Gunner Position - IL-2 Sturmovik

Steven wrote:
> I'm trying to get into this sim after using Combat Flight Simulator 1
> for many years. Graphics are absolutely amazing.
>
> I have a question. I have the original IL-2 from 2001. Old computer,
> boring story.
>
> I have been told that there is a way to have the AI fly the plane and
> for me to be the gunner in single player missions. As you can tell, I
> am very new to this sim. Can someone explain to me how I would do
> that? Is it a special mission? I suspect I need to create a mission
> with a specific plane and then hit the A key for autopilot? Is there
> anything else I need to do to jump into the gunner position?
>
> Steven

c key will move uou around various positions on aircraft. Your a/c will
be put into autopilot automatically.

Uncas
 >> Stay informed about: Gunner Position - IL-2 Sturmovik 

IL-2 is a very old iteration of the game (not that there's any thing wrong
with that); the version number is, I believe, 1.2.

The current iteration is IL-2 1946 which is ver. 4.7. There's a patch out to
bring it up to 4.08 and the 4.09 patch is already in open beta.

The newer versions give a lot more planes, mission, better graphics and so
on.

But any way......

Start a mission or campaign in a two seater such as most IL-2's, a Me110 or
even a HeIII etc.

You jump from pilot to gunner with the "C" key. You can also assign keys for
each gunner position if you want (otherwise the "C" key just cycles through
the available positions).

You may see a screen message saying something to the effect that "auto pilot
enabled" when you jump to the gunner seat. This means it's under AI control
and you're just a passenger/witness. Press the "A" (auto pilot) key to
disable this in a gunner position and take manual control (it'll revert to
AI control once you vacate the position).

Once you have control then you use the mouse to aim the gun and left click
to fire.

All this works on-line too, though you may have a hard time finding an
on-line game with your version of IL-2.

Seeker



"Steven" <sstahl4006 DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:f63a5a77-4ede-461d-9034-28850ef5016f@m34g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> I'm trying to get into this sim after using Combat Flight Simulator 1
> for many years. Graphics are absolutely amazing.h
>
> I have a question. I have the original IL-2 from 2001. Old computer,
> boring story.
>
> I have been told that there is a way to have the AI fly the plane and
> for me to be the gunner in single player missions. As you can tell, I
> am very new to this sim. Can someone explain to me how I would do
> that? Is it a special mission? I suspect I need to create a mission
> with a specific plane and then hit the A key for autopilot? Is there
> anything else I need to do to jump into the gunner position?
>
> Steven
 >> Stay informed about: Gunner Position - IL-2 Sturmovik 

"seeker" <seeker.RemoveThis@youwhish.com> wrote in message
news:fnia8m$3s0$1@aioe.org...
> IL-2 is a very old iteration of the game (not that there's any thing wrong
> with that); the version number is, I believe, 1.2.

I've played them all. And I think the original game is perhaps the most
difficult of all the versions of the game. I know I had a harder time
flying IL-2 than Forgotten Battles or Pacific Fighters.

>
> The current iteration is IL-2 1946 which is ver. 4.7. There's a patch out
> to bring it up to 4.08 and the 4.09 patch is already in open beta.

Obviously you are 'tuned-in' to the 1946 community in a way I am not. I've
been checking on the offical website a couple of times a month hoping for
the release of the 4.09 patch. I for one would appreciate it if you'd
consider posting a message on this NG when the patch is out of beta and
available for download.

>
> The newer versions give a lot more planes, mission, better graphics and so
> on.

Yup, it does. Unfortunately a lot of those airplanes are of completely
marginal interest to me. I really wish I could have any interest at all in
flying for the red air force, but it's a tough go for me. I realize there
are a lot more allied aircraft available and that' it's not all soviets -
but still, the east front emphasis has always been a real downer for me.

<shrug>

I hope I'll be able to run the upcoming Battle of Britain game and it's new
engine on my existing computer without too much of the eyecandy turned-down
or eliminated.

--
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
 >> Stay informed about: Gunner Position - IL-2 Sturmovik 

"MJB" <mrtinj DeleteThis @OLDsguy.com> wrote in message
news:fnibis02ucb@news5.newsguy.com...
>
> Obviously you are 'tuned-in' to the 1946 community in a way I am not.
> I've been checking on the offical website a couple of times a month hoping
> for the release of the 4.09 patch. I for one would appreciate it if you'd
> consider posting a message on this NG when the patch is out of beta and
> available for download.


Sure


>>
>> The newer versions give a lot more planes, mission, better graphics and
>> so on.
>
> Yup, it does. Unfortunately a lot of those airplanes are of completely
> marginal interest to me. I really wish I could have any interest at all
> in flying for the red air force, but it's a tough go for me. I realize
> there are a lot more allied aircraft available and that' it's not all
> soviets - but still, the east front emphasis has always been a real downer
> for me.


Well, Here I have to admit to a degree of hypocracy. Like you, the eastern
front never really captured my imagination and although I had IL-2 on disk I
ignored it until the release of the "forgotten battles" version which
introduced the Spitfire, amongst other things. Once the the Spit (and USAAF)
planes were modelled it opened up the other theatres and captured my
imagination; as did the subsequent release of the "Pacific fighters" version
with respect to Asia and CV ops. And of course, the blue side gets new
planes with each release just as the Reds do. The Reds got the Spit, the
Blues get the 109K. The Reds get the Tempest, the Blues get the Ta 152C; and
so it goes.

Likewise I was distinctly unimpressed with the idea of the 1946 iteration
with it's "what if" fantasy planes such as the Heinkel Lerche and Ta-183;
but at the same time that release also introduced new maps, map objects,
some aspects of the "BoB" game's flight model and surprisigly expanded the
early war Jap plane set for use in the '30's Sino/Jap conflict. Rightly or
wrongly, the IL-2 series lost it's eastern front focus quite some years ago.

With (AI only) B17's, 24's and 29's; if one is willing to accept the "wrong"
map it's pretty much possible to recreate just about any scenario from about
1935 to 1950 right now; and this is also reflected on-line with the "guts
and glory" server doing it's best to recreate WWI and Warclouds Western
Front recreating 1945 over the Riech.

There's even a few jet servers about, though they have a tendancy to run
softer settings.

Seeker (still looking forward mightly to Bob tho'!)



> <shrug>
>
> I hope I'll be able to run the upcoming Battle of Britain game and it's
> new engine on my existing computer without too much of the eyecandy
> turned-down or eliminated.
>
> --
> MJB
>
> Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
> http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Gunner Position - IL-2 Sturmovik 

"seeker" <seeker DeleteThis @youwhish.com> wrote in message
news:fnid2e$f2v$1@aioe.org...
>
> "MJB" <mrtinj DeleteThis @OLDsguy.com> wrote in message
> news:fnibis02ucb@news5.newsguy.com...
>>
>> Obviously you are 'tuned-in' to the 1946 community in a way I am not.
>> I've been checking on the offical website a couple of times a month
>> hoping for the release of the 4.09 patch. I for one would appreciate it
>> if you'd consider posting a message on this NG when the patch is out of
>> beta and available for download.
>
>
> Sure

Thank you. I check this NG daily. And have been awaiting for the release
of the new patch before I re-install 1946.

>
>
> Likewise I was distinctly unimpressed with the idea of the 1946 iteration
> with it's "what if" fantasy planes such as the Heinkel Lerche and Ta-183;
> but at the same time that release also introduced new maps, map objects,
> some aspects of the "BoB" game's flight model and surprisigly expanded the
> early war Jap plane set for use in the '30's Sino/Jap conflict.

So they could give another opponent for the red airforce IMO. Not because
anybody I knew was really thrilled about flying Nates and Claudes against
Ratas and Moscas. But their target audience was probably thrilled about it.
Ditto for flying the 'mud-moving' missions in manchuria with Pe-2s. Yawn.

> Rightly or wrongly, the IL-2 series lost it's eastern front focus quite
> some years ago.

I agree that the IL-2 series is not just a eastern front simulator and
hasn't been for a long time. But whenever I play it I cannot think that as
an American I am NOT the target audience and that percieved bias is somewhat
irritating. I know all about the reasons and accept that, but still it
makes IL-2 and it's bretheren unsatisfying.

I also have begun to have real issues with the 'closed nature' of the game
engine. No modding - no new aircraft, no new maps - nothing that would
address this 'percieved bias' by the IL-2 community is allowed. It is
verbotten - what you have is what Maddox gives. And frankly, flying a
Spitfire over the Crimera is NOT the same as flying a spitfire over the
English Channel. Nor is flying a P-47 on a ramrod mission to Kiev the same
thing as flying one to the Ruhr valley with the recognizable landmarks along
the way to guide your path to the target.

<shrug>

Frankly playing IL-2 'off map' just sorts of ruins the 'immersion' effect
for me. Others probably feel differently than me.

--
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
 >> Stay informed about: Gunner Position - IL-2 Sturmovik 

"MJB" <mrtinj DeleteThis @OLDsguy.com> wrote in message
news:fniefh0kl7@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> Thank you. I check this NG daily. And have been awaiting for the release
> of the new patch before I re-install 1946.

No need to wait. Probably due to it's age, IL-2 doesn't really install as
such, it's just a file copy. So you can make a fresh install and zip it up.
Mess about with your install, delete the whole folder, and unzip your
original and you're good to go again.


> I agree that the IL-2 series is not just a eastern front simulator and
> hasn't been for a long time. But whenever I play it I cannot think that
> as an American I am NOT the target audience and that percieved bias is
> somewhat irritating. I know all about the reasons and accept that, but
> still it makes IL-2 and it's bretheren unsatisfying.


This puzzles me. Who do you think is the target audience for any version
past 1.2? Why should any one nationality be the target audience? How is such
a thing defined? Following this line, will the next BoB game only be
marketed to Empire subjects and axis inhabitants?

It's true that new releases of IL-2 are usually released in Europe first,
then the US, but that's the french publisher's responsibility (Ubi), not
Maddox.

Actualy, the subject of nationalism and the internet depresses me. I thought
the whole idea of anonymous WWW access was that we can't hear the accents
nor see the skin colour, just judge the contents of the message. But we
digress

>
> I also have begun to have real issues with the 'closed nature' of the game
> engine. No modding - no new aircraft, no new maps - nothing that would
> address this 'percieved bias' by the IL-2 community is allowed. It is
> verbotten - what you have is what Maddox gives. And frankly, flying a
> Spitfire over the Crimera is NOT the same as flying a spitfire over the
> English Channel. Nor is flying a P-47 on a ramrod mission to Kiev the
> same thing as flying one to the Ruhr valley with the recognizable
> landmarks along the way to guide your path to the target.

Sadly, this is no longer the case. The game has been cracked, and
extensively so. While this may be good news to offliners, it could well
amount to the kiss of death to onliners a la MSCFS3. see here for more
details: http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/ To my knowledge, no FM hacks
have been found in the wild yet, but it's probably only a matter of time. A
hosting server can block mods by eneabling the "checkruntime=2" key, but
that locks the server/client to the same OS (i.e. the server runs Vista, you
have to too) and so is not widely in use.

Maddox have stated that recoding to prevent the use of mods online is what's
delaying the release of the 4.09 patch (tho' as I said, the patch is in
public beta).


> Frankly playing IL-2 'off map' just sorts of ruins the 'immersion' effect
> for me. Others probably feel differently than me.

I sympathize, as flying a Hurricane from a tiny island off the coast of
France isn't the same as flying over Biggin hill. However, until sims a)
enable world wide google earth plug ins for terrain and b) back date it to
the 1940's then we're always going to have to compromise somewhat. For me at
least it's been a price worth paying to ensure that my opponent is using the
same FM as me.

I have flown modded sims in the past, such as EAW, but I found that firstly
one spent more time buggereing about with mods than flying, and secondly I
soon became discouraged when faced with 109 E's with quad 108 cannons.

Given the choice between modding and a predictable FM; I've always gone for
the predictable FM.

Seeker
 >> Stay informed about: Gunner Position - IL-2 Sturmovik 

>> Given the choice between modding and a predictable FM; I've always gone
>> for the predictable FM.
>>
>
> Just to completely expose my utter ignorance - I don't even know what this
> 'FM' is you speak of. Unless, of course, you might 'flight model' then I
> completely understand.
>
> --
> MJB

Sorry, yes, I was referring to flight model.

But the mods available on the link I posted are quite extensive. Gyro gun
sights on Spits, for example. This may well be historicaly correct (well, it
would be on a Mk XIV, not a Mk V); but it's a hack nontheless. 6 DOF track
IR, when the cockpits were made for a fixed POV and therefor enabling 6 DOF
gives you a glass cockpit in may areas as the cockpit graphics arent drawn
out side the fixed POV.

All in all it's a mess

Seeker

>
> Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
> http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Gunner Position - IL-2 Sturmovik 

"seeker" <seeker.RemoveThis@youwhish.com> wrote in message
news:fnim5n$fh1$1@aioe.org...
>
> Sorry, yes, I was referring to flight model.

No need to be sorry. I thought I understood what you were saying, just
wished to have it confirmed.

>
> But the mods available on the link I posted are quite extensive. Gyro gun
> sights on Spits, for example. This may well be historicaly correct (well,
> it would be on a Mk XIV, not a Mk V); but it's a hack nontheless. 6 DOF
> track IR, when the cockpits were made for a fixed POV and therefor
> enabling 6 DOF gives you a glass cockpit in may areas as the cockpit
> graphics arent drawn out side the fixed POV.
>
> All in all it's a mess

I agree - which is why I can see your POV as being correct. But I also
bemoan that closed-off nature of the IL2 engine as well. Because I do think
that the EAW and CFS2 community has shown that wisdom of the group can and
does weed-out those inaccuracies over time. I've flown modded games for
both those engines and I do myself know an awful lot about the aircraft of
the period in question. Mostly because I spent over two years researching
and doing the physics to translate the actual reality into a miniature air
combat game involving little bitty models of planes on a tabletop. And in
general, I been pretty satisfied with the mods for EAW and CFS2 for Off-line
play.

<shrug>

Computer gaming is just a recreation for me anyway. Not a ruling passion.

--
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
 >> Stay informed about: Gunner Position - IL-2 Sturmovik