do a PAL60 job, like Gamecube, give you the benefits of
>> 60hz, with the benefits of a PAL image
>
> Through RGB, there's no differece at all between PAL60 and NTSC. PAL60 is
> NTSC frequency and resolution. Only the colour encoding is different, and
> that's eliminated by using RGB.
Indeed....I am in agreement with that, but as I keep trying to make clear,
PS2 doesn't do PAL60, it does pure NTSC only (when in '60hz mode'). That is
why you never see PAL60 actually mentioned in the game literature (apart
from a couple of games...but this was simply error), and it is always
referred to as 'NTSC mode' for PS2 games with a 60hz feature. The PAL PS2 is
physically not equipped to output PAL60, like a Gamecube can - and which
does indeed, as you say, look the same as PAL with an RGB cable (as it is
using the PAL colour system, after all).
And like the chap above says, 'never the same colour twice'. He may sound
like he's joking, but it is a renowned quote - as no two NTSC displays are
the same, it is a very ill conceived colour system. It is famously poorer in
terms of aesthetics. The speed the screen is updated is the only benefit
NTSC has over PAL, and PAL really looks very much better. >> Stay informed about: Ico |
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