Dirty Spellcaster Tricks

In article <slrnea56tu.u90.sw.TakeThisOut@haven.eyrie.org>, sw.TakeThisOut@eyrie.org says...
> On 2006-06-27, Mouse <mail141023.TakeThisOut@pop.net.invalid> wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:11:09 +0000 (UTC), sw <sw.TakeThisOut@eyrie.org> raised a
> > finger to the sky and proclaimed:
> >>On 2006-06-26, decalod85 <decalod85.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>> The PCs assumed (wrongly) that they had teleported.

> >>> The neogi had cast invisibility on themselves,

> >>Well, that's what they get for failing their Spellcraft checks.
> >
> > Whew. I was hoping I wasn't the only one pedantic enough to notice
> > this first off...
>
> IMC, there's a Warmage, who, if present, will Spellcraft EVERYTHING,

> Now, if he ever started neglecting to do so,

According to the SRD, "Identify a spell being cast. (You must see or hear
the spell?s verbal or somatic components.) No action required. No retry."

IMO this implies that they should always get a spellcraft check, without
having to explicitly ask the DM every time.



--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
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Mark Blunden wrote:
> Some Guy wrote:
>
>
>>Two words: Invisble Caltrops.
>
>
> That's an awful lot of [i]invisibility[/i] spells just for slowing someone
> down.
>
> --�
> Mark.
>
>

There are other ways to make them invisible besides the Invisibility
spell, e.g. under a layer of leaves.

Or, I have four words: Invisibility Sphere (Jumping Caltrops).
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Rast wrote:
> In article <slrnea56tu.u90.sw.RemoveThis@haven.eyrie.org>, sw.RemoveThis@eyrie.org says...
>
>>On 2006-06-27, Mouse <mail141023.RemoveThis@pop.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:11:09 +0000 (UTC), sw <sw.RemoveThis@eyrie.org> raised a
>>>finger to the sky and proclaimed:
>>>
>>>>On 2006-06-26, decalod85 <decalod85.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The PCs assumed (wrongly) that they had teleported.
>
>
>>>>>The neogi had cast invisibility on themselves,
>
>
>>>>Well, that's what they get for failing their Spellcraft checks.
>>>
>>>Whew. I was hoping I wasn't the only one pedantic enough to notice
>>>this first off...
>>
>>IMC, there's a Warmage, who, if present, will Spellcraft EVERYTHING,
>
>
>>Now, if he ever started neglecting to do so,
>
>
> According to the SRD, "Identify a spell being cast. (You must see or hear
> the spell?s verbal or somatic components.) No action required. No retry."
>
> IMO this implies that they should always get a spellcraft check, without
> having to explicitly ask the DM every time.

When those rules were written, immediate actions had not yet been
released, so from a 3.5 instead of 3.75 point of view, you're only going
to be trying to identify someone else's spell when it's not your turn,
and you can't take actions (except speaking) when it's not your turn.
That's what is meant by "no action."

The exact same thing is called a free action in the counterspelling
rules, which are used by you readying a counterspell.
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Some Guy wrote:
> Rast wrote:
> > IMO this implies that they should always get a spellcraft check, without
> > having to explicitly ask the DM every time.
>
> When those rules were written, immediate actions had not yet been
> released, so from a 3.5 instead of 3.75 point of view, you're only going
> to be trying to identify someone else's spell when it's not your turn,
> and you can't take actions (except speaking) when it's not your turn.
> That's what is meant by "no action."
>
> The exact same thing is called a free action in the counterspelling
> rules, which are used by you readying a counterspell.

I agree with Some Guy. No one asked, they just assumed that
these guys were high enough level to teleport. The Enslave Monster
ability of the neogi has them really boggled.

Remember also, spellcraft is a trained skill, so only the trained can
use it...
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earthpig wrote:

> Reverse Gravity (dismiss the reverse gravity for a double whammy)

There's the "Infinite Loop Reverse Gravity" trick.

Make a room that's a vertical cylinder with sheer sides and sloping floor
and roof, both greased, like so:

|\
| \
| \
| \
| \
| \
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
\ |
\ |
\ |
\ |_____
\ _____
\ |
\|

A Reverse Gravity spell is set to trigger when someone steps in from the
corridor, but it only covers the right-hand side of the room - so they fall
up to the ceiling taking falling damage, slide up the greased ceiling until
they exit the Reverse Gravity field, fall down to the floor taking falling
damage, slide down the greased floor until they enter the Reverse Gravity
field, fall up to the ceiling taking falling damage...

--�
Mark.
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Rast wrote:
> In article <slrnea56tu.u90.sw.TakeThisOut@haven.eyrie.org>, sw.TakeThisOut@eyrie.org says...
> > On 2006-06-27, Mouse <mail141023.TakeThisOut@pop.net.invalid> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:11:09 +0000 (UTC), sw <sw.TakeThisOut@eyrie.org> raised a
> > > finger to the sky and proclaimed:
> > >>On 2006-06-26, decalod85 <decalod85.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >>> The PCs assumed (wrongly) that they had teleported.
>
> > >>> The neogi had cast invisibility on themselves,
>
> > >>Well, that's what they get for failing their Spellcraft checks.
> > >
> > > Whew. I was hoping I wasn't the only one pedantic enough to notice
> > > this first off...
> >
> > IMC, there's a Warmage, who, if present, will Spellcraft EVERYTHING,
>
> > Now, if he ever started neglecting to do so,
>
> According to the SRD, "Identify a spell being cast. (You must see or hear
> the spell?s verbal or somatic components.) No action required. No retry."
>
> IMO this implies that they should always get a spellcraft check, without
> having to explicitly ask the DM every time.
>
>
>
> --
> "Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
> am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
> commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance


mmmm... rolling a spell craft check for every character and npc
everytime a spell is cast seems like a lot of extra rolling 99% of the
time being useless.

thats gonna slow down combat.

slowing down combat is lame.

--

unan
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Mark Blunden wrote:
> Lorenz.Lang DeleteThis @gmx.de wrote:
> > Mark Blunden wrote:
> >> earthpig wrote:
> >>
> >>> Reverse Gravity (dismiss the reverse gravity for a double whammy)
> >>
> >> There's the "Infinite Loop Reverse Gravity" trick.
> >>
> >> Make a room that's a vertical cylinder with sheer sides and sloping
> >> floor and roof, both greased, like so:
> >>
> >>> \
> >>> \
> >>> \
> >>> \
> >>> \
> >>> \
> >>> |
> >>> |
> >>> |
> >>> |
> >>> |
> >> \ |
> >> \ |
> >> \ |
> >> \ |_____
> >> \ _____
> >> \ |
> >> \|
> >>
> >> A Reverse Gravity spell is set to trigger when someone steps in from
> >> the corridor, but it only covers the right-hand side of the room -
> >> so they fall up to the ceiling taking falling damage, slide up the
> >> greased ceiling until they exit the Reverse Gravity field, fall down
> >> to the floor taking falling damage, slide down the greased floor
> >> until they enter the Reverse Gravity field, fall up to the ceiling
> >> taking falling damage...
> >>
> >
> > That's really mean, but unless the corridor is sloped and greased for
> > all to slide into the trap, it will only get the first.
>
> Well, I didn't want to be *too* mean, even with a dirty trick.
>
> > After one full circle the PC will try to catch hold of the corridor
> > ceiling
> > or the others throw a rope for him to catch.
> > What would be the DC for such stunts?
>
> Catching the ledge is very tricky. The rules for a falling character
> catching themselves are to use a Climb check at the surface's Climb DC +20.
> The ledge will count as "An overhang or ceiling with handholds but no
> footholds", so that's DC 45 in total, without taking into account the
> trickiness of actually getting across to the ledge before you fall past it.
>
> Catching a thrown rope would be easier, maybe a DC 18 Dex check.
>
> > Another idea: the entry point for the vicious circle could be a trap
> > door in the left part of the ceiling...
>
> That would be a nasty way to do it.
>
> Other variations include lulling the party with a gently-sloping ramp
> leading from the doorway into the room. The 'ramp' is actually hinged at the
> doorway, so when the reverse-gravity kicks in, it 'falls' up and slams into
> place over the doorway, blocking it as a door.
>
> You can also make the trap a lot more vicious by including something like a
> Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier, which the victim must fall through each
> cycle.

Wall of Fire *and* Blade Barrier.

"Whaa?...AHHHH...*burn*....AHHH...*slash*...AHHH....*BLAM*
....*slip*...Huh?...AHHHH...*slash*...AHHHH...*burn*....AHHHH
*BLAM*...*slip*..."
Repeat from start.

LL
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Lorenz.Lang RemoveThis @gmx.de wrote:
> Mark Blunden wrote:
>> earthpig wrote:
>>
>>> Reverse Gravity (dismiss the reverse gravity for a double whammy)
>>
>> There's the "Infinite Loop Reverse Gravity" trick.
>>
>> Make a room that's a vertical cylinder with sheer sides and sloping
>> floor and roof, both greased, like so:
>>
>>> \
>>> \
>>> \
>>> \
>>> \
>>> \
>>> |
>>> |
>>> |
>>> |
>>> |
>> \ |
>> \ |
>> \ |
>> \ |_____
>> \ _____
>> \ |
>> \|
>>
>> A Reverse Gravity spell is set to trigger when someone steps in from
>> the corridor, but it only covers the right-hand side of the room -
>> so they fall up to the ceiling taking falling damage, slide up the
>> greased ceiling until they exit the Reverse Gravity field, fall down
>> to the floor taking falling damage, slide down the greased floor
>> until they enter the Reverse Gravity field, fall up to the ceiling
>> taking falling damage...
>>
>
> That's really mean, but unless the corridor is sloped and greased for
> all to slide into the trap, it will only get the first.

Well, I didn't want to be *too* mean, even with a dirty trick.

> After one full circle the PC will try to catch hold of the corridor
> ceiling
> or the others throw a rope for him to catch.
> What would be the DC for such stunts?

Catching the ledge is very tricky. The rules for a falling character
catching themselves are to use a Climb check at the surface's Climb DC +20.
The ledge will count as "An overhang or ceiling with handholds but no
footholds", so that's DC 45 in total, without taking into account the
trickiness of actually getting across to the ledge before you fall past it.

Catching a thrown rope would be easier, maybe a DC 18 Dex check.

> Another idea: the entry point for the vicious circle could be a trap
> door in the left part of the ceiling...

That would be a nasty way to do it.

Other variations include lulling the party with a gently-sloping ramp
leading from the doorway into the room. The 'ramp' is actually hinged at the
doorway, so when the reverse-gravity kicks in, it 'falls' up and slams into
place over the doorway, blocking it as a door.

You can also make the trap a lot more vicious by including something like a
Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier, which the victim must fall through each
cycle.

--�
Mark.
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decalod85 wrote:

> Any other dirty tricks along these lines....?

There are times that I miss 2nd Edition. How about a combination if
Insatiable Thirst and Watery Double?

A friend of mine came up with this trick: Use Contingency and Lightning
Bolt. Set the Lightning Bolt to fire straight up when someone enters
the target square. Cast this combo in a 10' high corridor. When the
lightning bolt triggers, it goes straight up, causing 10d6 damage (since
you need to be 14th level to cast Contingency, but LB caps at 10d6).
When it hits the stone ceiling, it bounces back down with 110' of length
left, causing another 10d6. When it hits the stone floor, it bounces
back up with 100' of length left, causing another 10d6 damage...see
where this is going?

Aw, heck, I'll spell it out: 120d6 damage to one target.


Here's another fun one, that a lower-level caster can pull off. Cast
six Glyphs of Warding in a corridor, three triggered to go off when a
character enters from one side, three triggered to go off when they
enter from the other side. Thusly:
< < < > > >
Where the points indicate the direction of travel to trigger the Glyph.

So the party reaches the fourth Glyph in order, and trigger it.
Thinking, "Okay, we've set off the trap," they proceed to the next
square...and trigger that one. Thinking, "Okay, the way we came was
safe," they backtrack...and trigger that one...


This one is more involved, but good clean fun: The PCs are hired by a
King to rescue his daughter. They aren't given a description of the
daughter or her kidnapper, but are told exactly where to find her. They
go there, to find a massive Red Dragon curled around a sleeping girl...

Now here's the kicker: The Red is in fact a Gold, that has had a
disguising glamer put on it to make it look red. The girl is the
sorceress that has charmed the Dragon...Imagine the King's face when the
party deliver the girl, and inform him that they killed the dragon.

Yep, it's 'Rescue the Dragon from the Evil Maiden'...
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Tail Kinker wrote:
> decalod85 wrote:
>
> > Any other dirty tricks along these lines....?

<snip>

> This one is more involved, but good clean fun: The PCs are hired by a
> King to rescue his daughter. They aren't given a description of the
> daughter or her kidnapper, but are told exactly where to find her. They
> go there, to find a massive Red Dragon curled around a sleeping girl...
>
> Now here's the kicker: The Red is in fact a Gold, that has had a
> disguising glamer put on it to make it look red. The girl is the
> sorceress that has charmed the Dragon...Imagine the King's face when the
> party deliver the girl, and inform him that they killed the dragon.
>
> Yep, it's 'Rescue the Dragon from the Evil Maiden'...

I *have* to try this one. It should be even nastier than the soul
golems I'm planning on using.

Kudos for the great idea.

Bill
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On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:32:30 +0100, Mark Blunden wrote:

> You can also make the trap a lot more vicious by including something like a
> Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier, which the victim must fall through each
> cycle.

Heck, you could use a non-magical blade driven by a windmill or a water
wheel in an neighbouring shaft, (assuming you allow 'physics tricks').

--
Phoenix
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:40:50 -0400, Rast <rast2 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>According to the SRD, "Identify a spell being cast. (You must see or hear
>the spell?s verbal or somatic components.) No action required. No retry."
>
>IMO this implies that they should always get a spellcraft check, without
>having to explicitly ask the DM every time.

Agreed.

Note, also, Neverwinter Nights. You got an automatic spellcraft.
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 00:55:19 -0500, Erol K. Bayburt
<ErolB1.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:

>>As a DM I wouldn't allow this. You're going to have to sing that note
>>when you cast the spell--and there goes your bulb!
>
>Fair enough - I could see a DM's ruling going either way on it.
>
>A question, though. Do *magic mouth* spells in your campaigns always
>speak with the voice of the caster? Would a character hearing a
>*mouth* get a Listen check (or some other skill check) to recognize
>the caster? Would the caster have to make a Perform check (or some
>other skill check) to disguise his voice?
>
>As I said, I could see a DM ruling either way - either allowing a
>caster to specify the sound *without* having to duplicate it exactly,
>or else requiring the mouth to *exactly duplicate* the voice of the
>caster. But either way, I'd want the DM to be consistent about it.

I've always pictured MM to work like a tape recorder. I would be
inclined to give some extra flexibility in his speech while casting
it, though.
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