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Fast HERO

 
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Klaus_Æ._Mogensen

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Since: May 26, 2005
Posts: 15



(Msg. 16) Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Fast HERO [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>super-heroes (more info?)

I think the most significant way to speed up HERO is to ignore END.
Force characters to buy all their powers to 0 END (including STR) and
dispense with the END characteristic altogether. If players want a power
that can't be used all the time, they can buy Charges or a limitation:
"Costs STUN to Use".

Regarding damage, I don't find it hard to total lots of dice of HERO
damage: just group dice in bunches that add up to 10. We do that in our
group when we play HERO, and even 24-die haymakers become quick to add.
Counting BODY in the attack is just seeing how many 1s and 6s there are
and adjust the average accordingly.

However, if you want to roll fewer dice, you could roll 1d10 instead of
5d6. BODY = roll, STUN = roll+12. This gives the same average STUN (17½)
and slightly more BODY (5½ rather than 5). The STUN will be somewhat
less varied, but BODY will be far more varied, and you may not want that.

- Klaus

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Brandon Blackmoor

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Since: Jul 24, 2004
Posts: 41



(Msg. 17) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: Fast HERO [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I find this thread very peculiar. I like D&D, and have played it
regularly. D&D chargen is no less complex than Hero, and Hero is far
simpler in play. As the power level of the characters grows, the gap
between D&D and Hero playability grows, as well -- and not in D&D's favor.

bblackmoor
2004-12-03

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Bradd W. Szonye

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Since: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1278



(Msg. 18) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Fast HERO [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Brandon Blackmoor wrote:
> I find this thread very peculiar. I like D&D, and have played it
> regularly. D&D chargen is no less complex than Hero, and Hero is far
> simpler in play.

Simpler perhaps, but also much slower in my experience, largely because
of seemingly minor details (like rolling more dice, switching turns more
often, subtracting instead of adding, &c).

> As the power level of the characters grows, the gap between D&D and
> Hero playability grows, as well -- and not in D&D's favor.

For some characters, D&D is slow too, often because of decisionmaking
overload (especially for spellcasters).
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
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Abrigon Gusiq

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Since: Dec 19, 2004
Posts: 5



(Msg. 19) Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:56 am
Post subject: Re: Fast HERO [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Played Whitewolfs World of Darkness and related systems?

Mike


"Bradd W. Szonye" wrote:
>
> The regulars of rec.games.frp.dnd often express admiration for other
> game systems, especially HERO and Alternity. However, they also have
> reservations about actually playing other games, because the D20 System
> has some great playability features that the other games lack. Keith
> Davies expressed this sentiment succinctly:
>
> I find playing HERO a pain in the ass, [but] as a designer I greatly
> appreciate it. If I could get HERO design capabilities with D&D
> playability, then I'd have something special, I think.
>
> The HERO rulebook hints at a solution with its "9 Tips to Speed Up
> Combat." Unfortunately, the advice is very general, and most of the tips
> require further game design to implement fully.
>
> I ran a Champions campaign a long time ago, and I felt the same kind of
> pain that Keith expresses above. Since that time, I've played D20 System
> games extensively, and some of its recent innovations only widen the
> playability gap. I intend to write a series of articles aimed at
> narrowing that gap, mostly by fleshing out the HERO rulebook's tips.
>
> I also welcome any other tips HERO veterans have to offer, and I'd like
> their advice on my proposed mechanics. I'm not looking to D&Dify HERO,
> but rather to make HERO more competitive in speed and ease of play. I'd
> eventually like to run Champions again, but my current game group will
> likely rebel unless I can streamline the play mechanics significantly.
>
> I'll post each proposal in separate threads on rgfsh, with a [Fast HERO]
> subject tag. Interested rgfd readers should follow the discussion there.
> (I've also set followups to rgfsh for this thread, in case there's any
> further discussion.)
> --
> Bradd W. Szonye
> http://www.szonye.com/bradd
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incrdbil

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Since: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 13



(Msg. 20) Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:39 am
Post subject: Re: Fast HERO [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:22:18 GMT, "Bradd W. Szonye"
<bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote:
<snip>

with the certainty of a new campaign starting with the New Year, I'm
in full swing of campaign prep work. I've got about 2 experienced
players, and 3 newbies, and one semi-newbie.

So, here's my write up of some "Fast Hero" house rules--I think they
embrace my main speed worries, and utilize various aspects of the
discussion that has went on here. Feel free to copy, mutilate, deride,
alter for your own needs.

Fast Hero House Rules

Combat-to Hit rolls use the following formula.
Start with 11; add your complete OCV (Base levels, skills, situational
modifiers). Get Offensive Value
Roll 3d6. Subtract 3d6 total from Offensive Value: announce this
number as the DCV you have hit. GM will tell you rest.

Damage rolls.
Any normal attacks (counts full dice total as result, and body per
normal damage) may call 'average damage). You get 1 Body per dice, and
3.5 stun (round up). Players may use the same rules for entangles,
flashes and other special rolls. Full dice rolls may be done for
special situation attacks, pushed attacks, or killing attacks. Big
Hint: on your sheets, write down the average damage for your attacks
at normal strength. The question "what's the average damage from an X
dice attack" should come up once, and never again.

Knockback rolls.
Knockback (except for attacks with improved knockback advantage, or
when player announces he wants to roll for full knockback) shall be
done in the following way. For every full dice of knockback modifier,
simply count this as -3.5 inches (round up) subtracted from body of
attack. The GM may permit normal knockback dice rolls at player
request.

Combined Dice rolls.
When rolling attacks, players should combine dice rolls whenever
possible. For example, if the attack is a killing attack, the player
should roll the to hit dice damage dice, and stun multiplier at the
same time. Entangle attacks should be rolled with the to hit roll.
If knockback dice are being rolled, roll those dice as well.

Preparation Work:
Players should have all preparation work ready before their turn.
Power pools should already be written out, etc. If this isn't ready,
your action may be delayed until you are ready. Any paperwork after
the action can be done once your turn is done. (IOW, record your
endurance, charges, lost end, stun, body, etc after your action is
complete).

Mook Rules:
When fighting non important NPC's, the following rules will be used;
attacks that get Body through the targets defenses that do Body equal
to the targets original Body value kill the target instantly. Non
important NPC's do not get recoveries. NPC's already unconscious by-10
or greater will not have knockback damage rolled. The GM may even
invoke "quick KO" rules where NPC's that are stunned are simply
considered knocked out. (Swarms of agents/minions)

Combat Focus:
Pay attention during actual combat, and combat will go much quicker.
Limit discussions with others to a volume that doesn't interrupt the
GM when it isn't your turn. Pay attention to the phase and Dex order;
if you don't respond when your turn and Dex order is called, your
action is delayed.

Your Combat Card:
Your combat card (laminated) tracks your status during Battle: this
card will be updated prior to start of the session, filling in
essential combat statistics, stun, endurance, body, endurance
reserves. The card will have your phases, dexterity, and other
important quick reference information. The GM will give you your
combat card at the start of the session, you will return it at the
end. This saves wear and tear on character sheets. There is a note
section on the combat card: if a GM asks for your Combat card, makes a
notation, and returns it, refer to the note section, and follow
instructions accordingly. If the note says 'status quo', this means
your information was needed, but no change has happened (or at least
noticed) by your character. You may not tell other players that the
note said 'status quo', or share any information unless the note
specifies so. This helps the GM fight the metagame factor of
suspecting and attacking whoever gets a note from the GM. I might just
give you a status quo notation just to keep others from using the
combat card as some form of warning system. Please honor the spirit of
this rule. There are mentalist villains with mind control and
illusion in the campaign; do not take notice of a privileged
communication between the GM and player and let it affect your
characters actions. Abuse of this will result in the loss of
experience, or the GM getting grumpy.




incrdbil
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Bradd W. Szonye

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Since: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1278



(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:06 am
Post subject: Re: Fast HERO [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Abrigon Gusiq wrote:
> Played Whitewolfs World of Darkness and related systems?

Yes; why do you ask?
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
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John Rudd

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Since: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 14



(Msg. 22) Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Fast HERO [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> "Bradd W. Szonye" wrote:
> >
> > The regulars of rec.games.frp.dnd often express admiration for other
> > game systems, especially HERO and Alternity. However, they also have
> > reservations about actually playing other games, because the D20 System
> > has some great playability features that the other games lack. Keith
> > Davies expressed this sentiment succinctly:
> >
> > I find playing HERO a pain in the ass, [but] as a designer I greatly
> > appreciate it. If I could get HERO design capabilities with D&D
> > playability, then I'd have something special, I think.

For me, the in-game playability isn't the only problem. There's also
the "library" that's available to me. I have yet to come across the
sheer lists of standard creatures, spells, equipment, etc. that I can
easily pick for d20.

Maybe I just haven't come across a "net book of HERO spells" or
something, but I'm just not aware of such a library. Hero isn't just a
pain in the ass in terms of running the game, but in terms of building
the world in which to run the game. But it would be nice to have the
ability to take a few lists of things and pick and choose the general
things easily, and then only reach into the deeper things for tweaks.

Though, it would also be nice to have the actual running of the game be
more streamlined as well.


> > I'm not looking to D&Dify HERO,

Though, if you were, I have a friend who created something called
"Dungeon Hero" which was sort of a conversion of 1st Ed AD&D to Hero
Packages. I didn't like how he did some of it, but it was apparently
pretty popular for awhile. I think you can still find it somewhere off
of www.planetx.org
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No 33 Secretary

External


Since: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 274



(Msg. 23) Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:09 am
Post subject: Re: Fast HERO [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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John Rudd <jrudd.DeleteThis@ucsc.edu> wrote in news:41BDF87E.AB4CC940@ucsc.edu:

> Maybe I just haven't come across a "net book of HERO spells" or
> something, but I'm just not aware of such a library.

Er, http://www.herogames.com/Products/FHG.htm ?

--
Terry Austin
www.hyperbooks.com
Campaign Cartographer now available
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John Rudd

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Since: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 14



(Msg. 24) Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:09 am
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No 33 Secretary wrote:
>
> John Rudd <jrudd RemoveThis @ucsc.edu> wrote in news:41BDF87E.AB4CC940@ucsc.edu:
>
> > Maybe I just haven't come across a "net book of HERO spells" or
> > something, but I'm just not aware of such a library.
>
> Er, http://www.herogames.com/Products/FHG.htm ?
>

That covers spells, but what about the other things I mentioned?

(I actually don't run many fantasy games, and the games I have coming
up, which I'm planning to run under d20, are post-apocalyptic and
space/horror)
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John Rudd

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Since: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 14



(Msg. 25) Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:09 am
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No 33 Secretary wrote:
>
> John Rudd <jrudd RemoveThis @ucsc.edu> wrote in news:41BDF87E.AB4CC940@ucsc.edu:
>
> > Maybe I just haven't come across a "net book of HERO spells" or
> > something, but I'm just not aware of such a library.
>
> Er, http://www.herogames.com/Products/FHG.htm ?
>

Actually, looking over their site, I'm seeing a lot better coverage than
the last time I looked at Hero resources (which was, admittedly, a while
ago). Maybe it's not as bad as I remember it being, any more.
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Bradd W. Szonye

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Since: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1278



(Msg. 26) Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 am
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John Rudd wrote:
> For me, the in-game playability isn't the only problem. There's also
> the "library" that's available to me. I have yet to come across the
> sheer lists of standard creatures, spells, equipment, etc. that I can
> easily pick for d20.

4th-edition HERO was pretty spotty there: lots of supervillain books,
but otherwise very little pre-built stuff. The new edition is a lot
better about this: There's a generic monsters & animals book (HERO
Bestiary), a fantasy monster book (Monsters, Minions, & Marauders), a
superpowers book (UNTIL Superpowers Database), two fantasy spell books
(Fantasy Hero Grimoire I & II), a vehicles book (The Ultimate Vehicle),
a huge list of martial arts styles (The Ultimate Martial Artist), and of
course some supervillain books.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
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David Johnston

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Since: May 15, 2005
Posts: 852



(Msg. 27) Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:50 am
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On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:15:29 +0100,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Klaus_=C6=2E_Mogensen=22?=
<klaudiusNOSPAM RemoveThis @get2net.dk> wrote:

>I think the most significant way to speed up HERO is to ignore END.
>Force characters to buy all their powers to 0 END (including STR) and
>dispense with the END characteristic altogether. If players want a power
>that can't be used all the time, they can buy Charges or a limitation:
>"Costs STUN to Use".

Player character stun expenditure doesn't take a significant amount of
time unless the GM is foolish enough to try to keep track of it
himself. Obviously it is a bad idea in a mob scene for the GM to try
to keep track of all of his NPC's END expenditures. Most of them will
be unconscious by the time the subject of running out of END arises
anyway.
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No 33 Secretary

External


Since: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 274



(Msg. 28) Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:36 pm
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John Rudd <jrudd.DeleteThis@ucsc.edu> wrote in news:41BE40D7.A27205E1@ucsc.edu:

> No 33 Secretary wrote:
>>
>> John Rudd <jrudd.DeleteThis@ucsc.edu> wrote in news:41BDF87E.AB4CC940@ucsc.edu:
>>
>> > Maybe I just haven't come across a "net book of HERO spells" or
>> > something, but I'm just not aware of such a library.
>>
>> Er, http://www.herogames.com/Products/FHG.htm ?
>>
>
> That covers spells, but what about the other things I mentioned?
>
> (I actually don't run many fantasy games, and the games I have coming
> up, which I'm planning to run under d20, are post-apocalyptic and
> space/horror)
>
Look through Hero's catalog on their web site. There's a beastiary, and a
fantasy beastiary, and various other supplements. They're not nearly as
extensive as for D&D, of course, but there's at least some material, and
they are steadily cranking out more.

--
Terry Austin
www.hyperbooks.com
Campaign Cartographer now available
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Detryxtyr

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Since: May 17, 2004
Posts: 37



(Msg. 29) Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:53 pm
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There's also a second UNTIL Superpowers Database coming early next year, and
Asian bestiary in the works, and more books in the Ultimates series. What I
like about the Ultimates series is the fact that they cover the idea in
multiple genres. The Ultimate Brick actually had characters in it for the
fantasy and scifi genres. The Ultimate Mystic has supposedly shipped this
week. I'm planning on spending Xmas money on it.

Captain Geek
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