[Exalted] Poaching?

Stephenls <stephenls.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote:
>Patrick Baldwin wrote:

>> little != nothing

>> Clearly, Luna requires *something* from her Chosen, or
>> why bother to have them?

>The will to survive. Luna asks of her children the will to survive.
>That's about it.

Man, I wish my job description was so short.

>> So why keep the process going? If all you want the Exalts
>> to do is not mess with the LAN party, why keep Exalting
>> people? Why not just tuck those Exalted Essences away
>> for a rainy day?

>> Or are the gods so caught up in the Games of Divinity
>> they can't or won't spend the time to turn off their
>> Eaxalted autoresponder?

>You've missed an important element of the setting.

Apparently, yes.

>The gods /can't/ stop people from Exalting. When they created their
>Chosen, they summoned up what they now can't put down. Even the
>Unconquered Sun, when he turned his face from the world some time before
>the Usurpation, didn't turn off Solar Exaltation -- it kept going
>without him.

Right- but I thought that meant it was on automatic,
not that it was unstoppable.

>Lytek, the god of exaltation, can guide the process somewhat, but it'd
>even continue if he were slain... just in a slightly more chaotic fashion.

>(This makes a lot of sense -- the Incarna would be much deader at the
>moment if the Primordials had been able to get rid of the Exalts by
>merely killing their patron gods. Likewise, if Lytek is necessary for
>Exaltation, then the Primordials would have just killed him and been
>done with it.)

So what *is* required then? Just that the Solar Essences
be around and free?

>Presumably Luna keeps tabs on her Chosen because she wants to, but if
>she stopped, they'd keep getting made.

>There are hints that much of First Age politics was keeping the Exalted
>distracted so they wouldn't turn their jealous eyes to Heaven. Geoff
>once said that the Usurpation was motivated primarily by the
>realization, on the part of the Sidereals and Dragon-Blooded, that the
>Solars were beginning to ask questions like "What do we need of gods and
>mortals and any worlds beyond those which we create?" and realizing the
>answers were "We don't."

The more setting info I read, the more it seems to me the
Usurpation was an unfortunate necessity. I wonder what
the new set of Solars might do if they came to that conclusion
as well...

>> Indeed. But was it because they were too distracted by the
>> Games, were allowing the various Chosen to exercise their
>> free will, or was it important things shook out the way
>> the did for some ineffable godly reason?

>A little from column A, a little from column B. And a little from column
>C: They were relieved, because with the Solars gone, the chance of a
>group of Exalts successfully storming Heaven, putting every god to the
>sword, and stealing the Games of Divinity for themselves was
>significantly lessened.

Can Exalts actually play the games?

<SNIP>

>The original question, "Can a shaman or priest be Exalted, or does that
>violate the metaphysics of the setting?" is backwards, BTW. The question
>is "Would it be fun to play a shaman or priest of a lesser god who's now
>been Exalted by a greater one?"

>The answer is "Yes," so of course the setting is built so metaphysics
>and celestial politics make it possible.

I really, really love Exalted.

~P.

Patrick Baldwin wrote:
> Richard Clayton <rZIGeclaZIGyton.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote:
> Patrick Baldwin wrote:
>
>>>usiel@vampirethemasquerade.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>Patrick Baldwin wrote:
>>>>
>
> <SNIP>
>
>>>>A Lunar doesn't really have a "duty" to Luna. Luna just sets the
>>>>preferences for Exaltation with the Lunar spark.
>>>
>>> Really? Does Luna think that?
>
>> The corebook explicitly states that Luna asks little of her Chosen, and
>>offers less.
>
>
> little != nothing
>
> Clearly, Luna requires *something* from her Chosen, or
> why bother to have them?

The Exalted were created to overthrow the Primordials. That was
accomplished about 5,000 years before the "present" setting. As
severance pay, the Chosen were awarded custody of Creation-- which is
actually the job the gods wanted to quit, so they could go play the
Games of Divinity.
Everything that has happened since has basically been up to the Exalted.

>>>What about the Unconquered
>>> Sun? If during the Primordial war a Solar had decided
>>> "you know what, screw this, I'm going on vacation", would
>>> the Unconquered Sun be OK with that? I mean sure, the
>>> Solars went all crazy at the end, but it seems like there's
>>> a good chance he was too absorbed in the Games of Divinity
>>> to really notice by that point.
>
>> During the Primordial War this would certainly have been a problem. But
>>as I said in another post, the purpose for which the Exalted were
>>created has been fulfilled. The war is over, Heaven has been invaded,
>>the Primordials overthrown; now the gods are enjoying the spoils and
>>just want those crazy-powerful and dangerously insane Exalted to stay
>>out of Yu-Shan (and the Jade Pleasure Dome especially).
>
> So why keep the process going? If all you want the Exalts
> to do is not mess with the LAN party, why keep Exalting
> people? Why not just tuck those Exalted Essences away
> for a rainy day?

Nothing in the printed material suggests that any of the gods can "turn
off" the process of Exaltation. And even if some of them wanted to stuff
the genie back in the bottle, the Chosen themselves probably would not
allow it. Your average Celestial Exalt is more than a match for a
typical god; a handful of them could curbstomp the Incarnae.

> Or are the gods so caught up in the Games of Divinity
> they can't or won't spend the time to turn off their
> Eaxalted autoresponder?

Also a possibility. The gods are a bunch of hopeless smack addicts,
after all; Creation is falling apart because they can't be bothered to
unplug for a while and fix it.

>>> Do the Celestials really expect *nothing* from those
>>> they Choose?
>
>> At the end of the First Age, the Sidereals conspired to murder the
>>Solars, the Solars were slain to the last man, the Dragon-Blooded
>>participated in the slaughter, and the Lunars mostly stood aside while
>>it happened and fled afterward. None of the Incarnae involved seemed to
>>care much.
>
> Indeed. But was it because they were too distracted by the
> Games, were allowing the various Chosen to exercise their
> free will, or was it important things shook out the way
> the did for some ineffable godly reason?

I suspect they just didn't care, as long as nobody gets in the way of
shooting up. For that matter, a lot of gods probably breathed a sigh of
relief; the Solars at the end of the First Age were wily, hedonistic,
unpredictable, and dangerous.

>>>>A powerful god might try to keep the same old arrangement (or something
>>>>like it) around, but it's a dangerous game for it.
>>>
>>> Why? I mean, if the Exalt is happy with something like the
>>> old arrangment, that seems like it wouldn't be a problem.
>
>> A Lunar Exalt might initially be content to maintain the system of
>>bargaining and chiminage, but once she realizes her power is beginning
>>to rival her patron deities, she might want to renegotiate her contract.
>>Though, of course, if she is content with servitude, she could certainly
>>continue to do so. Trying to force a Lunar into servitude would be
>>dangerous, however-- don't forget that the Exalted are among the few
>>entities in Creation that can kill gods *permanently.*
>
> Certainly- although that is yet another argument for keeping
> up some sort of relationship, if possible. Having an ally/servant
> that can actually directly kill your rivals sure sounds handy.

Sure. But if that ally or servant can also kill *you*, then enforcing
servitude is probably contraindicated.

> The carrot is really the only reasonable way to deal with
> your newly Exalted shaman though. If you try the stick,
> one day it just won't be big enough anymore.

True. But eventually the carrot won't be big enough, either; how many
regional gods can offer a Lunar or Solar follower a kingdom of her own?
Because a PC-level Lunar or Solar can easily *take* a kingdom for her
own. Why work for peanuts when you own a peanut plantation?
--
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Richard Clayton
"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero