[Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits

On 11 Jun 2004 13:41:05 -0700, lewis.TakeThisOut@lwb.org (Lewis W Beard) wrote:

>All,
>
>I'm wondering what other GMs do about campaign limits (if you have
>any; if not, the question may not apply to you) when it somes to
>Strength?
>
>For example, if there is a campaign limit of 50 active points, and I
>have a character with 50 strength, they have met the campaign limit.
>However, if they take martial arts, they can pick up an offensive
>strike for +4d6 damage, or certainly at least +2d6 damage with combat
>bonuses (martial strike).
>
>However, a character with some non-strength mechanism for their is
>hard capped at 10d6 for a straight up effect of 50 active points.
>That'd be 10d6 vs 14d6 in favor of Ninja Hulk.
>
>What do you do to even these things out? Or do you just let it fly?

I use a version of the CTNM Rule of X rather than active point limits,
but what I did was this: martial DCs and the first two dice of martial
manuevers count against the damage part of the RoX. So if you want to
have a damage component of 12 on your Rox, and want martial strike,
you can't have more than a 50 Strength.
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

"Lewis W Beard" <lewis DeleteThis @lwb.org> wrote in message
news:c581d835.0406111241.5db6dac4@posting.google.com...
>
> What do you do to even these things out? Or do you just let it fly?


When building a hero I try to keep all aspects of my hero that I paid points
for within the campaign limit.

If I buy an advantage on strength that a Hero can use as a Brick Trick, I
only buy enough Strength so that the effective Active Points are
within the limit: Armor Piercing bought as naked advantage for 50 Strength
is effectively 75 Active Points when used in combat. If my Brick had an
80 Str, I'd only buy the advantage for 50 of it (in an 80 limit campaign)

Also I wouldn't give the Brick any Martial Maneuvers that would add more
damage to his Strength, unless his Strength was lower than the campaign
limit.

and, any basic maneuver everyone has for free is pretty much ignorable for
campaign limits because it balances out.

Finally, if his damage is pretty much maximized, I make sure his OCV is on
the low end. Same thing goes for his Defenses and DCV.

-----------
Glacier
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

In article <c581d835.0406111241.5db6dac4.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>,
lewis.DeleteThis@lwb.org (Lewis W Beard) wrote:

> For example, if there is a campaign limit of 50 active points, and I
> have a character with 50 strength, they have met the campaign limit.
> However, if they take martial arts, they can pick up an offensive
> strike for +4d6 damage, or certainly at least +2d6 damage with combat
> bonuses (martial strike).
>
> However, a character with some non-strength mechanism for their is
> hard capped at 10d6 for a straight up effect of 50 active points.
> That'd be 10d6 vs 14d6 in favor of Ninja Hulk.
>
> What do you do to even these things out? Or do you just let it fly?

I usually give a cap on Damage Classes. 50 STR gives the character a 10
DC attack, and the Offensive Strike adds 4 DC for a total of 14 DC. If
the cap was 12 DC (fairly common for a supers game), the character would
need to be toned down.

--
Joe Claffey | "Make no small plans."
jrc3.DeleteThis@cox.net | -- Daniel Burnham
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

Indiana Joe wrote:

> I usually give a cap on Damage Classes. 50 STR gives the character a 10
> DC attack, and the Offensive Strike adds 4 DC for a total of 14 DC. If
> the cap was 12 DC (fairly common for a supers game), the character would
> need to be toned down.

I don't consider extra DCs (as much of) a problem if the come with
a corresponding penalty. It's a parallel to free combat manuevers,
which increase effective DC but reduce OCV/reduce DCV/take and extra
segment/leave the attacker open to martial throw/whatever.


Robert Huff
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

Indiana,

> I usually give a cap on Damage Classes. 50 STR gives the character a 10
> DC attack, and the Offensive Strike adds 4 DC for a total of 14 DC. If
> the cap was 12 DC (fairly common for a supers game), the character would
> need to be toned down.

My problem with this is, what if a character is at the cap and its
pure Strength, and they've been floating there for some time, and they
decide to take martial arts? Do the laws of the universe prevent it? I
always feel awkward as both a GM and a player at this stage. Do you
ask the player to just not do it? Or do you let them take the
maneuvers and use them but still cap the damage?

Lewis
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

On 17 Jun 2004 12:06:43 -0700, lewis.RemoveThis@lwb.org (Lewis W Beard) wrote:

>Indiana,
>
>> I usually give a cap on Damage Classes. 50 STR gives the character a 10
>> DC attack, and the Offensive Strike adds 4 DC for a total of 14 DC. If
>> the cap was 12 DC (fairly common for a supers game), the character would
>> need to be toned down.

>My problem with this is, what if a character is at the cap and its
>pure Strength, and they've been floating there for some time, and they
>decide to take martial arts? Do the laws of the universe prevent it? I
>always feel awkward as both a GM and a player at this stage. Do you
>ask the player to just not do it? Or do you let them take the
>maneuvers and use them but still cap the damage?
>Lewis

One should never feel awkward as a GM for asking (nay, demanding) that
players conform to the campaign limits in effect.

On the other hand, as a player one should feel awkward indeed in
asking to violate those rules.

The laws of the comic book universe don't prevent one from learning
martial arts - but if one is already at a campaign limit, then the
campaign limit rules DO prevent it - or require a solution such as you
mention above, letting them learn the maneuvers while still capping
the damage.

However, if the campaign has been running a while and people are
looking to expand into new areas that would up their DCs, it's
certainly reasonable to discuss whether the campaign limits could be
modified.
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

On 17 Jun 2004 12:06:43 -0700, lewis.DeleteThis@lwb.org (Lewis W Beard) wrote:

>Indiana,
>
>> I usually give a cap on Damage Classes. 50 STR gives the character a 10
>> DC attack, and the Offensive Strike adds 4 DC for a total of 14 DC. If
>> the cap was 12 DC (fairly common for a supers game), the character would
>> need to be toned down.
>
>My problem with this is, what if a character is at the cap and its
>pure Strength, and they've been floating there for some time, and they
>decide to take martial arts?

Uh...you do realise that caps are normally only on starting designs,
right?
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:16:11 GMT, rgormannospam.TakeThisOut@telusplanet.net (David
Johnston) wrote:

>On 17 Jun 2004 12:06:43 -0700, lewis.TakeThisOut@lwb.org (Lewis W Beard) wrote:
>
>>Indiana,
>>
>>> I usually give a cap on Damage Classes. 50 STR gives the character a 10
>>> DC attack, and the Offensive Strike adds 4 DC for a total of 14 DC. If
>>> the cap was 12 DC (fairly common for a supers game), the character would
>>> need to be toned down.
>>
>>My problem with this is, what if a character is at the cap and its
>>pure Strength, and they've been floating there for some time, and they
>>decide to take martial arts?

>Uh...you do realise that caps are normally only on starting designs,
>right?

Perhaps in the campaigns that you are used to - but in the campaigns
I've played in, it's generally an absolute. The OP apparently plays
in campaigns similar to those I'm used to.
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

In article <40d275b2.31181171.TakeThisOut@news.west.earthlink.net>,
quester.TakeThisOut@infionline.net (Harold Groot) wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:16:11 GMT, rgormannospam.TakeThisOut@telusplanet.net (David
> Johnston) wrote:
>
> >On 17 Jun 2004 12:06:43 -0700, lewis.TakeThisOut@lwb.org (Lewis W Beard) wrote:
> >
> >>Indiana,
> >>
> >>> I usually give a cap on Damage Classes. 50 STR gives the character a 10
> >>> DC attack, and the Offensive Strike adds 4 DC for a total of 14 DC. If
> >>> the cap was 12 DC (fairly common for a supers game), the character would
> >>> need to be toned down.
> >>
> >>My problem with this is, what if a character is at the cap and its
> >>pure Strength, and they've been floating there for some time, and they
> >>decide to take martial arts?
>
> >Uh...you do realise that caps are normally only on starting designs,
> >right?
>
> Perhaps in the campaigns that you are used to - but in the campaigns
> I've played in, it's generally an absolute. The OP apparently plays
> in campaigns similar to those I'm used to.
>

I generally leave them on for a while as well. If the group consensus
is to raise them, they get raised. Of course, this means their opponents
can get a boost in power as well...

--
Joe Claffey | "Make no small plans."
jrc3.TakeThisOut@cox.net | -- Daniel Burnham
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

David,

> Uh...you do realise that caps are normally only on starting designs,
> right?

I generally set a cap at the start, and an ultimate campaign cap.
Usually 50 active points in the beginning, and 65 - 75 on the top end,
depending on the campaign.

Thanks to everyone for the responses.

Lewis
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

On 17 Jun 2004 12:06:43 -0700, lewis.RemoveThis@lwb.org (Lewis W Beard) wrote:

>Indiana,
>
>> I usually give a cap on Damage Classes. 50 STR gives the character a 10
>> DC attack, and the Offensive Strike adds 4 DC for a total of 14 DC. If
>> the cap was 12 DC (fairly common for a supers game), the character would
>> need to be toned down.
>
>My problem with this is, what if a character is at the cap and its
>pure Strength, and they've been floating there for some time, and they
>decide to take martial arts? Do the laws of the universe prevent it? I

The laws of the universe apparently prevent them from buying more
combat levels, so why not?

>always feel awkward as both a GM and a player at this stage. Do you
>ask the player to just not do it? Or do you let them take the
>maneuvers and use them but still cap the damage?

Really, _any_ campaign limit is arbitrary; why is this one worse than
any other?
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:16:11 GMT, rgormannospam.RemoveThis@telusplanet.net (David
Johnston) wrote:

>On 17 Jun 2004 12:06:43 -0700, lewis.RemoveThis@lwb.org (Lewis W Beard) wrote:
>
>>Indiana,
>>
>>> I usually give a cap on Damage Classes. 50 STR gives the character a 10
>>> DC attack, and the Offensive Strike adds 4 DC for a total of 14 DC. If
>>> the cap was 12 DC (fairly common for a supers game), the character would
>>> need to be toned down.
>>
>>My problem with this is, what if a character is at the cap and its
>>pure Strength, and they've been floating there for some time, and they
>>decide to take martial arts?
>
>Uh...you do realise that caps are normally only on starting designs,
>right?

Not in my experience they aren't.
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits 

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 04:57:17 GMT, quester RemoveThis @infionline.net (Harold
Groot) wrote:

>>Uh...you do realise that caps are normally only on starting designs,
>>right?
>
>Perhaps in the campaigns that you are used to - but in the campaigns
>I've played in, it's generally an absolute. The OP apparently plays
>in campaigns similar to those I'm used to.

I think this is in fact, more common than he realizes (though in some
campaigns it's also periodically adjusted upwards if the GM is
prepared to move things up a notch).
 >> Stay informed about: [Hero 5th] Strength, Martial Arts, and Campaign Limits