Hellmark - requesting your feedback

Hellmark,

I posted a gun carriers story on my site that really bothered me.
Could you take a look and give feedback? It can be comment on the
site, a post here, or an email directly to me. I figure you know
better than most folks what's up here, as unless I'm misremembering
things badly you are a gun owner/carrier who has had problems because
of that in the past. If I'm remembering the wrong person, forgive me.

I welcome any other replies/comments on this from anyone here, but
Hellmark came to mind as an obvious person capable of intelligent
response when I was working on the post.

http://www.blahblahblahg.com/2006/10/25/do-a-lot-of-gun-owners-act-this-way/
RagManX
--
http://www.blahblahblahg.com/ - Blah about me
http://www.gamepatches.info/ - Just like it says

On 2006-10-26 11:52:29 -0500, Randy Graham <ragmanx RemoveThis @gamerdemos.com> said:
> I posted a gun carriers story on my site that really bothered me.
> Could you take a look and give feedback? It can be comment on the
> site, a post here, or an email directly to me. I figure you know
> better than most folks what's up here, as unless I'm misremembering
> things badly you are a gun owner/carrier who has had problems because
> of that in the past. If I'm remembering the wrong person, forgive me.
> I welcome any other replies/comments on this from anyone here, but
> Hellmark came to mind as an obvious person capable of intelligent
> response when I was working on the post.

No problem, man.

Ok, first off, I am not up to speed on the laws for every state with
carry laws (currently roughly 44 states allow firearms to be carried in
some capacity), but I'll try to do my best. (The numbers before the
paragraphs refer to which quoted section I am refering to.) Personally
I am not able to carry here in Missouri, due to the open carry law
being over ruled by every town and county in the state (when it was
passed eons ago, the law makers left it up to the munies to decide
whether it wanted people carrying), and not old enough yet for a CCW
permit (I'm 22, and Missouri requires you to be 23 to have a permit),
but I did help along with my family for many years to get the CCW law
passed here. (Its hilarious to see congressmen start to scramble to
literally run and hide when they realize the kid coming up to ask them
questions isnt with a school tour, but rather helping lobby for a
somewhat controversial law.).

1-3: On the company policy, it is nice to have that available to the
public if it is allowed or not allowed. Here in Missouri, if your
company does not wish to allow for people to carried concealed in the
building, then a sign explaining such must be put in front of all
entrances (If I remember right, Minnesota has the same restriction). To
me, its only polite to let people know they cannot do something before
they attempt to do it, which in this case carry within the store. As
far as I know from when I've been to Costco, I do not ever remember
seeing a sign stating such, and also do not see any thing to that
effect in the membership rules, making it probably unlikely it is
company policy. As far as your comment goes, to make it seem like
they're going to stop shopping at the place or what not, well, its not
really as far as that. Most of the states have it in the law, that if a
place of business, or any other public accessable building, does not
want people to carry within the premises, that if a person does so,
they can get in a bunch of legal trouble. Here in Missouri, that at
minimum involves permanent revokation of their CCW permit. Its just
nice to know, so they don't end up in handcuffs.

4: Ehh, this is where he kinda gets off for me a bit. From what he
quoted immediate before hand, the guy just asked him to leave his gun
outside of the store. Not quite the same thing as not being welcome to
come there, or to leave the store. However, I'm not fully in agreement
with you either. Without it being in writing, how is he sure if its
actually member rules? The only thing that can really be used against
him, is that they may terminate his membership for any reason at their
discretion, at which point he would not be allowed in the store.

5: Off topic, but, in my experience in having it done so recently, ATM
cards may be refunded electronicly.

6: From what I remember on the law (its been a while since I was active
in trying to get a similar CCW law passed here), if informed of it
being prohibited and asked to comply. Asking for official written
policy, is basically covering his ass.

7: Here, he's just finding humor in intimidating others. It could be
more of what you were saying in that he enjoyed the confrontation, or
just something that large people find humorous sometimes because of the
situation being obsurd.

8-9: As far as here, well, people are scared of the unknown. Most
people anymore have zero knowledge of firearms, laws covering firearms,
etc. Assuming that the author did show his permit right off the bat,
and just never mentioned it, the costco people are still likely going
"OMG! BIG SCARY GUY WITH A GUN!", since they don't know him from Adam.
I'm pretty much in line with your comments though. (Also, as far as I
know, Minnesota law only covers concealed carry, and not open carry. I
might be wrong, but I do know vast majority of the country, even if
there are laws allowing for open carry, other laws nix that and most
CCW permits just protect the CCW rights.)

11: Ok, on the letter, Minnesota law does say, like I said before,
state that gun carry is prohibited in private establishments that have
posted a sign banning guns on their premises, or have personally
informed the permit holder that guns are prohibited and require
compliance. That covers Costco, since it is a private, membership
required, establishment. That letter, complies with the latter have of
that statement. The former (requirement of the sign), effectively
nullifies the latter, except in cases where someone ignores or did not
see the sign. As far as hiding it, if Costco is complying with the
state law, they have a sign up, and isn't really hiding it. I've been
honestly looking in their membership rules, and havent been able to
find it, so it is difficult to see if that is actual Company policy,
but a sign is blatent. My one nit pick is, that the letter is addressed
from the Eden Prairie location, and not Costco headquarters themselves,
which might put some doubt over it saying "We do not modify policy to
each location", since there is no one from HQ in Seattle saying "Dude,
thats company policy". Also, like I said, to further cast doubt, I've
not been able to find anything stating such a policy. But, that is just
for arguments sake, and as far as the law is concerned, he was duly
informed, and thats the end of the story. Next time I am at costco,
I'll try to double check to see if there are signs posted (since
Missouri has the same requirement).

Hopefully this was of some help.