Death in Dungeons & Dragons

richard d wrote:
> I think at the end of the day it's all going to come down to money.

What about the gaming group, campaign style and DM?
They are more important than the money IMO.

> In 3rd ed, magic equates to money. Everything (bar artifacts) is
> available to you if you've got the cash.

Only if you like it that way...

> 3rd ed also seems to suppose a world where there is lots and lots of
> money around so you have an economy where shops abound with magic items
> and people are queueing up at the local church to get their characters
> resurrected.

Only if there's a 13th level cleric at each local church with Wis 17+,
who's got time enough to ressurrect (one or two guys per day BTW)...
....wihout checking somehow if they are worthy targets - not in a
monetary sense of course.

> If this high-magic style of campaign bothers you (as it does me,
> because I just find it too hard to imagine how such a world operates),
> then take the money away.

"The Sixth Day" uses pseudo-science instead of magic...

> Reduce the amount of cash players get from
> their dungeoneering exploits. Make them think hard before they invest
> even a 100gp pearl for an Identify spell. A character of 6th or 7th
> level might accumulate enough cash to buy a Raise Dead, but not 2. So
> the second time he dies he dies from poverty too.

Standard wealth level of a 6th level PC is 13.000 gp and Raise Dead
costs at least 5250gp (and a level). It's not too cheap by the standard

rules. Only if you handwave or houserule away some of the restrictions
and non-monetary problems that may happen, you'll end up in a
no-death wonderland campaign.

> And with no money flying around the economy, those high-end luxury
> trinket shops, like magic item shops, go out of business, and
> spellcasters no longer consider it worth while spending lots of time
> and effort creating them.

The amount of available money affects the power of PCs.
The game assumes a certain power level including (bought) magic
items. More deaths and fewer "raises" would result at the same time,
if the wealth level is halved.

IMC you must be a follower of the same god or goddess or at least
be well known to the cleric, otherwise he would simply refuse to cast
"Raise Dead". Why should he bring back random strangers?
Most clerics would demand more than money for bringing someone
back from the dead. The PC owes him his life after all.
So a 'quest' in addition to (or in place of) the money is certainly
appropriate.

The higher and better (True) Resurrection is *only* available to
clerics
of two greater gods IMC. I put them into their "Cycle of Life" domain
and removed them from the standard list.

LL
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Marnok.com wrote:

> I don't know of any major literary fictional world where death is just a
> minor annoyance.

Never heard of riverworld eh?
 >> Stay informed about: Death in Dungeons & Dragons 

"Marnok.com" <wizardharry.TakeThisOut@pottermarnok.com> wrote in
news:Lp6dnbPSFs1awcXZnZ2dnUVZ8qWdnZ2d@giganews.com:

> I don't know of any major literary fictional world where death is just
> a minor annoyance.

You should read some Steven Brust.

--
"So there is no third law of Terrydynamics."
-- William Hyde
Terry Austin
 >> Stay informed about: Death in Dungeons & Dragons 

"Marnok.com" <wizardharry DeleteThis @pottermarnok.com> wrote in
news:WcCdnb3llvL4bMXZRVny1w@giganews.com:

> Right then, I shall.
>
Look for, specifically, the Vlad Taltos stuff. There's other Dragaeran
Empire stuff (Phoenix Guards and sequels), but there's no raising of the
dead in it (for reasons that are actually the subject of some of the
books). Very gamish, and based on a roleplaying game Brust was involved in
many, many years ago.

And in many ways, death is a minor inconvenience. If you have the right
friends.

--
"So there is no third law of Terrydynamics."
-- William Hyde
Terry Austin
 >> Stay informed about: Death in Dungeons & Dragons 

No 33 Secretary wrote:

> Look for, specifically, the Vlad Taltos stuff. There's other Dragaeran
> Empire stuff (Phoenix Guards and sequels), but there's no raising of the
> dead in it (for reasons that are actually the subject of some of the
> books). Very gamish, and based on a roleplaying game Brust was involved in
> many, many years ago.
>
> And in many ways, death is a minor inconvenience. If you have the right
> friends.

Been awhile since I've read any of the books, but isn't there a way to
make death permanent or at least mostly permanent? If you use a
special weapon that's not all that hard to get ahold of you can destroy
the target's soul, something like that? I remember liking the
explanation
of the use of assassination as a message. If you're just annoyed with
the target, you inconvenience him by killing him and forcing him to
get resurrected. If you're really pissed, you pay extra and have him
killed permanently. D&D doesn't really have that option, or at least
not as an easy thing to achieve. Whether that's bad or good depends
on personal opinion, of course.

Pete
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Justisaur wrote:
> Marnok.com wrote:
>
>
>>I don't know of any major literary fictional world where death is just a
>>minor annoyance.
>
>
> Never heard of riverworld eh?
>

Ah, another multi-volume series that I set aside to read but never got
around to. Is it worth spending a couple of weeks on, in your opinion?
 >> Stay informed about: Death in Dungeons & Dragons 

"Peter Meilinger" <p_meilinger.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1146699530.234667.62230@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> No 33 Secretary wrote:
>
>> Look for, specifically, the Vlad Taltos stuff. There's other
>> Dragaeran Empire stuff (Phoenix Guards and sequels), but there's no
>> raising of the dead in it (for reasons that are actually the subject
>> of some of the books). Very gamish, and based on a roleplaying game
>> Brust was involved in many, many years ago.
>>
>> And in many ways, death is a minor inconvenience. If you have the
>> right friends.
>
> Been awhile since I've read any of the books, but isn't there a way to
> make death permanent or at least mostly permanent?

Well, of course. That's a necessary component to any magic system that
allows raising the dead.

> If you use a
> special weapon that's not all that hard to get ahold of you can
> destroy the target's soul, something like that?

Morganti weapons destroy the soul. (Great Weapons are morganti, but can
decide whether or not to eat the tasty treat. The possessor might be able
to influence the process.)

One can also prevent ressurection by destroying the brain (and probably
other methods).

>I remember liking the
> explanation
> of the use of assassination as a message. If you're just annoyed with
> the target, you inconvenience him by killing him and forcing him to
> get resurrected. If you're really pissed, you pay extra and have him
> killed permanently. D&D doesn't really have that option, or at least
> not as an easy thing to achieve. Whether that's bad or good depends
> on personal opinion, of course.
>
Back in the glory days, where we didn't play Dungeons & Dragons so much as
Turrets & Magic Items, we had an elaborate mythology of game mechanics on
how to permanently kill someone. Various magical effects, and so on. Or
sacrificing them to a god, which required negotiating with the god to get
the soul back. I recall one guy got a cursed magic item (with artifact
level power) at a convention. The curse was that anyone who sat on it was
sacrificed to an unknown god. The play scribbled that bit down, and started
walking away, literally giggling to himself. The GM was a bit put out,
since he hadn't told the player what the _good_ powers were. "Don't you
want to know what else it does?" "Nope. I'm happy." Giggle.

Cuz, if the god you sacrifice someone to is _defined_ as unknown, who do
you negotiate with to get the soul back?

--
"So there is no third law of Terrydynamics."
-- William Hyde
Terry Austin
 >> Stay informed about: Death in Dungeons & Dragons 

On Wed, 03 May 2006 17:36:29 -0700, Some Guy
<noemailformethanks.TakeThisOut@anyplace.invalid> wrote:

>Justisaur wrote:
>> Marnok.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't know of any major literary fictional world where death is just a
>>>minor annoyance.
>>
>>
>> Never heard of riverworld eh?
>>
>
>Ah, another multi-volume series that I set aside to read but never got
>around to. Is it worth spending a couple of weeks on, in your opinion?

You won't need weeks for it, they ain't big.

I think I'll have to go home and dig em out now I've been reminded.
Really enjoyed them.
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Iain Norman wrote:
> On Wed, 03 May 2006 17:36:29 -0700, Some Guy
> <noemailformethanks.RemoveThis@anyplace.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>Justisaur wrote:
>>
>>>Marnok.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I don't know of any major literary fictional world where death is just a
>>>>minor annoyance.
>>>
>>>
>>>Never heard of riverworld eh?
>>>
>>
>>Ah, another multi-volume series that I set aside to read but never got
>>around to. Is it worth spending a couple of weeks on, in your opinion?
>
>
> You won't need weeks for it, they ain't big.

It's five volumes, IIRC. Since I only get about 2 hours a night to
read, I'm budgeting for a long span.

> I think I'll have to go home and dig em out now I've been reminded.
> Really enjoyed them.

Thanks for the review. Maybe I'll dust 'em off and give them a try,
once I get through with my current re-read of all the Arkham House
Cthulhu books (Lovecraft, not Derleth et al).
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