Grognard coming back to 40k- need 1500pt SM list comments

Hi folks,

It's literally been twelve years since I've played my last 40k game.
Back then the 2e Orks codex hadn't been released, and the space wolves
and Eldar Codex were at the height of their cheesiness.

So.... I happen to pick up an old 3e rulebook and I kinda like the
changes I see. I pick up the 4e space marines codex and it looks even
better. So I decide to plunge back in a bit. First, I have a couple
of questions regarding just what I really "need," then I'd like
comments on a sample SM list I cobbled together. Any help would be
much appreciated.

Firstly- I really like the price point of the Battle for Macragge
boxset, but I really don't feel like buying both it and the complete 4e
rulebook. I really don't care if I'm missing a bunhc of 'Eavy Metal
pictures, but I'm a big fan of 40k fluff. Is there enough new, good
fluff in the 4e rulebook that would interest a 2e grognard that has
already read the 3e rulebook fluff? I'm under the impression that the
rules section is complete in the Battle for Macragge box, so I think
the fluff is the real tilting point- is it worth getting the rulebook
for?

Now for the List I threw together. All comments welcome.

Chapter Traits: Trust in your Battle Brothers, Cleanse and Purify
Drawbacks: Aspire to Glory, Faithful Unto Death

131 Master with Combat shield, Bionics, Plasma Pistol, CCW, Jump Pack,
Meltabombs

161 Epistolery with Combat Shield, Bionics, bolt pistol, Veil of Time

255 5 Terminators, 2 Assault Cannons, Tank Hunters special skill,
mounted on LRC

268 Land Raider Crusader with Smoke Launchers

230 10 Assault Marines, 2 plasma pistols

200 10 Tactical Marines with True Grit, Counterattack, 2 Plasma Guns

200 10 Tactical Marines with True Grit, Counterattack, 2 Plasma Guns,
Mounted on Rhino

054 Rhino with Smoke Launchers, Searchlight
===
1499 points

I'm second-guessing the true grit/counterattack purchase, and the Land
Raider/Termies are AWFULLY expensive, so I'm betting this list is
pretty flawed, but what the hell- I'd like to hear it from you guys.

"Puggins" <falejano.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1156198339.962988.97000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi folks,

> Firstly- I really like the price point of the Battle for Macragge
> boxset, but I really don't feel like buying both it and the complete 4e
> rulebook. I really don't care if I'm missing a bunhc of 'Eavy Metal
> pictures, but I'm a big fan of 40k fluff. Is there enough new, good
> fluff in the 4e rulebook that would interest a 2e grognard that has
> already read the 3e rulebook fluff? I'm under the impression that the
> rules section is complete in the Battle for Macragge box, so I think
> the fluff is the real tilting point- is it worth getting the rulebook
> for?

The 4e rulebook is a nice quality hardback book with lots of color
illustrations. The fluff section is about 60 pages so it's got quite a bit
more than the 3e book. As expected, the fluff repeats almost everything
that was in the 3e book but also expands on most of it and includes stuff
that wasn't in the 3e book at all (Necron, Tau, Battle for Armageddon,
Gothic War, Black Crusades, etc.). The book also includes rules for playing
Combat Patrol (mini battles) and Kill-Team (raid missions using a handfull
of miniatures).

I think the 4e rulebook is worth the $ but you should try to flip through a
friend's or a store's copy first to decide if you want to buy it.

> Now for the List I threw together. All comments welcome.
>
> Chapter Traits: Trust in your Battle Brothers, Cleanse and Purify
> Drawbacks: Aspire to Glory, Faithful Unto Death
>
> 131 Master with Combat shield, Bionics, Plasma Pistol, CCW, Jump Pack,
> Meltabombs

In close combat you want weapons that let you ignore the enemy's armor save
like a power weapon, power fist, thunder hammer, lightning claws, etc. I'd
swap the CCW and Plasma Pistol (he won't be shooting that much anyways) for
a Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol. Also give him frag grenades. If you can
scrape up another 15 points consider Terminator Honors.

> 161 Epistolery with Combat Shield, Bionics, bolt pistol, Veil of Time

He needs transport or he'll never get to close combat where you want him.
You could drop a man from the rhino squad and let him ride with them. Ditto
on the Terminator Honors.

> 255 5 Terminators, 2 Assault Cannons, Tank Hunters special skill,
> mounted on LRC
>
> 268 Land Raider Crusader with Smoke Launchers

Expensive but tough and nasty. In 3rd addition Assault Cannons stunk so GW
decided to "fix" (read "overcompensate") them by boosting their number of
shots and giving them the Rending special rule. One or the other would have
been fine but by doing both GW ended up making the Assault Cannon by far the
best weapon in the Space Marine arsenal. So taking lots of Assault Cannons
is good. But this is a lot of points/eggs in one basket...

> 230 10 Assault Marines, 2 plasma pistols

Once again you want power weapons in close combat. Consider upgrading the
sergeant and giving him a power weapon.

> 200 10 Tactical Marines with True Grit, Counterattack, 2 Plasma Guns

Troops with short range need transport. Get them a drop pod or rhino.
Alternately you could consider dropping the size to 5 men with a Lascannon
and Plasma Gun and have them hold your deployment zone and plink away at the
enemy.

> 200 10 Tactical Marines with True Grit, Counterattack, 2 Plasma Guns,
> Mounted on Rhino
>
> 054 Rhino with Smoke Launchers, Searchlight

Needs Extra Armor upgrade. Always take Smoke Launchers and Extra Armor
upgrades for all your vehicles.

> ===
> 1499 points
>
> I'm second-guessing the true grit/counterattack purchase, and the Land
> Raider/Termies are AWFULLY expensive, so I'm betting this list is
> pretty flawed, but what the hell- I'd like to hear it from you guys.

It's not a terrible list for a first draft. True grit will come in handy
when your guys pop out of their transports, rapid fire, and then get charged
the next turn. The Termi/Crusader combo is nice but you're right that it's
a bit expensive for this size of game which make it a little risky.
Terminators can always deep strike so they don't need a transport (plus they
can move and fire heavy weapons so they do ok just walking across the board
too). You could drop the Crusader if you wanted and pay for the upgrades I
mention above and add in a Dreadnaught with Assault Cannon and/or Speeder(s)
with Assault Cannons and/or a couple more small tac squads with lascannons
for some long range shooting.


--

-smithdoerr