New to Diplomacy, where to start?

> Casey, though I am a big proponent of the postal hobby it is NOT the
> best way to start since the games are so slow you won't learn like
> you should. I also think it is not that useful to play against other
> novices in the "novice games" on the Judge, though by all means try
> it if you want, since what you really want to do is play other
> players who are good and learn from them.

The novice queue games have a number of frustrations, but I do
recommend playing at least one as a 'rite of passage' if you
are considering judge play as your most likely outlet in the hobby. At
the present time, there is a lot of absenteeism and resignations, which
is frustrating, but there are also a number of GMs who are doing their
best to make the novice game a solid learning experience. Alan Mennel
and Todd Lawson, for example, actively recruit players for Diplomacy
Direct, which is a novice group with the goal of transitioning players
into Dipsters in a year. I offer DD referrals too, but I'm mostly
interested in increasing the quality of the general player pool. If you
join a "ns######" game from the Openings page or if I pull your address
out of the queue then you'll get tutorials and thorough, patient answers
to many of the questions. Yes, I tell people to read the manual, but I
know that the judge docs aren't *exactly* straightforward so I
understand the need to provide additional guidance.

It's just tough to get a face to face group going unless you already
know a bunch of other geeks. For postal and hand-moderated play by
email, you really need to have a good grasp of the game and the pacing
before you make a commitment. Real Time has its pros and cons, but it's
almost exclusively no press and there are almost always bots playing.
The nice thing about the judge is that it handles the pacing of the
game and lets you get 7 human players without excessive delays. The
trade off is that the interface leaves a lot to be desired... and so
far graphical patches to the interface do not seem to have not
translated into an improved playing experience.

I have my own theories and plans, but the state of things is that the
judges are a distant second best to live play, but good preparation
for whatever non-live format you end up preferring.

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: New to Diplomacy, where to start? 

Casey <unnamedrambler.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> writes:

Casey, though I am a big proponent of the postal hobby it is NOT the best
way to start since the games are so slow you won't learn like you should.
I also think it is not that useful to play against other novices in the
"novice games" on the Judge, though by all means try it if you want, since
what you really want to do is play other players who are good and learn
from them.

If you have time, going through whole games on the Showcase is WELL worth
the while, as one who as contributed to a number of them.

Jim-Bob

>Hello,

>I have only recently discovered Diplomacy (a couple months or so), but
>I've been doing quite a bit of reading and I am very excited to play
>my first game. Unfortunately I am a poor college student, and can't
>afford the $100 price of the "Real Thing" on Ebay, though I am keeping
>my eyes peeled.

>I've read quite a bit about email/online and postal play. From what
>I've gathered it seems that postal play is more rewarding than email
>play, however, postal play involves a significant time commitment. I
>don't particularly mind this commitment, however being a complete
>neophyte I am not sure postal play would be so rewarding. Also there
>seems to be multiple options for email play, primarily, judged or non
>judged (by bots). It seems the judged games (like at floc.net) are the
>more popular option, but the required knowledge of syntax for
>submitting orders and communicating is somewhat daunting. There are
>other options I've read about too for online play. For example,
>phpdiplomacy.net and 'realtime' games that take place on an instant
>messenger, though the latter seems to seldom be found.

>So, I was hoping I could get some thoughts on how/where a good
>starting place would be for a novice to start playing?

>Regards,
>Casey
 >> Stay informed about: New to Diplomacy, where to start? 

Thanks for the responses Jim, Chris, and David..

David:
Thanks for your website.. I found quite a few more resources from your
links.

Jim:
Woah! Thanks for the reference to the Showcase.. I am going through it
now, and it has already proven to be invaluable

Chris:
When you refer to the 'Openings' page are you referring to the
openings page on dpjudge (http://www.floc.net/dpjudge)? Or is there
another Judge website? Regarding joining a game that is already in
progress.. should I avoid those openings as a new player?

For my first game I was hoping I could find a real-time game, because,
theoretically, it wouldn't last as long and it would give me some
quick game playing experience. Reading about the differences in real-
time and non-real-time (postal/email) has led me to the conclusion
that the experience I gained wouldn't necessarily prepare me for non-
real-time play.
One final question (for this post at least): playing multiple (two or
three) games as a new player -> is it recommended?

Casey
 >> Stay informed about: New to Diplomacy, where to start? 

Casey,

Obviously there are a lot of opinions on the best venue to play, so let my
suggestion out: face to face. There are now face-to-face groups in or
around most major cities in the US, so that's one way to go, depending on
where you live. Or find some friends, teach them the game, and play (you
said you're a college student - many campuses have gaming clubs where you
might find some more players as well). For a game with all new players, I
recommend keeping negotiation deadlines to around 10 minutes so it keeps
moving.

-Adam


"Casey" <unnamedrambler RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3159ca8e-c9aa-459f-8a37-a96e5b213181@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the responses Jim, Chris, and David..
>
> David:
> Thanks for your website.. I found quite a few more resources from your
> links.
>
> Jim:
> Woah! Thanks for the reference to the Showcase.. I am going through it
> now, and it has already proven to be invaluable
>
> Chris:
> When you refer to the 'Openings' page are you referring to the
> openings page on dpjudge (http://www.floc.net/dpjudge)? Or is there
> another Judge website? Regarding joining a game that is already in
> progress.. should I avoid those openings as a new player?
>
> For my first game I was hoping I could find a real-time game, because,
> theoretically, it wouldn't last as long and it would give me some
> quick game playing experience. Reading about the differences in real-
> time and non-real-time (postal/email) has led me to the conclusion
> that the experience I gained wouldn't necessarily prepare me for non-
> real-time play.
> One final question (for this post at least): playing multiple (two or
> three) games as a new player -> is it recommended?
>
> Casey
 >> Stay informed about: New to Diplomacy, where to start? 

In article <2df0c4e8-7b12-44a0-9774-ae72809d9192 DeleteThis @d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Casey <unnamedrambler DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>I have only recently discovered Diplomacy (a couple months or so), but
>I've been doing quite a bit of reading and I am very excited to play
>my first game. Unfortunately I am a poor college student, and can't
>afford the $100 price of the "Real Thing" on Ebay, though I am keeping
>my eyes peeled.

Hi Casey,

One good thing about Diplomacy is that you only need one set for
7 players.... Where are you? Maybe someone can suggest a face to
face game opportunity in your area.

Here in Seattle we are having a tournament in January, for example,
and a pick-up teaching game could be arranged pretty easily. I
know the same is true in SF. But I don't know where you are....

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner DeleteThis @eskimo.com
 >> Stay informed about: New to Diplomacy, where to start? 

http://www.dipbounced.com All different variants and levels of players.

"Casey" <unnamedrambler.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2df0c4e8-7b12-44a0-9774-ae72809d9192@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Hello,
>
> I have only recently discovered Diplomacy (a couple months or so), but
> I've been doing quite a bit of reading and I am very excited to play
> my first game. Unfortunately I am a poor college student, and can't
> afford the $100 price of the "Real Thing" on Ebay, though I am keeping
> my eyes peeled.
>
> I've read quite a bit about email/online and postal play. From what
> I've gathered it seems that postal play is more rewarding than email
> play, however, postal play involves a significant time commitment. I
> don't particularly mind this commitment, however being a complete
> neophyte I am not sure postal play would be so rewarding. Also there
> seems to be multiple options for email play, primarily, judged or non
> judged (by bots). It seems the judged games (like at floc.net) are the
> more popular option, but the required knowledge of syntax for
> submitting orders and communicating is somewhat daunting. There are
> other options I've read about too for online play. For example,
> phpdiplomacy.net and 'realtime' games that take place on an instant
> messenger, though the latter seems to seldom be found.
>
> So, I was hoping I could get some thoughts on how/where a good
> starting place would be for a novice to start playing?
>
> Regards,
> Casey
 >> Stay informed about: New to Diplomacy, where to start? 

> When you refer to the 'Openings' page are you referring to the
> openings page on dpjudge (http://www.floc.net/dpjudge)? Or is there
> another Judge website? Regarding joining a game that is already in
> progress..

http://diplom.org/openings/openings.html

This page has listings for all the public judges - not just USDP, which
is slightly different than the others.

> should I avoid those openings as a new player?

On the contrary, those are ideal games to join if you wish to shorten
your initial commitment.

> For my first game I was hoping I could find a real-time game, because,
> theoretically, it wouldn't last as long and it would give me some
> quick game playing experience. Reading about the differences in real-
> time and non-real-time (postal/email) has led me to the conclusion
> that the experience I gained wouldn't necessarily prepare me for non-
> real-time play.

There are some significant differences, mostly in pacing, but skills
are skills. Starting an email or postal game wouldn't prevent you
from joining a real time game. The time between turns allows a new
player to study the position exhaustively, which can be a learning
experience for an individual with the right drive.

> One final question (for this post at least): playing multiple (two or
> three) games as a new player -> is it recommended?

It's not an issue for real time play, of course.

I usually recommend playing your first email game through 1905 before
joining a second game. You have no idea how zeal will translate into
commitment in a shorter period of time than that. Even then, it's not
unusual for an IT department to take up to 3 months to notice that
someone is using a work account for a game. Significant others may have
similar variability. You don't want to be committed in 3 games when
finals come around and your girlfriend starts demanding more attention.
When she says, "It's me or the game," I can guarantee that you'll take
too long thinking about it for your own good. You'll work it out, but
your game and the rest of your life will suffer for your hesitation.

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: New to Diplomacy, where to start?