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Nordo

External


Since: May 25, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:27 am
Post subject: [FB] Tourney Armies
Archived from groups: rec>games>miniatures>warhammer (more info?)

I have a great deal of experience with the awesome power/painful lameness of
tournament level play in other games, but I know very little about the
latest version of WH:FB Are there any lists to be feared and expected? Any
guys at your local FNWH that always rule the table with a finely tuned
collection no one can beat?

Best army I ever saw was a Vampires list from an older edition (made by a
hard-core player and buddy of mine). It had a lubed up general on a
manticore, with probably the highest stats a model could have, and an
enourmous unit of skeletons with 3+ armor (plus that damned coach and some
bats). None of us could ever figure out how to beat him and when he took it
to a local 12 man tourney he placed first with double the points of the 2nd
place guy.

-Nordo

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Erik Setzer

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Since: Jan 12, 2005
Posts: 51



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: [FB] Tourney Armies [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Thu, 25 May 2006 05:27:17 GMT, "Nordo" <dmaurice.RemoveThis@frontiernet.net>
wrote:

>I have a great deal of experience with the awesome power/painful lameness of
>tournament level play in other games, but I know very little about the
>latest version of WH:FB Are there any lists to be feared and expected? Any
>guys at your local FNWH that always rule the table with a finely tuned
>collection no one can beat?
>
>Best army I ever saw was a Vampires list from an older edition (made by a
>hard-core player and buddy of mine). It had a lubed up general on a
>manticore, with probably the highest stats a model could have, and an
>enourmous unit of skeletons with 3+ armor (plus that damned coach and some
>bats). None of us could ever figure out how to beat him and when he took it
>to a local 12 man tourney he placed first with double the points of the 2nd
>place guy.

All-Chariots

Speedy Orc and Goblin force (hordes of chariots, wolf riders, and boar
boyz with a Giant for some fun support)... especially ugly with
Shamans, moreso if they get Hand of Gork and/or Waagh (I got three
HoG's and a Waagh! in my last game, and one shaman with HoG had the
Double Doin' Doo-Dahs).

Beastmen done proper, with their ambushing, skirmishing ranked units,
and Chariots
-Erik
--

Actual quote from a Tau player: "Fusion blaster up your ass. Rolling for penetration..."

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Andy O'Neill

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Since: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 108



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: [FB] Tourney Armies [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Erik Setzer" <erks.TakeThisOut@spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jjrb72ho2d2pnrvnao7ihh31bbr4ssjdaf@4ax.com...
<<>>
> All-Chariots
>
> Speedy Orc and Goblin force (hordes of chariots, wolf riders, and boar
> boyz with a Giant for some fun support)... especially ugly with
> Shamans, moreso if they get Hand of Gork and/or Waagh (I got three
> HoG's and a Waagh! in my last game, and one shaman with HoG had the
> Double Doin' Doo-Dahs).

Ummm...
Dunno about that.
Wouldn't really rate the OnG as a top drawer army.

The lizzies nike saurus with extra move magic item is more dangerous than
the waagh move because you can't dispel it.

>
> Beastmen done proper, with their ambushing, skirmishing ranked units,
> and Chariots
> -Erik

Chariots are pretty tough.
Look up super herd on that forum I posted the URL.
It's a skirmished unit that gets ranks in combat and a 360 degree charge the
turn after it wins a combat.

--
Regards,
Andy O'Neill
www.wargamer.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm
or, for no javascript and a faster load...
www.wargamer.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sitemap.htm
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rklemic

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Since: May 26, 2005
Posts: 100



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:22 pm
Post subject: Re: [FB] Tourney Armies [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Fri, 26 May 2006 09:48:28 GMT, "Andy O'Neill"
<aon14nocannedmeat.TakeThisOut@lycos.co.uk> wrote:

>"Erik Setzer" <erks.TakeThisOut@spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:jjrb72ho2d2pnrvnao7ihh31bbr4ssjdaf@4ax.com...
><<>>
>> All-Chariots
>>
>> Speedy Orc and Goblin force (hordes of chariots, wolf riders, and boar
>> boyz with a Giant for some fun support)... especially ugly with
>> Shamans, moreso if they get Hand of Gork and/or Waagh (I got three
>> HoG's and a Waagh! in my last game, and one shaman with HoG had the
>> Double Doin' Doo-Dahs).
>
>Ummm...
>Dunno about that.
>Wouldn't really rate the OnG as a top drawer army.
>
>The lizzies nike saurus with extra move magic item is more dangerous than
>the waagh move because you can't dispel it.
>
>>
>> Beastmen done proper, with their ambushing, skirmishing ranked units,
>> and Chariots
>> -Erik
>
>Chariots are pretty tough.
>Look up super herd on that forum I posted the URL.
>It's a skirmished unit that gets ranks in combat and a 360 degree charge the
>turn after it wins a combat.
God. I'm a fantasy rookie and there was an Indy GT in San Franciso
back at the beginning of March with the army lists due in on feb 15,
2 days before a con's FB tournament where I was going to test the list
with a minor change due to one tournament disallowing one model (the
con tournament) and the GT allowing said model. So if I had tried to
adjust my gt list for mistakes i had learned about in the con
tournamnet I would have taken a composition hit. Turns out it
wouldn't ahve mattered. Out of a composition score of 15 (0-3 points
per judge with 5 judges looking at hte list) I got a 1.

The composition rules weren't clear. Here's a gist.

3 points= Fluffy = This army list would be hard for a veteran player
to win with but the army would be fun to play.
2 points= Normal= This army is unremarkable, it doesn't try to
exploit army weaknesses and strengths.
1 point= Hard = This army tries to maximise strengths while minimizing
weaknesses.
0 points= Over the Top= This army would not be fun to play against.
A broken army.

This was a 2250 tournament.

Here's the gist of what I had and I will be puttign a * in front of
any unit that after the tournament a few of the other empire players
told me that these units were strikes against me in the UNCLEAR comp
rules.

Characters:
Elector Count: Mounted with 1+ rerollable normal save and the Shroud
of magnus for the 5+ ward and immunity to some magic. A defensive
tank.
** Captain: Basic mounted gear with Van Horstman's Speculum.

Core
28 Swordsmen. Full Command, Griffon Banner and a 10 man free company
detachment
20 Halberdiers with Shield, Full Command (The shields paid for
because of WYSIWIG, I bought teh halberdiers from a guy at a con flea
market)
* 2 units of 10 handgunners with marksman with repeater handgun.
** 6 Man generic Knights of Inner Circle
** 8 Man White Wolf Knight Inner Circle

Special

6 Man Pistoliers with a Marksman with repeater pistol
* 2 Cannons

Rare

** Helblaster
***** Steam Tank with Helblaster and Steam Gun. (this is the model
that was disallowed at the con but allowed at the GT) It was the
first time I had ever tried to use the thing. The model looked cool
so I wanted to try it.

Apparently the judges found my army so broken that this is what I
faced first round.

Tzeentch Chaos.

Characters.

Level 4 Chaos Sorceror on Dragon with the items that give the 3+ ward
for mount and character against shooting AND the Golden Eye of
Tzeentch

4 Flying Tzeentch Chariots
2 Dragon Ogres
5 Chosen Knights of Tzeentch.

The treatment I got at the tournament because of stuff like that
almost turned me away from fantasy that quickly. I've moved away from
california for grad school so when my fantasy minis get out here later
in the summer then maybe I'll try to get some games in out here in the
Chicago area. But I will NEVER play a tournament again wehre the
"composition" rules aren't absolutely clear.

Robert Klemic
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Erik Setzer

External


Since: Jan 12, 2005
Posts: 51



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 8:32 am
Post subject: Re: [FB] Tourney Armies [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Fri, 26 May 2006 09:48:28 GMT, "Andy O'Neill"
<aon14nocannedmeat DeleteThis @lycos.co.uk> wrote:

>"Erik Setzer" <erks DeleteThis @spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:jjrb72ho2d2pnrvnao7ihh31bbr4ssjdaf@4ax.com...
><<>>
>> All-Chariots
>>
>> Speedy Orc and Goblin force (hordes of chariots, wolf riders, and boar
>> boyz with a Giant for some fun support)... especially ugly with
>> Shamans, moreso if they get Hand of Gork and/or Waagh (I got three
>> HoG's and a Waagh! in my last game, and one shaman with HoG had the
>> Double Doin' Doo-Dahs).
>
>Ummm...
>Dunno about that.
>Wouldn't really rate the OnG as a top drawer army.

Well... if you're talking unbeatable, probably not. But it is pretty
nasty.

>The lizzies nike saurus with extra move magic item is more dangerous than
>the waagh move because you can't dispel it.

Sonic the Saurus! Argh! That guy should be banned.

>> Beastmen done proper, with their ambushing, skirmishing ranked units,
>> and Chariots
>> -Erik
>
>Chariots are pretty tough.
>Look up super herd on that forum I posted the URL.
>It's a skirmished unit that gets ranks in combat and a 360 degree charge the
>turn after it wins a combat.

Yuck. I'm still not a fan of Beastmen because of that kind of
nastiness.
-Erik
--

Actual quote from a Tau player: "Fusion blaster up your ass. Rolling for penetration..."
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Andy O'Neill

External


Since: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 108



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:58 pm
Post subject: Re: [FB] Tourney Armies [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<<>>
> This was a 2250 tournament.
>
> Here's the gist of what I had and I will be puttign a * in front of
> any unit that after the tournament a few of the other empire players
> told me that these units were strikes against me in the UNCLEAR comp
> rules.
>
> Characters:
> Elector Count: Mounted with 1+ rerollable normal save and the Shroud
> of magnus for the 5+ ward and immunity to some magic. A defensive
> tank.
> ** Captain: Basic mounted gear with Van Horstman's Speculum.
>
> Core
> 28 Swordsmen. Full Command, Griffon Banner and a 10 man free company
> detachment
> 20 Halberdiers with Shield, Full Command (The shields paid for
> because of WYSIWIG, I bought teh halberdiers from a guy at a con flea
> market)
> * 2 units of 10 handgunners with marksman with repeater handgun.
> ** 6 Man generic Knights of Inner Circle
> ** 8 Man White Wolf Knight Inner Circle

Umm....
Both inner circle knights and no other knights.

>
> Special
>
> 6 Man Pistoliers with a Marksman with repeater pistol
> * 2 Cannons
>
> Rare
>
> ** Helblaster
> ***** Steam Tank with Helblaster and Steam Gun. (this is the model
> that was disallowed at the con but allowed at the GT) It was the
> first time I had ever tried to use the thing. The model looked cool
> so I wanted to try it.

You went to a tournament with a list you never practiced with at all???


> Apparently the judges found my army so broken that this is what I
> faced first round.
>
> Tzeentch Chaos.
>
> Characters.
>
> Level 4 Chaos Sorceror on Dragon with the items that give the 3+ ward
> for mount and character against shooting AND the Golden Eye of
> Tzeentch

Golden eyed dragon, yes that's at least as broke as the stank.

>
> 4 Flying Tzeentch Chariots
> 2 Dragon Ogres
> 5 Chosen Knights of Tzeentch.

Well... your cannon certainly had something to shoot at.

>
> The treatment I got at the tournament because of stuff like that
> almost turned me away from fantasy that quickly. I've moved away from
> california for grad school so when my fantasy minis get out here later
> in the summer then maybe I'll try to get some games in out here in the
> Chicago area. But I will NEVER play a tournament again wehre the
> "composition" rules aren't absolutely clear.
>
> Robert Klemic

IMO there are no games workshop games that are suited to tournaments.
The rules have too many holes and the various army lists aren't sufficiently
balanced.
Which is of course why you need comp scores so players impose their own
extra set of rules on what you can or cannot pick.

The steam tank is widely considered broken.

The hellblaster is very good.
I reckon one in an army is OK but 2 is over the top.
4 cannon, a steam tank and 2 hellblasters is ridiculous.

--
Regards,
Andy O'Neill
www.wargamer.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm
or, for no javascript and a faster load...
www.wargamer.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sitemap.htm
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rklemic

External


Since: May 26, 2005
Posts: 100



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 9:13 pm
Post subject: Re: [FB] Tourney Armies [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:58:06 GMT, "Andy O'Neill"
<aon14nocannedmeat RemoveThis @lycos.co.uk> wrote:

>
><<>>
>> This was a 2250 tournament.
>>
>> Here's the gist of what I had and I will be puttign a * in front of
>> any unit that after the tournament a few of the other empire players
>> told me that these units were strikes against me in the UNCLEAR comp
>> rules.
>>
>> Characters:
>> Elector Count: Mounted with 1+ rerollable normal save and the Shroud
>> of magnus for the 5+ ward and immunity to some magic. A defensive
>> tank.
>> ** Captain: Basic mounted gear with Van Horstman's Speculum.
>>
>> Core
>> 28 Swordsmen. Full Command, Griffon Banner and a 10 man free company
>> detachment
>> 20 Halberdiers with Shield, Full Command (The shields paid for
>> because of WYSIWIG, I bought teh halberdiers from a guy at a con flea
>> market)
>> * 2 units of 10 handgunners with marksman with repeater handgun.
>> ** 6 Man generic Knights of Inner Circle
>> ** 8 Man White Wolf Knight Inner Circle
>
>Umm....
>Both inner circle knights and no other knights.
>
>>
>> Special
>>
>> 6 Man Pistoliers with a Marksman with repeater pistol
>> * 2 Cannons
>>
>> Rare
>>
>> ** Helblaster
>> ***** Steam Tank with Helblaster and Steam Gun. (this is the model
>> that was disallowed at the con but allowed at the GT) It was the
>> first time I had ever tried to use the thing. The model looked cool
>> so I wanted to try it.
>
>You went to a tournament with a list you never practiced with at all???
>
>
>> Apparently the judges found my army so broken that this is what I
>> faced first round.
>>
>> Tzeentch Chaos.
>>
>> Characters.
>>
>> Level 4 Chaos Sorceror on Dragon with the items that give the 3+ ward
>> for mount and character against shooting AND the Golden Eye of
>> Tzeentch
>
>Golden eyed dragon, yes that's at least as broke as the stank.
>
>>
>> 4 Flying Tzeentch Chariots
>> 2 Dragon Ogres
>> 5 Chosen Knights of Tzeentch.
>
>Well... your cannon certainly had something to shoot at.
>
>>
>> The treatment I got at the tournament because of stuff like that
>> almost turned me away from fantasy that quickly. I've moved away from
>> california for grad school so when my fantasy minis get out here later
>> in the summer then maybe I'll try to get some games in out here in the
>> Chicago area. But I will NEVER play a tournament again wehre the
>> "composition" rules aren't absolutely clear.
>>
>> Robert Klemic
>
>IMO there are no games workshop games that are suited to tournaments.
>The rules have too many holes and the various army lists aren't sufficiently
>balanced.
>Which is of course why you need comp scores so players impose their own
>extra set of rules on what you can or cannot pick.
>
>The steam tank is widely considered broken.
>
>The hellblaster is very good.
>I reckon one in an army is OK but 2 is over the top.
>4 cannon, a steam tank and 2 hellblasters is ridiculous.
Nobody else in the gaming club at the time was willing to play fantasy
at the time. It was all either 40k or Warmachine, with the latter
more likely.

Robert Klemic
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