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Now in German | NetHack auf deutsch

 
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Janis Papanagnou

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Since: Aug 11, 2004
Posts: 853



(Msg. 31) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Now in German | NetHack auf deutsch [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>nethack (more info?)

Ohle Claussen wrote:
> On 2008-01-28, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>>Martin Read wrote:
>>>"Tony Crawford" <tc13.RemoveThis@kuerbis.dnsalias.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>It does. You're right. Same for all the non-animal "corpses". One can
>>>>only conclude that they've been left that way in a humorous vein.
>>
>>>I would tend to choose "laziness and notational convenience" as the
>>>most likely explanation. The notation keeps it perfectly clear that
>>>this is a foodstuff comprising the unprocessed mortal remains of a
>>>former opponent, ally, or bystander of a certain sort, rather than of
>>>some more wholesome manner of victuals, and it means less code to
>>>write.
>>
>>One could, of course, have used "remains" in English, and the
>>appropriate translantion of that in German.
>
> Sounds lots more elegant. Pluralization would be just a little bit more
> complicated (as in "non-standard"), though. "The remains of two lichens
> / Die Überreste zweier Flechten" as opposed to "Two lichen corpses /
> Zwei Flechtenleichen".

You mean too complicated in English or in German?
The German one might just be "Zwei Flechtenüberreste".

Janis

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Ohle Claussen

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Since: Oct 15, 2007
Posts: 84



(Msg. 32) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Now in German | NetHack auf deutsch [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 2008-01-28, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> Ohle Claussen wrote:
>> On 2008-01-28, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>>>One could, of course, have used "remains" in English, and the
>>>appropriate translantion of that in German.
>>
>> Sounds lots more elegant. Pluralization would be just a little bit more
>> complicated (as in "non-standard"), though. "The remains of two lichens
>> / Die Überreste zweier Flechten" as opposed to "Two lichen corpses /
>> Zwei Flechtenleichen".
>
> You mean too complicated in English or in German?
> The German one might just be "Zwei Flechtenüberreste".

So you'd have to either implement compound nouns or go with the scheme above,
which I *think* is the only way to use "remains" in english. Still a special
case. I guess it's up to the developers of the translated versions to decide
which solution is more maintainable.

--
Ohle Claussen | GPG-Key-ID E7149169
----------===========----------
BOFH Excuse #198:
Post-it Note Sludge leaked into the monitor.

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Tony Crawford

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Since: Oct 31, 2007
Posts: 8



(Msg. 33) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:04 am
Post subject: Re: Now in German | NetHack auf deutsch [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>nethack, others (more info?)

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:32:00 +0100, Kent Paul Dolan <xanthian RemoveThis @well.com>
wrote:

> There's a good argument for shredding out NetHack's
> language-based interaction code into a
> professional-style internationalized mechanism,
> (which I do _not_ know how to do, but have watched
> being done, the problem has a by now well known
> solution), which would be very different code from
> the existing rat's nest of "?:" switching, creating
> the needed executable build/makefile mechanisms to
> accommodate locale switches at build time, and
> merging each new localization into the existing
> NetHack code base as an added dataset/codeset,
> rather than splintering NetHack into incompatible
> code trees as is now happening.
>
> That way new releases could be offered ongoing to
> the translation team, and a next release be entirely
> internationalized from the start.

That would be nice, and probably good for the program,
but not easy. At best, some of the ?: operators, like
the checks for "you're blind" and "you're hallucinating",
may come up often enough
that it would be worth creating some mechanism to
handle them systematically. But on the whole you'll
have to move all of those pick-your-choice operatoins
up above the output statements, and be left with a
great big table of complete variations on the output
string just for one statement of program code.

It may be an advantage that the strings themselves will
then be fairly readable, having only one or two %s
placeholders for a monster and/or an object. On
the other hand, however, the strings will all have to
be referenced by self-explanatory names
in order to keep the source code human-readable.

And speaking of %s placeholders, the
internationalization should also insert an abstract
"morph-a-(noun, verb, adjective, ...)-for-this-
particular-usage" layer. The morphological
transformations necessary will not only be different
for every language, but will also require
different kinds of information from the calling function,
so plugging in different languages still won't be
super-simple.

Tony

--
When we dance around drunk in our underwear,
we don't ask ourselves any questions.
--Sawaki Kōdō roshi
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