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GalCiv2: spending question

 
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alexti

External


Since: Jan 23, 2005
Posts: 114



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:55 pm
Post subject: GalCiv2: spending question
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>strategic (more info?)

There's something strange in respect to spending that I've noticed. The
manual seems to say that if I set spending to 100% I will be using all my
production and research capacity. But it seems that setting spending to
100% only gives you ???

I've started a new game with custom race that has no production or research
bonuses. At the start I have 24mp and 24tp. I immediately set spending
(Industrial Capacity:) to 100% and start to build something social and
something military. I also set military to 0%, social to 50% and research
to 50%. This gives me 24 bc of spending (+1 bc for maintenance). Production
is 13 (I assume 12 + 10% capital bonus) and research is 12, so it looks
that they're exactly at 50% of capacity. Interesting that if I don't set
any social production, the social spendings are still charged (but I
believe that is known issue).

Than I buy 2 factories, bringing mp to 40. With 50% social, 50% research
I'm getting (before bonuses) 20 social production and 12 research (exactly
half of my capacities).

So it appears that there's a research spending rate which is {spending-
industrial capacity}*{spending distribution-research rate} and social and
military rates which are {spending-industrial capacity}*{spending
distribution-social/military rate}. I'm not sure why industrial capacity
spending affects research rate, but apparently it does. Somehow (from the
manual?) I would expect just 3 sliders: research spending rate which is
between 0-100% (of research capacity) and independent from other sliders
and social and military sliders which are also between 0-100% (of
manufacturing capacity), but constrained by condition that their total <=
100%.

In my test game I got tile with 100% resource bonus, so now I buy factory
there and set social to 100%. Now my social spendings are 67 and production
is 72, so I'm getting 5 free hammers:
I have 20% bonus from civilization, 10% bonus from the capital and I have
that +100% tile with a factory.
The base capacity is either 48 or 56 (depending to what 100% bonus is
applied). If it is 48, than the total production would be 48*1.3=62.4. If
it is 56, then it would be 56*1.3=72.8. That looks more like the right
answer. Perhaps, the tile bonus is applied to the base manufacturing
capacity (though I can't find it reflected anywhere in the game). Then 20%
bonus is applied and rounded (or floored) 56*0.2 = 11.2 -> 11. 10% bonus is
applied to 56 and floored 56*0.1 = 5.6 -> 5. Then the total spending is 56
+ 11 = 67 and the total production is 56 + 11 + 5 = 72.

Alex.

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mcv

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Since: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 488



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:55 am
Post subject: Re: GalCiv2: spending question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

alexti <QQalextiQQ DeleteThis @videotron.few.useless.chars.ca> wrote:
>
> I've started a new game with custom race that has no production or research
> bonuses. At the start I have 24mp and 24tp. I immediately set spending
> (Industrial Capacity:) to 100% and start to build something social and
> something military. I also set military to 0%, social to 50% and research
> to 50%. This gives me 24 bc of spending (+1 bc for maintenance). Production
> is 13 (I assume 12 + 10% capital bonus) and research is 12, so it looks
> that they're exactly at 50% of capacity.

You set social production and research at 50% each and you're surprised
they're each producing at 50% capacity?

> Interesting that if I don't set
> any social production, the social spendings are still charged (but I
> believe that is known issue).

It is. I don't like it either, because it encourages micromanagement
and building useless stuff. At least, it was in GalCiv1, but I understand
it hasn't changed in Galciv2.

> So it appears that there's a research spending rate which is {spending-
> industrial capacity}*{spending distribution-research rate} and social and
> military rates which are {spending-industrial capacity}*{spending
> distribution-social/military rate}. I'm not sure why industrial capacity
> spending affects research rate, but apparently it does.

Because it's partially a resource management game. You have to choose if
you prioritise research, social production or military production. You've
got limited capacity, a limited number of workers to work on those projects,
that sort of thing.


mcv.
--
"Serenity is a very personal work with political resonance and a
heartfelt message about the human condition and stuff blowing up.
'Cause let's face it, nobody cares about that 'human condition'
stuff... in fact if you notice it, try to keep it to yourself."
-- Joss Whedon on his new film

 >> Stay informed about: GalCiv2: spending question 
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alexti

External


Since: Jan 23, 2005
Posts: 114



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: GalCiv2: spending question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

mcv <mcvmcv.RemoveThis@xs4all.nl> wrote in
news:440d4959$0$11074$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl:

> alexti <QQalextiQQ.RemoveThis@videotron.few.useless.chars.ca> wrote:
>>
>> I've started a new game with custom race that has no production or
>> research bonuses. At the start I have 24mp and 24tp. I immediately set
>> spending (Industrial Capacity:) to 100% and start to build something
>> social and something military. I also set military to 0%, social to
>> 50% and research to 50%. This gives me 24 bc of spending (+1 bc for
>> maintenance). Production is 13 (I assume 12 + 10% capital bonus) and
>> research is 12, so it looks that they're exactly at 50% of capacity.
>
> You set social production and research at 50% each and you're surprised
> they're each producing at 50% capacity?
Strange thing is that you can't set them both to 100% (and 50%-50% split
doesn't give that effect). Industrial capacity and research capacity are
independent, you build factories for the former and labs for the latter, so
as long as you have enough money you should be able to use all capacity.
When you set military-social spending to 50%-50% it makes sense that you're
getting half of production in each category because they share industrial
capacity, but why the same applies to research?

>> Interesting that if I don't set
>> any social production, the social spendings are still charged (but I
>> believe that is known issue).
>
> It is. I don't like it either, because it encourages micromanagement
> and building useless stuff. At least, it was in GalCiv1, but I
> understand it hasn't changed in Galciv2.
You don't get charged for military production if you produce nothing, only
for social.

>> So it appears that there's a research spending rate which is
>> {spending- industrial capacity}*{spending distribution-research rate}
>> and social and military rates which are {spending-industrial
>> capacity}*{spending distribution-social/military rate}. I'm not sure
>> why industrial capacity spending affects research rate, but apparently
>> it does.
>
> Because it's partially a resource management game. You have to choose
> if you prioritise research, social production or military production.
> You've got limited capacity, a limited number of workers to work on
> those projects, that sort of thing.
You're already managing your resources by separately building up research
and industrial capacities and by finding enough money to use those
capacities. The way the sliders work just force you to build more research
capacity than you ever use. It just seems illogical - if you have enough
money (which very much equates to having enough people) why can't you use
100% of your capacities? "Spending" section in the manual apparently says
that you can (it is not very clear on the subject as it doesn't go into
much details).

Alex.
 >> Stay informed about: GalCiv2: spending question 
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mcv

External


Since: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 488



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: GalCiv2: spending question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

alexti <QQalextiQQ.RemoveThis@videotron.few.useless.chars.ca> wrote:
> mcv <mcvmcv.RemoveThis@xs4all.nl> wrote in
> news:440d4959$0$11074$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl:
>> alexti <QQalextiQQ.RemoveThis@videotron.few.useless.chars.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've started a new game with custom race that has no production or
>>> research bonuses. At the start I have 24mp and 24tp. I immediately set
>>> spending (Industrial Capacity:) to 100% and start to build something
>>> social and something military. I also set military to 0%, social to
>>> 50% and research to 50%. This gives me 24 bc of spending (+1 bc for
>>> maintenance). Production is 13 (I assume 12 + 10% capital bonus) and
>>> research is 12, so it looks that they're exactly at 50% of capacity.
>>
>> You set social production and research at 50% each and you're surprised
>> they're each producing at 50% capacity?

> Strange thing is that you can't set them both to 100% (and 50%-50% split
> doesn't give that effect). Industrial capacity and research capacity are
> independent, you build factories for the former and labs for the latter, so
> as long as you have enough money you should be able to use all capacity.

Clearly they're not independent, and the 100% represents the total working
population, including the scientists.

> When you set military-social spending to 50%-50% it makes sense that you're
> getting half of production in each category because they share industrial
> capacity, but why the same applies to research?

I don't think the game is intended to be a realistic simulation of a real
economy. It's a resource management game, and the resource you need to
manage here is total production capacity. If it helps, think about it as
the number of people doing the actual work. Each person can work on
building a new ship or researching a new drive, but not on both at the
same time.

>>> Interesting that if I don't set
>>> any social production, the social spendings are still charged (but I
>>> believe that is known issue).
>>
>> It is. I don't like it either, because it encourages micromanagement
>> and building useless stuff. At least, it was in GalCiv1, but I
>> understand it hasn't changed in Galciv2.

> You don't get charged for military production if you produce nothing, only
> for social.

I didn't know that. I'd rather see it the other way around, because
military production always has at least some use, but social production
just stops at some point.

>>> So it appears that there's a research spending rate which is
>>> {spending- industrial capacity}*{spending distribution-research rate}
>>> and social and military rates which are {spending-industrial
>>> capacity}*{spending distribution-social/military rate}. I'm not sure
>>> why industrial capacity spending affects research rate, but apparently
>>> it does.
>>
>> Because it's partially a resource management game. You have to choose
>> if you prioritise research, social production or military production.
>> You've got limited capacity, a limited number of workers to work on
>> those projects, that sort of thing.

> You're already managing your resources by separately building up research
> and industrial capacities and by finding enough money to use those
> capacities. The way the sliders work just force you to build more research
> capacity than you ever use. It just seems illogical - if you have enough
> money (which very much equates to having enough people) why can't you use
> 100% of your capacities? "Spending" section in the manual apparently says
> that you can (it is not very clear on the subject as it doesn't go into
> much details).

The 3-way slider originates from GalCiv1, where you didn't have individual
tiles. With those tiles, I agree the sliders may seem a bit redundant.


mcv.
--
"Serenity is a very personal work with political resonance and a
heartfelt message about the human condition and stuff blowing up.
'Cause let's face it, nobody cares about that 'human condition'
stuff... in fact if you notice it, try to keep it to yourself."
-- Joss Whedon on his new film
 >> Stay informed about: GalCiv2: spending question 
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alexti

External


Since: Jan 23, 2005
Posts: 114



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: GalCiv2: spending question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

mcv <mcvmcv DeleteThis @xs4all.nl> wrote in
news:440eb23c$0$11069$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl:

> alexti <QQalextiQQ DeleteThis @videotron.few.useless.chars.ca> wrote:
>> mcv <mcvmcv DeleteThis @xs4all.nl> wrote in
>> news:440d4959$0$11074$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl:
>>> alexti <QQalextiQQ DeleteThis @videotron.few.useless.chars.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've started a new game with custom race that has no production or
>>>> research bonuses. At the start I have 24mp and 24tp. I immediately
>>>> set spending (Industrial Capacity:) to 100% and start to build
>>>> something social and something military. I also set military to 0%,
>>>> social to 50% and research to 50%. This gives me 24 bc of spending
>>>> (+1 bc for maintenance). Production is 13 (I assume 12 + 10% capital
>>>> bonus) and research is 12, so it looks that they're exactly at 50%
>>>> of capacity.
>>>
>>> You set social production and research at 50% each and you're
>>> surprised they're each producing at 50% capacity?
>
>> Strange thing is that you can't set them both to 100% (and 50%-50%
>> split doesn't give that effect). Industrial capacity and research
>> capacity are independent, you build factories for the former and labs
>> for the latter, so as long as you have enough money you should be able
>> to use all capacity.
>
> Clearly they're not independent, and the 100% represents the total
> working population, including the scientists.
I have thought about it, but the population doesn't seem to affect the
capacity. I've tried to grow population, but it has no effect on the
amount of spending at 100%. I think that population is accounted only
through the taxes that give you the money to spend, but I haven't done very
extensive testing.

Alex.
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