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Future of Real Time Strategy Games.

 
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ripper234

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Since: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:55 pm
Post subject: Future of Real Time Strategy Games.
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>strategic (more info?)

My take on the future of RTS games.

http://qimmortal.blogspot.com/2007/12/future-of-real-time-strategy.html

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yaugin

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Since: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 33



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Future of Real Time Strategy Games. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 15, 3:55 pm, ripper234 <ron.gr... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> My take on the future of RTS games.

Let me show you how to use Usenet:

----

Future of Real Time Strategy

I think RTS games are currently wrong. What do I mean by that?

Current RTS games do test strategy and tactics, but they also require
a high degree of micro-management. Top Starcraft players are measured
by their APM, and a player with high thinking skills but a less than
agile hand is at a disadvantage. The anticipatd Starcraft 2 doesn't
seem to hold great promise to change this.

What I want is this: In addition to the point-and-click action we all
know (and love), I want RTS games to offer me strategy/tactics menus.
I want to be able to order the computer AI things like:


* "build the base, 10 drones, and the entire tech tree up to
Guardian
. Then build 10 of these and 25 Mutalisks and send them after
the nearest Terran opponent.
* "Organize all my troups into battle formations while leaving 10%
on defense and go search & destroy all opponents"

* "Build up to 3 overlords and scout for Vespene gas. Once found,
take a drone there to build a base. Once the base nears completions,
send other drones there to mine the gas".



Such commands should be easily programmable in the game as it ships.
Special player-made commands could be added before and during a game.
The player's major role should be to select and define strategies, not
to gather up individual drones to build structures or to micro-manage
an attack. Of course, as I said, the micromanagement can stay, but it
must not be how you spend the better part of a game.

Note that most of the "strategy commands" I want are probably already
present at some form inside the computer's native AI player. As a
player, I want to have access to this AI and parts of it. Once this is
developed enough, I can imagine different Starcraft tournaments where
players are only allowed to pre-program the strategy.

Now I wonder how long till these ideas become reality and how
difficult it would be to program a extension for the existing
Starcraft that accomplishes something like this.

----

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yaugin

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Since: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 33



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Future of Real Time Strategy Games. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 15, 6:01 pm, yaugin <yau... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 15, 3:55 pm, ripper234 <ron.gr... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> Top Starcraft players are measured
> by their APM, and a player with high thinking skills but a less than
> agile hand is at a disadvantage.

Most people believe they are above-average drivers, and the same sort
of thing seems to be true of thinking skills. The common line of
thought is "if only the game didn't require fast reaction times, I
would excel with my latent strategical genius". Good RTS players excel
at both strategy AND reflex. Now you might lose to a player who sets
the game to the fastest speed and performs a mindless rush, and you
would dominate that player in a turn-based game. But if you took the
top ladder players and played a slow game against them, you'd still
lose. Just because you lack reflexes doesn't mean other people lack
strategic thinking.

The rest of your post is what a bnet'er might call QQ. Those
improvements to the game would benefit fast players just as much, if
not moreso, than players such as yourself. You'd still be in the same
position of not clicking as fast as the next guy.
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John Doe

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Since: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 76



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:15 am
Post subject: Re: Future of Real Time Strategy Games. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

yaugin <yaugin.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Dec 15, 3:55 pm, ripper234 <ron.gr....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My take on the future of RTS games.
>
> Let me show you how to use Usenet:

heheh
unfortunately, you're probably talking to a spambot.

> Future of Real Time Strategy
>
> I think RTS games are currently wrong. What do I mean by that?

The interface. Strategy is different than action. For most, a better
name might be AS meaning Arcade Strategy, or whatever name besides
RTS.

In my opinion, the major property that separates computer strategy
gaming RTS from old-fashioned board strategy gaming is the fact that
the computer arbitrates who gets to a particular location first. And
consequently there's a click-fest to get there first.

> Current RTS games do test strategy and tactics, but they also
> require a high degree of micro-management. Top Starcraft players
> are measured by their APM, and a player with high thinking skills
> but a less than agile hand is at a disadvantage. The anticipatd
> Starcraft 2 doesn't seem to hold great promise to change this.
>
> What I want is this: In addition to the point-and-click action we
> all know (and love), I want RTS games to offer me strategy/tactics
> menus. I want to be able to order the computer AI

> Such commands should be easily programmable in the game as it
> ships. Special player-made commands could be added before and
> during a game. The player's major role should be to select and
> define strategies, not to gather up individual drones to build
> structures or to micro-manage an attack. Of course, as I said, the
> micromanagement can stay, but it must not be how you spend the
> better part of a game.
>
> Note that most of the "strategy commands" I want are probably
> already present at some form inside the computer's native AI
> player. As a player, I want to have access to this AI and parts of
> it. Once this is developed enough, I can imagine different
> Starcraft tournaments where players are only allowed to
> pre-program the strategy.
>
> Now I wonder how long till these ideas become reality and how
> difficult it would be to program a extension for the existing
> Starcraft that accomplishes something like this.

One enabler is a good/programmable interface. There is a big
difference between StarCraft's and Strategic Commander's interfaces.
With StarCraft, you can't get there from here because its interface
is designed for arcade strategy. I've tried. You can automate
Strategic Commander because it's interface is geared towards
strategy gaming.

NaturallySpeaking Professional (expensive just for gaming), a
suitable script recorder (like mine), and a lot of computer
experience/motivation unlocks the door to real computer strategy
gaming even against mouse slingers who do "great micro!" Then again,
most of the guys who do great micro are probably playing StarCraft
instead of Strategic Commander.

Good luck and have fun.
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John Doe

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Since: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 76



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:11 am
Post subject: Re: Future of Real Time Strategy Games. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

yaugin <yaugin.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Dec 15, 6:01 pm, yaugin <yau....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

....

> The rest of your post is what a bnet'er might call QQ. Those
> improvements to the game would benefit fast players just as much,
> if not moreso, than players such as yourself. You'd still be in
> the same position of not clicking as fast as the next guy.

The stuff you're referring to that you didn't quote was part of your
own post. I just noticed that what you wrote was a third-party
article you quoted as if it were your own writing. And now you're
replying to your own post, as if replying to a website author that
didn't post any opinions here. Disregard my other reply, your
quickness with the keyboard thwarts my ability to understand you.
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David Alex Lamb

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Since: Jun 19, 2007
Posts: 43



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:07 am
Post subject: Re: Future of Real Time Strategy Games. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

yaugin wrote:
> The rest of your post is what a bnet'er might call QQ. Those
> improvements to the game would benefit fast players just as much, if
> not moreso, than players such as yourself. You'd still be in the same
> position of not clicking as fast as the next guy.

I don't care much about playing against the next guy -- I'd usually lose
multiplayer anyway, except against morons -- I'd just like to be able to
have more fun with solo RTS games. When I next work up the gumption to
try Starcraft, I'll have to set the speed to as slow as possible to cope
with that big battle that blew me away back just before I quit.
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John Doe

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Since: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 76



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:50 am
Post subject: Re: Future of Real Time Strategy Games. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

David Alex Lamb <dalamb.DeleteThis@cs.queensu.ca> wrote:

> I don't care much about playing against the next guy -- I'd
> usually lose multiplayer anyway, except against morons -- I'd just
> like to be able to have more fun with solo RTS games.

Supreme Commander
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John Doe

External


Since: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 76



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:17 pm
Post subject: Re: John Doe is really loser Mark Bender [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jim Vieira" <WhiplashrAT wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:

> I hate to feed this kind of thing, honest.. but I've hated Mark
> Bender aka John Doe aka LShaping for the longest time and I can't
> help but get a real warm fuzzy whenever I see these Wink

Speaking of warm fuzzies... how's your mom Jim?
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