Dirty Spellcaster Tricks

In article <zQQJg.255$pe2.70@newsfe05.lga>, ranma27 DeleteThis @charter.net wrote:
>Ubiquitous wrote:
>> groves_ca DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk wrote:

>>>A friend of mine came up with this trick: Use Contingency and Lightning
>>>Bolt. Set the Lightning Bolt to fire straight up when someone enters
>>>the target square. Cast this combo in a 10' high corridor. When the
>>>lightning bolt triggers, it goes straight up, causing 10d6 damage (since
>>>you need to be 14th level to cast Contingency, but LB caps at 10d6).
>>>When it hits the stone ceiling, it bounces back down with 110' of length
>>>left, causing another 10d6. When it hits the stone floor, it bounces
>>>back up with 100' of length left, causing another 10d6 damage...see
>>>where this is going?
>>>
>>>Aw, heck, I'll spell it out: 120d6 damage to one target.
>>
>> Read the PH. It doesn't work that way.
>
>I do not know what version you are playing as I do not know the
>Contingency spell. Please forgive me if the Lightning Bolt spell has
>been redefined. I can however assure you, at least under 1st ed and 2nd
>ed, Lightning Bolt does bounce. I remember in the old SSI games, blue
>dragons loved to get you where they could bounce the bolts off walls.
>One breath and it might take out a party even if everyone saved. I also
>used it to kill many a creature by getting in multiple attacks with one
>spell.

I seem to recall it was rather vague in 1st edition, but in 2nd edition
it was changed so that if the bolt cannot extend(?) to its full length,
you are sppsd to extend it from the starting point (towards the caster?)
until the full length is reached.

--
It is simply breathtaking to watch the glee and abandon with which
the liberal media and the Angry Left have been attempting to turn
our military victory in Iraq into a second Vietnam quagmire. Too bad
for them, it's failing.
 >> Stay informed about: Dirty Spellcaster Tricks 

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:39:15 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm.DeleteThis@polaris.net>
wrote:

>In article <zQQJg.255$pe2.70@newsfe05.lga>, ranma27.DeleteThis@charter.net wrote:
>>Ubiquitous wrote:
>>> groves_ca.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
>>>>A friend of mine came up with this trick: Use Contingency and Lightning
>>>>Bolt. Set the Lightning Bolt to fire straight up when someone enters
>>>>the target square. Cast this combo in a 10' high corridor. When the
>>>>lightning bolt triggers, it goes straight up, causing 10d6 damage (since
>>>>you need to be 14th level to cast Contingency, but LB caps at 10d6).
>>>>When it hits the stone ceiling, it bounces back down with 110' of length
>>>>left, causing another 10d6. When it hits the stone floor, it bounces
>>>>back up with 100' of length left, causing another 10d6 damage...see
>>>>where this is going?
>>>>
>>>>Aw, heck, I'll spell it out: 120d6 damage to one target.
>>>
>>> Read the PH. It doesn't work that way.
>>
>>I do not know what version you are playing as I do not know the
>>Contingency spell. Please forgive me if the Lightning Bolt spell has
>>been redefined. I can however assure you, at least under 1st ed and 2nd
>>ed, Lightning Bolt does bounce. I remember in the old SSI games, blue
>>dragons loved to get you where they could bounce the bolts off walls.
>>One breath and it might take out a party even if everyone saved. I also
>>used it to kill many a creature by getting in multiple attacks with one
>>spell.
>
>I seem to recall it was rather vague in 1st edition, but in 2nd edition
>it was changed so that if the bolt cannot extend(?) to its full length,
>you are sppsd to extend it from the starting point (towards the caster?)
>until the full length is reached.
>


Yeah, this was a very old message - I just happened across it and
noticed no one had corrected an error.

You were correct that a LIGHTNING BOLT bounced in 1e/2e, but incorrect
in applying the damage more than once. You could not take more from a
spell by crossing it several times than you could be staying in it
continuously. Instead, the official ruling was that you had to make
an additional SAVING THROW for each time you crossed the spell. So in
your example the person would take 10d6, or half that if he made 12
saves. Fail any one of the 12 saves and he caught the bolt full-on at
least once for the full 10d6 damage. I don't recall offhand if this
was a separate article in Dragon, or a column like Sage Advice, or
just what - but it made it clear that it was the official rule.

The typical use for this was for destroying nasty evil magical things
that only failed a saving throw on a 1. Give a Magic User and put him
between 2 solid rock walls 5 feet apart. Someone else throws a
targeted DISPEL MAGIC on the thing to be destroyed and the MU casts
the LIGHTNING BOLT-BOLT-BOLT-BOLT-etc. Unless it was an Artifact, it
was very likely to fail a save. The Mage had to eat the 10d6 too, of
course. Bonuses on saves weren't much help. The only common
effective thing was if you had a Druid who could cast a PROTECTION
FROM LIGHTNING on him (cutting the damage 50%), or it was a Druid/Mage
multiclass casting the PFL on himself (for total immunity) prior to
the LIGHTNING BOLT.

As I recall, in 1e you could get "angle of incidence equals angle of
reflection" bounces and do zigzags down a corridor while in 2e it
always bounced back towards the caster even if it hit a wall at an
angle. But the "bouncing between two parallel walls" trick worked the
same in both editions.

Of course, in 3e they got rid of the bounces (dang it <g>).
 >> Stay informed about: Dirty Spellcaster Tricks 

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 09:49:56 GMT, quester RemoveThis @infionline.net (Harold
Groot) wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:39:15 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm RemoveThis @polaris.net>
>>In article <zQQJg.255$pe2.70@newsfe05.lga>, ranma27 RemoveThis @charter.net wrote:
>>>Ubiquitous wrote:
>>>> groves_ca RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>>>>A friend of mine came up with this trick: Use Contingency and Lightning
>>>>>Bolt. Set the Lightning Bolt to fire straight up when someone enters
>>>>>the target square. Cast this combo in a 10' high corridor. When the
>>>>>lightning bolt triggers, it goes straight up, causing 10d6 damage (since
>>>>>you need to be 14th level to cast Contingency, but LB caps at 10d6).
>>>>>When it hits the stone ceiling, it bounces back down with 110' of length
>>>>>left, causing another 10d6. When it hits the stone floor, it bounces
>>>>>back up with 100' of length left, causing another 10d6 damage...see
>>>>>where this is going?
>>>>>
>>>>>Aw, heck, I'll spell it out: 120d6 damage to one target.
>>>>
>>>> Read the PH. It doesn't work that way.
>>>
>>>I do not know what version you are playing as I do not know the
>>>Contingency spell. Please forgive me if the Lightning Bolt spell has
>>>been redefined. I can however assure you, at least under 1st ed and 2nd
>>>ed, Lightning Bolt does bounce. I remember in the old SSI games, blue
>>>dragons loved to get you where they could bounce the bolts off walls.
>>>One breath and it might take out a party even if everyone saved. I also
>>>used it to kill many a creature by getting in multiple attacks with one
>>>spell.
>>
>>I seem to recall it was rather vague in 1st edition, but in 2nd edition
>>it was changed so that if the bolt cannot extend(?) to its full length,
>>you are sppsd to extend it from the starting point (towards the caster?)
>>until the full length is reached.
>
>Yeah, this was a very old message - I just happened across it and
>noticed no one had corrected an error.
>
>You were correct that a LIGHTNING BOLT bounced in 1e/2e, but incorrect
>in applying the damage more than once. You could not take more from a
>spell by crossing it several times than you could be staying in it
>continuously. Instead, the official ruling was that you had to make
>an additional SAVING THROW for each time you crossed the spell. So in
>your example the person would take 10d6, or half that if he made 12
>saves. Fail any one of the 12 saves and he caught the bolt full-on at
>least once for the full 10d6 damage. I don't recall offhand if this
>was a separate article in Dragon, or a column like Sage Advice, or
>just what - but it made it clear that it was the official rule.
>
>The typical use for this was for destroying nasty evil magical things
>that only failed a saving throw on a 1. Give a Magic User and put him
>between 2 solid rock walls 5 feet apart. Someone else throws a
>targeted DISPEL MAGIC on the thing to be destroyed and the MU casts
>the LIGHTNING BOLT-BOLT-BOLT-BOLT-etc. Unless it was an Artifact, it
>was very likely to fail a save. The Mage had to eat the 10d6 too, of
>course. Bonuses on saves weren't much help. The only common
>effective thing was if you had a Druid who could cast a PROTECTION
>FROM LIGHTNING on him (cutting the damage 50%), or it was a Druid/Mage
>multiclass casting the PFL on himself (for total immunity) prior to
>the LIGHTNING BOLT.
>
>As I recall, in 1e you could get "angle of incidence equals angle of
>reflection" bounces and do zigzags down a corridor while in 2e it
>always bounced back towards the caster even if it hit a wall at an
>angle. But the "bouncing between two parallel walls" trick worked the
>same in both editions.
>
>Of course, in 3e they got rid of the bounces (dang it <g>).

The really funny thing is, it never did work that way in 1st ed.

I horrified a couple of players (and killed a character) by proving
it.

Here's a quote, from the AD&D PHB, page 74:

If the full length of the stroke is not possible due to the
interposition of a non-conducting barrier (such as a stone wall), the
lightning bolt will double and rebound towards its caster, its length
being the normal total from beginning to end of stroke, damage caused
to interposing barriers notwithstanding. Example: An 8" stroke is
begun at a range of 4", but the possible space in the desired
direction is only 3 1/2"; so the bolt begins at the 3 1/2" maximum,
and it rebounds 8" in the direction of its creator.

Now, here's the relevant section for AD&D2, page 151:

If a bolt cannot reach its full length, because of an unyielding
barrier (such as a stone wall), the lightning bolt rebounds from the
barrier toward its caster, ending only when it reaches its full
length.
Example: An 80-foot-long stroke is begun at a range of 40 feet, but
it hits a stone wall at 50 feet. The bolt travels 10 feet, hits the
wall, and rebounds for 70 feet back toward its creator (who is only 50
feet from the wall, and so is caught in his own lightning bolt!).

AD&D2 was also the one that *optionally* allowed bolts that reflected
off surfaces to, for example, send them around corners.


How the AD&D 1 version works:

I start the bolt at 40 feet, intending it to be an 80 foot bolt that
blows through the wall. It hits a wall at 75 feet (from me; the
bolt's gone 35 feet so far). Unfortunately, the wall is more than a
foot thick, and the bolt can't blow through. So, *starting from the
wall* at 75 feet, the bolt extends *backwards* the full 80 foot
length. I just toasted myself.

Note the important part, there. If the bolt can't blow through, you
start *from the barrier* and proceed backwards *the full length of the
bolt*. It says so right in the example I quoted.

And the AD&D 2 version:

They modified the rule to fold the bolt, because people found it too
complicated to figure the full length of the bolt from the impact
point. So, in AD&D 2, the distance from 40 to 75 gets bolted, then
the bolt hits the wall and turns around, 75 to 40 gets another bunch
of electricity, then 40 to 30 gets charged. I'm safe.



The problem with the AD&D 1 description was this bit: "... will
double and rebound...". The example clearly laid out that it didn't
do that. It started at its impact point and it went the full distance
backwards: "... begins at the 3 1/2" maximum and it rebounds 8" in
the direction...". The "rebound" was the fact that it went the wrong
way, not that it reflected and covered any portion of the distance
twice.

Basically, in AD&D 1, you took an 8" stick and put it down at the
start point of the stroke. If it hit a barrier that it couldn't blow
through, you moved the stick backwards until the end of it touched the
impact point. Everything under the stick, sometimes including the
caster, got fried.

AD&D 1 didn't cover having less than the bolt's length of distance
available. Thus, whether it would rebound again from the wall behind
the wizard or not was up to the DM. Me, I ruled "no". In AD&D 2 I
ruled "yes" because they specifically said it would do so.
 >> Stay informed about: Dirty Spellcaster Tricks