Growing food in a TL 13 society

In article <WzDgg.239203$P01.143394@pd7tw3no>,
"Joe and Barb Dugggan" <jbduggan DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote:

> What advances have been made in food growth in a TL 13 society.
> Is just genetically engineered food? Is it something else?
> Any cool ideas would be appreciated.

Scientists are already making headway in growing tissue on carbon non-tube
frameworks. The goal is to re-grow tissue that has be damaged (like heart
muscles). Some have speculated that they could grow meat this way in the future.
A room full of meat just "growing" there could be really cool and potentially
misinterpreted with amusing results.
--
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts and minds of men? The Shadow do!
--Flip Wilson
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

In article <evil-5DD420.12531704062006 DeleteThis @sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Kent Allard <evil DeleteThis @hearts_of_men.net> wrote:

> carbon non-tube

Carbon nano-tubes...
--
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts and minds of men? The Shadow do!
--Flip Wilson
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

julian814 wrote:
> Joe and Barb Dugggan wrote:
> > I am running a Space based Campaign in which the players have found a TL 13
> > hide away outpost hidden under the Martian soil.
> > I was wondering what type of food processing they would have in a place
> > like that?
> > What advances have been made in food growth in a TL 13 society.
> > Is just genetically engineered food? Is it something else?
> > Any cool ideas would be appreciated.
> >
> > Also what type of mundane things could be in a place like this?
> >
> > Any links to site that have this type of thing would be cool.
> >
> > Thanks for the help
>
> I'd imagine by TL 13 there'd be "replicator" technology, ways to
> rearrange basic plant material into whatever food is desired. If so,
> the plants could be just about anything - grow weeds and have the
> replicator turn them into something tastier and more nutritious.
>
>
> Ralph Glatt

I would imagine that most of the raw material used in replicator
technology (probably more a transmuter rather than creating something
form nothing) would derive from bacteria vats. Whole thing could be
closed system with little loss when coupled with the sanitation system.
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

Wylie wrote:
> julian814 wrote:
> > Joe and Barb Dugggan wrote:
> > > I am running a Space based Campaign in which the players have found a TL 13
> > > hide away outpost hidden under the Martian soil.
> > > I was wondering what type of food processing they would have in a place
> > > like that?
> > > What advances have been made in food growth in a TL 13 society.
> > > Is just genetically engineered food? Is it something else?
> > > Any cool ideas would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > Also what type of mundane things could be in a place like this?
> > >
> > > Any links to site that have this type of thing would be cool.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the help
> >
> > I'd imagine by TL 13 there'd be "replicator" technology, ways to
> > rearrange basic plant material into whatever food is desired. If so,
> > the plants could be just about anything - grow weeds and have the
> > replicator turn them into something tastier and more nutritious.
> >
> >
> > Ralph Glatt
>
> I would imagine that most of the raw material used in replicator
> technology (probably more a transmuter rather than creating something
> form nothing) would derive from bacteria vats. Whole thing could be
> closed system with little loss when coupled with the sanitation system.

Shoot, at TL 13 you'd think maybe they could just chuck in a few rocks
and use CO2 from the air. Or wire people so they created their own
food internally powered by Y rays beamed through the air to all tax
paying citizens. TL 13 is a freaking high TL level.
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

These are great ideas keep them coming.

Thanks
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:08:22 GMT, "Joe and Barb Dugggan"
<jbduggan RemoveThis @shaw.ca> wrote:

>I am running a Space based Campaign in which the players have found a TL 13
>hide away outpost hidden under the Martian soil.
>I was wondering what type of food processing they would have in a place
>like that?
>What advances have been made in food growth in a TL 13 society.
>Is just genetically engineered food? Is it something else?
>Any cool ideas would be appreciated.
>
>Also what type of mundane things could be in a place like this?
>
>Any links to site that have this type of thing would be cool.
>
>Thanks for the help
>

hmm tech level 13 enclosed life support system. there are questions
best left unasked if you ever expect to face the caesar salad again.
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

On 5 Jun 2006 07:05:52 -0700, "Wylie" <wylie72 DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>
>julian814 wrote:
>> Joe and Barb Dugggan wrote:
>> > I am running a Space based Campaign in which the players have found a TL 13
>> > hide away outpost hidden under the Martian soil.
>> > I was wondering what type of food processing they would have in a place
>> > like that?
>> > What advances have been made in food growth in a TL 13 society.
>> > Is just genetically engineered food? Is it something else?
>> > Any cool ideas would be appreciated.
>> >
>> > Also what type of mundane things could be in a place like this?
>> >
>> > Any links to site that have this type of thing would be cool.
>> >
>> > Thanks for the help
>>
>> I'd imagine by TL 13 there'd be "replicator" technology, ways to
>> rearrange basic plant material into whatever food is desired. If so,
>> the plants could be just about anything - grow weeds and have the
>> replicator turn them into something tastier and more nutritious.
>>
>>
>> Ralph Glatt
>
>I would imagine that most of the raw material used in replicator
>technology (probably more a transmuter rather than creating something
>form nothing) would derive from bacteria vats. Whole thing could be
>closed system with little loss when coupled with the sanitation system.

now you see what happens when you ask questions like this
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

On 5 Jun 2006 17:01:34 -0700, "Inez" <savagemouse123 RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Wylie wrote:
>> julian814 wrote:
>> > Joe and Barb Dugggan wrote:
>> > > I am running a Space based Campaign in which the players have found a TL 13
>> > > hide away outpost hidden under the Martian soil.
>> > > I was wondering what type of food processing they would have in a place
>> > > like that?
>> > > What advances have been made in food growth in a TL 13 society.
>> > > Is just genetically engineered food? Is it something else?
>> > > Any cool ideas would be appreciated.
>> > >
>> > > Also what type of mundane things could be in a place like this?
>> > >
>> > > Any links to site that have this type of thing would be cool.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for the help
>> >
>> > I'd imagine by TL 13 there'd be "replicator" technology, ways to
>> > rearrange basic plant material into whatever food is desired. If so,
>> > the plants could be just about anything - grow weeds and have the
>> > replicator turn them into something tastier and more nutritious.
>> >
>> >
>> > Ralph Glatt
>>
>> I would imagine that most of the raw material used in replicator
>> technology (probably more a transmuter rather than creating something
>> form nothing) would derive from bacteria vats. Whole thing could be
>> closed system with little loss when coupled with the sanitation system.
>
>Shoot, at TL 13 you'd think maybe they could just chuck in a few rocks
>and use CO2 from the air. Or wire people so they created their own
>food internally powered by Y rays beamed through the air to all tax
>paying citizens. TL 13 is a freaking high TL level.

I think replicators are boring and inartistic. I see TL 13
"agriculture" consisting of things like a genetically engineered
semi-sentient tree that when you ask for any kind of fruit, flowers,
and fruits in a minute or so, producing ripe fruit of any or multiple
kinds ready to eat. Meat can be grown on sessile animals. Only a
peasant would eat replicator food.
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

julian814 <julian814 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> Joe and Barb Dugggan wrote:
>> I am running a Space based Campaign in which the players have found a TL 13
>> hide away outpost hidden under the Martian soil.
>> I was wondering what type of food processing they would have in a place
>> like that?
>> What advances have been made in food growth in a TL 13 society.
>> Is just genetically engineered food? Is it something else?
>
> I'd imagine by TL 13 there'd be "replicator" technology, ways to
> rearrange basic plant material into whatever food is desired. If so,
> the plants could be just about anything - grow weeds and have the
> replicator turn them into something tastier and more nutritious.

At TL 13 you probably don't even have to grow the food. Just make new,
tasy, nutritious food straight from the CO2 in the atmosphere, water
and whatever minerals you like to find in your food. Or from the
waste of the people who consumed it previously. Add energy, rearrange
molecules, and you're done.


mcv.
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

Ingo Siekmann wrote:

>
> AFAIK, the basics did not changed that much - dig a hole, put a seed in
> it, wait a few months and pray for luck.
>
> Bye
> Ingo

It's hard to make reasonable speculations about agriculture _in
isolation_, since developmnets in other areas can be vitally important.
For ex, agriculture today is similar in principle to what it was
thousands of years ago, but things like mechanization and the Haber
process have transformed it in detail.

Agriculture might remain recognizably about specific plants, for ex,
but genetic engineering could transform the plants. A TL13 field might
be be very dark green, the result of more efficient photosynthetic
processes. Or what are not perennials might become annuals (a wheat
tree?). The actual farming might be performed by microbots (my gut
hunch is that science fiction has overestimated the importance of
nanobots in the future, and underestimated the importance of merely
very small (rat to insect sized) machines). Future superplants might
suppress weed growth near them, for ex, by their own biochemistry, too.

(Of course the weeds would adapt themselves over time, too.)

Or perhaps the old SF standby of the yeast-based cusine might be
workable. That strikes me as a better bet than 'assemblers' making the
food from raw elements, to be honest. I have very little faith in
Drexler's visions.

Agriculture is energy-intense in both the sense of mechanization and
growth. A remarkab le amount of solar energy is required by plants,
supplying it artificially would require large power sources, but plants
might be made more efficient. Alternatively or in tandem, one might
grow food in greenhouses simple to maximize control of externals like
temperature and humidity and to minimize pests. It's not economic
today, it might become so.

As other posters have observed, meat might conceivably (though far from
certainly) be 'grown' in factory-like environments, too.

But two factors to keep in mind is that intensive agriculture today is
highly dependent on convenient, concentrated energy supplies (i.e.
petroleum). That's how we've gone from a society in which ~50% of the
population work in direct agriculture to a situation in whcih a tiny
fraction grows more food than the 50% once did. We replaced large
numbers of poeple with machines and chemicals.

A TL13 agricultural system would probably be intimately linked to
external technologies, it would be far more than just a matter of the
food itself.
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

Bruce Grubb schrieb:
-snip
> TL(x+y) that is equivalent to whatever TL13 you plan on using.
>
> Each brings with it own set of idea and concepts.

Which brings up another question - is our current agriculture really TL
8, or is it TL (1+7), or maybe Tl (3+5)?

AFAIK, the basics did not changed that much - dig a hole, put a seed in
it, wait a few months and pray for luck.

Bye
Ingo
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

Joe and Barb Dugggan wrote:
> I am running a Space based Campaign in which the players have found a TL 13
> hide away outpost hidden under the Martian soil.
> I was wondering what type of food processing they would have in a place
> like that?
> What advances have been made in food growth in a TL 13 society.
> Is just genetically engineered food? Is it something else?
> Any cool ideas would be appreciated.
>
> Also what type of mundane things could be in a place like this?
>
> Any links to site that have this type of thing would be cool.
>
> Thanks for the help
>
>
You might have two or three styles of agriculture. The most common
would be a machine that recombines different elements to make the
desired food, maybe using nanomachines. The second would be growing
real food using hydroponics and vats for those rich enough to want
something exotic. The last may be food grown much as it is today for
the really rich and have enough room to grow them or can have them
transported to them.
There will probably always be those who want something more primitive
and different than what is available in the stores. They may normally
eat the food available from a replicator and have the more exotic
sources used for special events to impress people.
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society 

On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:24:45 GMT, "Michael W. Ryder"
<_mwryder RemoveThis @worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Joe and Barb Dugggan wrote:
>> I am running a Space based Campaign in which the players have found a TL 13
>> hide away outpost hidden under the Martian soil.
>> I was wondering what type of food processing they would have in a place
>> like that?
>> What advances have been made in food growth in a TL 13 society.
>> Is just genetically engineered food? Is it something else?
>> Any cool ideas would be appreciated.
>>
>> Also what type of mundane things could be in a place like this?
>>
>> Any links to site that have this type of thing would be cool.
>>
>> Thanks for the help
>>
>>
>You might have two or three styles of agriculture. The most common
>would be a machine that recombines different elements to make the
>desired food, maybe using nanomachines. The second would be growing
>real food using hydroponics and vats for those rich enough to want
>something exotic. The last may be food grown much as it is today for
>the really rich and have enough room to grow them or can have them
>transported to them.
>There will probably always be those who want something more primitive
>and different than what is available in the stores. They may normally
>eat the food available from a replicator and have the more exotic
>sources used for special events to impress people.


we're also assuming that people at tl 13 still eat the way we think of
it.
 >> Stay informed about: Growing food in a TL 13 society