Foggy ILS

"Paul Slater" <paul.DeleteThis@slater.net> wrote in message
news:477591fb$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> When I fly an ILS approach with real weather there might just be a few
> clouds about and everything is nice and clear with a good view of the
> runway. Then, at about 200ft, wham!, thick fog. At least the damned thing
> is consistent. It's almost as if some programmer has decided that ILS
> approach = fog for landing. Has anyone else encountered this or am I just
> being persecuted? Better yet, does anyone know how to stop it? I've
> found that if I go to the weather menu and switch it back and forth it
> clears but this really messes up the experience. FS9 btw.

Yup. It's still the same in FSX. The clouds are there, but you can see
through and beyond them once you're inside.
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS 

> Then, at about 200ft, wham!, thick fog. Am I just being
> persecuted?
> Does anyone know how to stop it?

Paul, the weather with or without fog, is written in the situation you
choose
Create a clear sky (if you want) situation, save it as default, and your
problem will be solved (I believe)

--
Jean d'Oran
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS 

(I believe)
>
> --
> Jean d'Oran

ILs is specialy developed for fog...lol.

pieter
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS 

Hi Dallas,

no, this has happened everywhere I've been in the world (presently "resting"
at Hong Kong on my 2nd RTW). Your explanation does seem to be about right
though. It's a bit disappointing as I really want to use real weather, but
as another poster suggested, the only way to avoid this ermmm.. "phenomenon"
would be to use one of the preset weathers. Ah well, as you say it's
probably the best the sim can do.

Thanks, Paul

Hmmm... New Year resolution, look for the positive: if I have to create my
own weather, an 800 knot tailwind might ease my fuel problems across the
Pacific. Heh, heh, heh.........



"Dallas" <Cybnorm RemoveThis @spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:1p2xw7hvbrmbd$.vk9qopig9m2a$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:37:48 +1100, Paul Slater wrote:
>
>> Then, at about 200ft, wham!, thick fog.
>
> Are you talking about just one airport? Often the same airport at the
> same
> time each day will have similar conditions.
>
> The weather FS uses is gathered from the weather station on the field and
> is reported as visibility, then ceiling. If the station reports ceiling
> 3000 feet and FEW with a visibility of 1/2 mile then the best the sim can
> do is give you pretty good visibility until you get close to the ground
> then it will suddenly snap into 1/2 mile visibility.
>
> It might be interesting to check the METAR for the airport at the time
> you're experiencing this:
> http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/metar.shtml
>
> To decode:
> http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lzk/html/metar.htm
>
>
> --
> Dallas
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS 

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:37:48 +1100, "Paul Slater" <paul DeleteThis @slater.net>
wrote:

>When I fly an ILS approach with real weather there might just be a few
>clouds about and everything is nice and clear with a good view of the
>runway. Then, at about 200ft, wham!, thick fog. At least the damned thing is

That's a wonderful thing to experience IRL. You can see the ground all
the way down the ILS and then at the DH or a bit below, it's as if you
fell into a can of soup.

Roger (K8RI)
>consistent. It's almost as if some programmer has decided that ILS approach
>= fog for landing. Has anyone else encountered this or am I just being
>persecuted? Better yet, does anyone know how to stop it? I've found that
>if I go to the weather menu and switch it back and forth it clears but this
>really messes up the experience. FS9 btw.
>
>TIA, Paul
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:17:43 -0500, notspecified
<notspecified RemoveThis @spamfree.net> wrote:

>
>> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:37:48 +1100, "Paul Slater" <paul RemoveThis @slater.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >When I fly an ILS approach with real weather there might just be a few
>> >clouds about and everything is nice and clear with a good view of the
>> >runway. Then, at about 200ft, wham!, thick fog. At least the damned thing is
>> >consistent. It's almost as if some programmer has decided that ILS approach
>> >= fog for landing. Has anyone else encountered this or am I just being
>> >persecuted? Better yet, does anyone know how to stop it? I've found that
>> >if I go to the weather menu and switch it back and forth it clears but this
>> >really messes up the experience. FS9 btw.
>> >
>> >TIA, Paul
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>For some reason in MSFS you can see through low visibility/fog as if it isn't
>even there if you are looking down on it from above. Its magic! The visibility
>layer is always very thin and will go from unlimited in all directions to none
>in just one foot of altitude change. One second the airport is crystal clear,
>and the next it is covered with fog.
>
>You would think that if an airport is covered in fog you wouldn't see it when
>you were at 1,000' any better than you would see it at 100', but in MSFS the
>fog is magic.

Oh, but as I said in another post, phrased a bit differently, that is
very realistic. It's just that way IRL quite often where ground fog
is concerned.

Roger (K8RI)
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS 

"notspecified" <notspecified RemoveThis @spamfree.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.21e47257f9306d3d989738@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <3rsjn3d2ghj9n3m4m3dnpsl804ibj94tmo RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
> validaddress RemoveThis @my.com
> says...
>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:17:43 -0500, notspecified
>> <notspecified RemoveThis @spamfree.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:37:48 +1100, "Paul Slater" <paul RemoveThis @slater.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >When I fly an ILS approach with real weather there might just be a
>> >> >few
>> >> >clouds about and everything is nice and clear with a good view of the
>> >> >runway. Then, at about 200ft, wham!, thick fog. At least the damned
>> >> >thing is
>> >> >consistent. It's almost as if some programmer has decided that ILS
>> >> >approach
>> >> >= fog for landing. Has anyone else encountered this or am I just
>> >> >being
>> >> >persecuted? Better yet, does anyone know how to stop it? I've
>> >> >found that
>> >> >if I go to the weather menu and switch it back and forth it clears
>> >> >but this
>> >> >really messes up the experience. FS9 btw.
>> >> >
>> >> >TIA, Paul
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >For some reason in MSFS you can see through low visibility/fog as if it
>> >isn't
>> >even there if you are looking down on it from above. Its magic! The
>> >visibility
>> >layer is always very thin and will go from unlimited in all directions
>> >to none
>> >in just one foot of altitude change. One second the airport is crystal
>> >clear,
>> >and the next it is covered with fog.
>> >
>> >You would think that if an airport is covered in fog you wouldn't see it
>> >when
>> >you were at 1,000' any better than you would see it at 100', but in MSFS
>> >the
>> >fog is magic.
>>
>> Oh, but as I said in another post, phrased a bit differently, that is
>> very realistic. It's just that way IRL quite often where ground fog
>> is concerned.
>>
>> Roger (K8RI)
>>
>
> I still don't think that fog is see-through from above. If an airport is
> covered in fog it shouldn't appear crystal clear from above.

If the fog is 100 feet thick, you are looking straight down through 100 feet
of fog.
On final, looking ahead, you may be looking through thousands of feet of
fog.

Bob McKellar
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS 

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:53:32 -0500, notspecified
<notspecified.RemoveThis@spamfree.net> wrote:

>In article <3rsjn3d2ghj9n3m4m3dnpsl804ibj94tmo.RemoveThis@4ax.com>, validaddress.RemoveThis@my.com
>says...
>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:17:43 -0500, notspecified
>> <notspecified.RemoveThis@spamfree.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:37:48 +1100, "Paul Slater" <paul.RemoveThis@slater.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >When I fly an ILS approach with real weather there might just be a few
>> >> >clouds about and everything is nice and clear with a good view of the
>> >> >runway. Then, at about 200ft, wham!, thick fog. At least the damned thing is
>> >> >consistent. It's almost as if some programmer has decided that ILS approach
>> >> >= fog for landing. Has anyone else encountered this or am I just being
>> >> >persecuted? Better yet, does anyone know how to stop it? I've found that
>> >> >if I go to the weather menu and switch it back and forth it clears but this
>> >> >really messes up the experience. FS9 btw.
>> >> >
>> >> >TIA, Paul
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >For some reason in MSFS you can see through low visibility/fog as if it isn't
>> >even there if you are looking down on it from above. Its magic! The visibility
>> >layer is always very thin and will go from unlimited in all directions to none
>> >in just one foot of altitude change. One second the airport is crystal clear,
>> >and the next it is covered with fog.
>> >
>> >You would think that if an airport is covered in fog you wouldn't see it when
>> >you were at 1,000' any better than you would see it at 100', but in MSFS the
>> >fog is magic.
>>
>> Oh, but as I said in another post, phrased a bit differently, that is
>> very realistic. It's just that way IRL quite often where ground fog
>> is concerned.
>>
>> Roger (K8RI)
>>
>
>I still don't think that fog is see-through from above. If an airport is
>covered in fog it shouldn't appear crystal clear from above.


No, it's not "crystal clear", but there is only a slight haze that
gives the pilot the impression the visibility down there is as good as
it is up here. It's a very startling phenomena and can be more than a
little scary. Actually it's a very dangerous situation. You can still
see the ground under you but forward visibility drops to almost
nothing in a Bonanza. In a large aircraft it could easily be nothing.
OTOH sometimes it drops to nothing in the Bo as well. When you descend
into it, the transition is as abrupt as if someone threw a switch. You
are now suddenly on instruments with no forward visibility close to
the ground and descending. If you are in an aircraft that is not using
"autoland" you have to bring up the power, reconfigure, and go-around
all while close to the ground and not being able to see anything
outside the plane. It's not uncommon to feel the wheels bump the
runway while doing this. At least you hope it was the runway.

Think of it this way. Ground fog is called "ground fog" as it hugs
the ground and is rarely more than 100 feet thick. Often it's less no
more than 50 feet. Lets say it's 50 feet thick and 200 foot
visibility. Even at the speed a 172 lands, (say 70 mph) is about 120
feet per second (actually 119.77778) Landing at 120 MPH you would
cover that distance in well less than a second. In a jet at 140 knots
(161 MPH) it might as well be solid fog. Yet looking down through
that 50 feet with 200 visibility you can easily see the surface for
miles.

If the ground fog is dense enough to recognize as ground fog from the
air, even if you can see the surface down through it, forward
visibility will essentially be zero when in it and you are not going
to be able to land visually.
This phenomena exists well before it really looks like ground fog from
above.

Roger (K8RI)
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS 

Paul,
If you really like 'real weather', Active Sky 6.5 from HIFI Simulations,
does a great job and likely will change the situation you are experiencing.
http://www.hifisim.com/as6.php

Danny





"Paul Slater" <paul.TakeThisOut@slater.net> wrote in message
news:477591fb$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> When I fly an ILS approach with real weather there might just be a few
> clouds about and everything is nice and clear with a good view of the
> runway. Then, at about 200ft, wham!, thick fog. At least the damned thing
> is consistent. It's almost as if some programmer has decided that ILS
> approach = fog for landing. Has anyone else encountered this or am I just
> being persecuted? Better yet, does anyone know how to stop it? I've
> found that if I go to the weather menu and switch it back and forth it
> clears but this really messes up the experience. FS9 btw.
>
> TIA, Paul
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Foggy ILS