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Since: Dec 30, 2005 Posts: 23
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:09 pm
Post subject: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in you Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>dnd (more info?)
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One of my players would like to have this item. He devised it himself.
He wanted something like a bag of holding that wouldn't explode if
brought into a Rope Trick. I told him my house rule is that bags of
holding can be brought into Rope Tricks, but he still wants this. I am
a newbie GM, and I would like to know if anyone sees anything broken
about this. I don't.
Pouch of Items
This appears to be a common, if well made, belt pouch.
The pouch of Items looks like a regular belt pouch
filled with small cloth items. It can hold a total of
15 items at a time.
Weight .5lbs, Cost 8,100gp.
This pouch enables you to cast Shrink Item, unlimited uses. You can
also cast this on magic items, however (as of a Greater Shrink Item
spell). Whoever has possession of the pouch can use it. The
restrictions are:
*Only 15 items can be shrunk at any given time
*14 cubic feet is the maximum size of any given object to be shrunk
Shrink Item
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level
Duration: One day/level; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is
within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in
each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume
and mass). This change effectively reduces the
object's size by four categories. Optionally, you can
also change its now shrunken composition to a
clothlike one. Objects changed by a shrink item spell
can be returned to normal composition and size merely
by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of
command from the original caster. Even a burning fire
and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell. Restoring
the shrunken object to its normal size and composition
ends the spell.
Shrink item can be made permanent with a permanency
spell, in which case the affected object can be shrunk
and expanded an indefinite number of times, but only
by the original caster.
Greater Shrink Item
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Other than the above and the removal of the word
nonmagical from the first line of the spell
description the spell is the same as above. >> Stay informed about: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in y.. |
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Since: Dec 30, 2005 Posts: 23
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Yeah, the Rules of the Game article is why I made the house rule. I
showed him the link, but for whatever reason, he still wants the item.
He's played with it before in somebody else's campaign, so I think the
reason he wants it is that he's used to it.
Some uses that he's suggested to me (that he wants to use it for): To
store a burning campfire; to store a complete gourmet meal, freshly
made; to put found gold or treasure into a chest and shrink the chest.
He hasn't brought up combat issues, but I will discuss with him the
limitations you've mentioned and see what he thinks. Thanks for the
input.  >> Stay informed about: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in y.. |
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Since: May 03, 2005 Posts: 51
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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By the rules the item would cost 4 x 7 x 2000 = 56000 gp. I am not sure
how you came about the 8100 gp price.
A type IV bag of holding can hold 1500 lb or 250 cu ft. It wieghts 60
lb and costs 10000 gp. This belt can hold up to a total of 15 x 14 =
210 cu ft with no weight limit. I would think 8100 gp is a bit too
cheap.
Actually, ALL the potential abuses of shrink item come from the 'no
weight' clause. My suggestion would be to price the item at 10000 x (
210 / 250) x 1.5 [for the 'no weight benefit] = 12600 gp, but limit
the maximum weight of any single shrunk item to be 1500 lb x ( 210 /
250 ) / 15 = 84 lb. The player can still use the belt to store trunks
or so, but the trunks cannot be too large or too heavy (no trunks full
of gold coins -- 4200 coins is the top limit per trunk, not counting
the weight of the trunk itself).
In that case, you would basically have an 'Improved Type IV bag of
holding', which is certainly balanced. >> Stay informed about: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in y.. |
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Since: Feb 23, 2005 Posts: 299
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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ArchitectofSleep wrote:
> One of my players would like to have this item. He devised it
> himself. He wanted something like a bag of holding that wouldn't
> explode if brought into a Rope Trick. I told him my house rule is
> that bags of holding can be brought into Rope Tricks, but he still
> wants this.
For what it's worth, a recent Rules of the Game web article published by
WotC about extradimensional spaces recommends ignoring the ambiguous warning
in Rope Trick's description, and allowing bags of holding to be taken into
it unrestricted, so that house rule is in line with recommended rulings.
> I am a newbie GM, and I would like to know if anyone
> sees anything broken about this. I don't.
>
> Pouch of Items
> This appears to be a common, if well made, belt pouch.
> The pouch of Items looks like a regular belt pouch
> filled with small cloth items. It can hold a total of
> 15 items at a time.
>
> Weight .5lbs, Cost 8,100gp.
>
> This pouch enables you to cast Shrink Item, unlimited uses. You can
> also cast this on magic items, however (as of a Greater Shrink Item
> spell). Whoever has possession of the pouch can use it. The
> restrictions are:
> *Only 15 items can be shrunk at any given time
> *14 cubic feet is the maximum size of any given object to be shrunk
>
> Shrink Item
>
> Transmutation
> Level: Sor/Wiz 3
> Components: V, S
> Casting Time: 1 standard action
> Range: Touch
> Target: One touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level
> Duration: One day/level; see text
> Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
> Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
> You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is
> within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in
> each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume
> and mass). This change effectively reduces the
> object's size by four categories. Optionally, you can
> also change its now shrunken composition to a
> clothlike one. Objects changed by a shrink item spell
> can be returned to normal composition and size merely
> by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of
> command from the original caster. Even a burning fire
> and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell. Restoring
> the shrunken object to its normal size and composition
> ends the spell.
> Shrink item can be made permanent with a permanency
> spell, in which case the affected object can be shrunk
> and expanded an indefinite number of times, but only
> by the original caster.
>
>
> Greater Shrink Item
> Level: Sor/Wiz 4
>
> Other than the above and the removal of the word
> nonmagical from the first line of the spell
> description the spell is the same as above.
Players do occasionally try and get away with odd things with Shrink Item,
like throwing a shrunk boulder over an enemy's head and saying the command
word to unshrink it (which doesn't really work in practice - the spell
description doesn't say the change to normal size is instant, so the item
will most likely just bounce off the enemy onto the floor, then finish
expanding).
With that in mind, I would restrict the item to only shrinking items when
they are touched to the pouch and a command word is spoken, at which point
they shrink and automatically enter the pouch. Saying a second command word
and an item's name causes it to unshrink and appear in the character's hand
if it is light enough to be held, or else on the ground in front of him.
The space restrictions are significantly more limiting than those of a
similar-price Bag of Holding, but as written the pouch has no weight
restriction. That's probably fine, as the numerical restriction on number of
items is extremely limiting. If you add the above restriction you might even
want to knock off a thousand or two GP from the price.
--
Mark. >> Stay informed about: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in y.. |
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Since: Feb 23, 2005 Posts: 299
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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ArchitectofSleep wrote:
> Yeah, the Rules of the Game article is why I made the house rule. I
> showed him the link, but for whatever reason, he still wants the item.
> He's played with it before in somebody else's campaign, so I think the
> reason he wants it is that he's used to it.
>
> Some uses that he's suggested to me (that he wants to use it for): To
> store a burning campfire; to store a complete gourmet meal, freshly
> made; to put found gold or treasure into a chest and shrink the chest.
The first two are cool, but the last one is troublesome because you can
potentially get at least a bit abusive if you start mucking with the
definition of "one item". Is a chest containing 1,000 gp one item, or 1,001
items? Then again, almost anything can be composed of smaller parts, and I
can't think of any major abuses offhand.
--
Mark. >> Stay informed about: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in y.. |
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Since: Dec 30, 2005 Posts: 23
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Well, I heard back from the fellow who devised the item (this is the
same "Search monkey" as mentioned in my other post).
He admits there's no weight limit, and he thinks the dimension
restrictions are good enough (I think).
About the price, he said that he picked it based on how bags of holding
are priced. He priced it halfway between the largest and second
largest BoH sizes (type 3 and type 4). His reasoning is that the max
storage of the Pouch, in terms of volume, is 210 cubic feet, which
falls between the max storage (in terms of dimensions) of the type 3
BoH -- 150 cubic feet -- and the max storage of the type 4 BoH -- 250
cubic feet.
I'm going to have to discuss this with him further. I mean, I don't
think he's planning on abusing it or trying to take advantage of a new
GM, but I would like the item to cost what it's really worth and to
have kinks ironed out before I run with it. Thanks for pointing this
stuff out. >> Stay informed about: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in y.. |
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Since: Dec 30, 2005 Posts: 23
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Aug 25, 2005 Posts: 32
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"WuYanei" <wuyanei RemoveThis @excite.com> wrote in message
news:1141093430.364733.90540@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> By the rules the item would cost 4 x 7 x 2000 = 56000 gp. I am not sure
> how you came about the 8100 gp price.
>
> A type IV bag of holding can hold 1500 lb or 250 cu ft. It wieghts 60
> lb and costs 10000 gp. This belt can hold up to a total of 15 x 14 =
> 210 cu ft with no weight limit. I would think 8100 gp is a bit too
> cheap.
>
> Actually, ALL the potential abuses of shrink item come from the 'no
> weight' clause. My suggestion would be to price the item at 10000 x (
> 210 / 250) x 1.5 [for the 'no weight benefit] = 12600 gp, but limit
> the maximum weight of any single shrunk item to be 1500 lb x ( 210 /
> 250 ) / 15 = 84 lb. The player can still use the belt to store trunks
> or so, but the trunks cannot be too large or too heavy (no trunks full
> of gold coins -- 4200 coins is the top limit per trunk, not counting
> the weight of the trunk itself).
>
> In that case, you would basically have an 'Improved Type IV bag of
> holding', which is certainly balanced.
>
OTOH, it takes a Standard action upon removing the item from the bag to get
something useful. So the bag is more restrictive in that sense. I think its
a neat alternative to a BoH. >> Stay informed about: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in y.. |
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Since: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 376
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 28 Feb 2006 11:59:16 -0800, "ArchitectofSleep"
<turbojenn.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>Well, I heard back from the fellow who devised the item (this is the
>same "Search monkey" as mentioned in my other post).
>
>He admits there's no weight limit, and he thinks the dimension
>restrictions are good enough (I think).
>
>About the price, he said that he picked it based on how bags of holding
>are priced. He priced it halfway between the largest and second
>largest BoH sizes (type 3 and type 4). His reasoning is that the max
>storage of the Pouch, in terms of volume, is 210 cubic feet, which
>falls between the max storage (in terms of dimensions) of the type 3
>BoH -- 150 cubic feet -- and the max storage of the type 4 BoH -- 250
>cubic feet.
The weight is a big issue to me, though. Buy some big chests and
store things in them--while the storage isn't all that accessible you
can haul a *LOT* that way.
Thus I would price it up there with a portable hole.
>I'm going to have to discuss this with him further. I mean, I don't
>think he's planning on abusing it or trying to take advantage of a new
>GM, but I would like the item to cost what it's really worth and to
>have kinks ironed out before I run with it. Thanks for pointing this
>stuff out.
Yeah, any player-created items need a *LOT* of scrutiny. It's bad
enough the stuff that occasionally makes it into print! >> Stay informed about: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in y.. |
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Since: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 376
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 27 Feb 2006 16:09:30 -0800, "ArchitectofSleep"
<turbojenn.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>One of my players would like to have this item. He devised it himself.
> He wanted something like a bag of holding that wouldn't explode if
>brought into a Rope Trick. I told him my house rule is that bags of
>holding can be brought into Rope Tricks, but he still wants this. I am
>a newbie GM, and I would like to know if anyone sees anything broken
>about this. I don't.
>
>Pouch of Items
>This appears to be a common, if well made, belt pouch.
>The pouch of Items looks like a regular belt pouch
>filled with small cloth items. It can hold a total of
>15 items at a time.
>
>Weight .5lbs, Cost 8,100gp.
I would say it's a lot more valuable than a bag of holding as you can
shrink heavy things. >> Stay informed about: Homemade item -- is this broken? would you allow this in y.. |
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