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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>gurps (more info?)
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On 26 May 2006 03:18:06 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On 25 May 2006 17:30:19 GMT, raven RemoveThis @westnet.poe.com wrote:
>>
>> >Bruce Wayne <Batman475 RemoveThis @webtv.net> wrote:
>> >> Also, Is it worth buying into 4th ed. when I have unused 3rd ed. stuff
>> >> sitting here?
>> >
>> >Nah. IMHO, there was really very little need to go with a 4th ed except
>> >for a percieved stagantion in the player base.
>>
>> There was a considerable need to go with a 4th edition if you have any
>> hopes of using GURPS as a superhero system.
>
>And if you never plan to use GURPS for supers?
Then it is somewhat better than the previous edition but not "needed"
as such, unless maybe you are doing a science fiction game. GURPS was
good enough for fantasy and modern.
Things I consider improvements
1. Abandonment of Passive Defense means that the best way to create
an acrobatic dodger is no longer to put him in plate mail.
2. Making ultra tech weapons armour divisors instead of increasing
the number of dice means that you no longer have the problem that if
you can get through the armour at all you will surely do your
blowthrough damage. Also they've abandoned the stupidity of lasers
stacking their autofire dice.
3. Value of advantages generally better balanced so you don't need to
piss away major points on something with little or no game effect like
Longevity to fit your concept.
4. The stupidity of having umpteen different biological specialities
with other sciences not similarly subdivided has been abandoned
5. Wizards now find missile spells useful.
6. They got rid of the inane IQ bonus to firearms skill
7. Y'know, using ST for hit points and HT for fatigue and rolls
versus death or unconsciousness really does make more sense.
8. The addition of Talents and cheaper ST and HT give good
alternatives to the high DX characters.
9. A bunch of skills and advantages that were scattered all over the
place are now in one book, at least for now.
10. Psi no longer kicks magics ass.
11. Getting a super advantage with the -10% "mana dependant" is a
much better alternative to knacks.
Things I consider to be inferior
1. I really don't like the technique rules. Don't think I'd use
them. And applying them to all skills strikes me as a bit of a
boondoggle. I expect lots of people trying for an exploit.
2. Going to "all hardcover" is an unnecessary expense, particularly
since the damn things fall apart just like the soft covers.
3. Still haven't fixed the Time Travel spell. |
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 657
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Johnston wrote:
> On 26 May 2006 18:54:26 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >David Johnston wrote:
> >> On 26 May 2006 13:06:50 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >> 3. Value of advantages generally better balanced so you don't need to
> >> >> piss away major points on something with little or no game effect like
> >> >> Longevity to fit your concept.
> >> >
> >> >Most broken point costs can be directly linked to overpriced advantgaes
> >> >from Supers.
> >>
> >> Which were also used in Aliens and consequently contaminated large
> >> parts of the science fiction genre.
> >
> >The costs were also used in Fantasy Folk and contaminated large parts
> >of the fantasy genre 
>
> And now that's fixed.
And could have been done without sucha radical revision to the rest of
the system.
> >> >> 6. They got rid of the inane IQ bonus to firearms skill
> >> >
> >> >Was a bonus that made sense.
> >>
> >> Because you need to be so much smarter to use a gun than to use a bow,
> >> or a sword?
> >
> >No. Because firing a gun is really easier than an Easy skill
>
> Even if that was true in reality, (and it isn't, because an amazing
> number of bullets miss in the typical gun fight) it's not a good idea
> in the gaming sense.
There are a lot of misses in a gun fight because the shooter is usually
greatly concerned about not getting hit, which reduces his
effectiveness significantly.
> >> You
> >> could take out anyone except a similar psionic guaranteed if you could
> >> just get in range and psionics had no fatigue costs and no range
> >> penalties.
> >
> >I never had any problems with this.
>
> Because you handwaved most of the limitations of magic away.
I did?
Brandon >> Stay informed about: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? |
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Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 657
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 12:24 am
Post subject: Re: 4e Psionics [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jefferson wrote:
> copeab.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Jefferson wrote:
> >
> >>Well, psionics IS now slightly weaker than standard magic, but at
> >>least its now balanced against the rest of the advantage system,
> >
> > Mainly advantages from Supers, which were overpriced to begin with.
> > IMHO, magic and psionics should have (mostly) been left alone and super
> > advantages severely revised.
>
> Incorrect. The main problems in Supers weren't price related at
> all
Sure they were.
>, and even the problems that were were more underpricing
Nope. The vast majority of pricing problems were overpricing.
> mismatched alternatives (DR vs. Extra Hit
> Points).
Right, EHP were overpriced.
> >>and increasing power levels is far easier than decreasing them.
> >
> > Standard 4e psionics also lacks the skill vs power of 3e.
>
> _BASIC_ lack it. It's in POWERS, which is where it belongs.
Which makes means 4e psionics is incomplete without spending another
$40.
> >>This is still far superior to 3e where GMs had to establish
> >>strict controls to keep psionics from getting out of hand, even
> >>over magic.
> >
> > Depends on what you call strict.
>
> Whenever players have to ask for GM rulings at least once a session.
Unless you create new characters ever session, then 3e psionics didn't
need strict controls by your definition.
What I see is that some GMs were unable to control their own campaigns
and made whining demands for rule changes to cover their incompetence.
Congratulations, GURPS 4e has been dumbed down for you.
Brandon >> Stay informed about: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? |
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 12:40 am
Post subject: Re: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 26 May 2006 18:50:14 -0400, Toubrouk <Toubrouk DeleteThis @sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>
>This is the only beef I got against 4th Ed: Way too much stuff for a
>mundane game. As far as cybernetic goes, it's only a advantage with the
>"-10%, Cybernetic" modifier on it.
Which I think works very well. >> Stay informed about: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? |
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 12:57 am
Post subject: Re: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 26 May 2006 13:06:50 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> 3. Value of advantages generally better balanced so you don't need to
>> piss away major points on something with little or no game effect like
>> Longevity to fit your concept.
>
>Most broken point costs can be directly linked to overpriced advantgaes
>from Supers.
Which were also used in Aliens and consequently contaminated large
parts of the science fiction genre.
>
>> 6. They got rid of the inane IQ bonus to firearms skill
>
>Was a bonus that made sense.
Because you need to be so much smarter to use a gun than to use a bow,
or a sword?
>
>> 10. Psi no longer kicks magics ass.
>
>Wrong. Magic and psi were fairly balanced in 3e, with different
>strengths and weaknesses.
No, they weren't. Telepaths and Telekinetics with were gods and you
didn't have to follow a long prerequisite chain to get there. You
could take out anyone except a similar psionic guaranteed if you could
just get in range and psionics had no fatigue costs and no range
penalties. The only advantage that magic had was a wider variety of
comparatively rather ineffectual effects. >> Stay informed about: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? |
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Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 657
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 1:08 am
Post subject: Re: 4e Psionics [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Johnston wrote:
> On 27 May 2006 00:24:34 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> > Standard 4e psionics also lacks the skill vs power of 3e.
> >>
> >> _BASIC_ lack it. It's in POWERS, which is where it belongs.
> >
> >Which makes means 4e psionics is incomplete without spending another
> >$40.
>
> That is of course no different from 3rd edition psionics except that
> the price of books has gone up.
The psionic rules in 3e Basic weren't broken and didn't required 3e
Psionics to fix.
Brandon >> Stay informed about: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? |
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 26 May 2006 18:54:26 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On 26 May 2006 13:06:50 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >> 3. Value of advantages generally better balanced so you don't need to
>> >> piss away major points on something with little or no game effect like
>> >> Longevity to fit your concept.
>> >
>> >Most broken point costs can be directly linked to overpriced advantgaes
>> >from Supers.
>>
>> Which were also used in Aliens and consequently contaminated large
>> parts of the science fiction genre.
>
>The costs were also used in Fantasy Folk and contaminated large parts
>of the fantasy genre
And now that's fixed.
>
>> >> 6. They got rid of the inane IQ bonus to firearms skill
>> >
>> >Was a bonus that made sense.
>>
>> Because you need to be so much smarter to use a gun than to use a bow,
>> or a sword?
>
>No. Because firing a gun is really easier than an Easy skill
Even if that was true in reality, (and it isn't, because an amazing
number of bullets miss in the typical gun fight) it's not a good idea
in the gaming sense.
You didn't have
>to have as high a IQ as a mage, but it was best to be above-average in
>IQ.
>
>> You
>> could take out anyone except a similar psionic guaranteed if you could
>> just get in range and psionics had no fatigue costs and no range
>> penalties.
>
>I never had any problems with this.
Because you handwaved most of the limitations of magic away.
>
>> The only advantage that magic had was a wider variety of
>> comparatively rather ineffectual effects.
>
>Magic had some rather potent mind-control spells.
The comparable Telepathy skills cost no fatigue, had longer effective
ranges, were more flexible in application, and didn't summon up demons
to eat you when you fumbled. >> Stay informed about: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? |
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:00 am
Post subject: Re: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 26 May 2006 20:20:23 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab.RemoveThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On 26 May 2006 18:54:26 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab.RemoveThis@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >David Johnston wrote:
>> >> On 26 May 2006 13:06:50 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab.RemoveThis@yahoo.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >> 3. Value of advantages generally better balanced so you don't need to
>> >> >> piss away major points on something with little or no game effect like
>> >> >> Longevity to fit your concept.
>> >> >
>> >> >Most broken point costs can be directly linked to overpriced advantgaes
>> >> >from Supers.
>> >>
>> >> Which were also used in Aliens and consequently contaminated large
>> >> parts of the science fiction genre.
>> >
>> >The costs were also used in Fantasy Folk and contaminated large parts
>> >of the fantasy genre
>>
>> And now that's fixed.
>
>And could have been done without sucha radical revision to the rest of
>the system.
By which I assume you mean psionics since the other modifications
happened for other reasons. But if they didn't revise psionics they'd
still be stuck with it falling apart as soon as you reach a high power
level.
>
>> >> >> 6. They got rid of the inane IQ bonus to firearms skill
>> >> >
>> >> >Was a bonus that made sense.
>> >>
>> >> Because you need to be so much smarter to use a gun than to use a bow,
>> >> or a sword?
>> >
>> >No. Because firing a gun is really easier than an Easy skill
>>
>> Even if that was true in reality, (and it isn't, because an amazing
>> number of bullets miss in the typical gun fight) it's not a good idea
>> in the gaming sense.
>
>There are a lot of misses in a gun fight because the shooter is usually
>greatly concerned about not getting hit, which reduces his
>effectiveness significantly.
Swordsmen also need to worry about getting hit. Nor is the
intelligence modifier a good way to deal with the issue. A
circumstantial modifier is.
>
>> >> You
>> >> could take out anyone except a similar psionic guaranteed if you could
>> >> just get in range and psionics had no fatigue costs and no range
>> >> penalties.
>> >
>> >I never had any problems with this.
>>
>> Because you handwaved most of the limitations of magic away.
>
>I did?
Yup. You said as much the last time. You never varied the mana level
and you modified the range modifiers to be much more lenient. >> Stay informed about: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? |
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 7:54 am
Post subject: Re: 4e Psionics [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 27 May 2006 00:24:34 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> > Standard 4e psionics also lacks the skill vs power of 3e.
>>
>> _BASIC_ lack it. It's in POWERS, which is where it belongs.
>
>Which makes means 4e psionics is incomplete without spending another
>$40.
That is of course no different from 3rd edition psionics except that
the price of books has gone up. >> Stay informed about: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? |
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 8:49 am
Post subject: Re: 4e Psionics [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 27 May 2006 01:08:19 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On 27 May 2006 00:24:34 -0700, "copeab@yahoo.com" <copeab RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> > Standard 4e psionics also lacks the skill vs power of 3e.
>> >>
>> >> _BASIC_ lack it. It's in POWERS, which is where it belongs.
>> >
>> >Which makes means 4e psionics is incomplete without spending another
>> >$40.
>>
>> That is of course no different from 3rd edition psionics except that
>> the price of books has gone up.
>
>The psionic rules in 3e Basic weren't broken
The psionic rules in 4e Basic aren't broken. >> Stay informed about: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? |
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Since: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 1280
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 9:18 am
Post subject: Re: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 26 May 2006 19:31:13 GMT, David Johnston <rgorman.RemoveThis@block.net>
wrote:
>2. Going to "all hardcover" is an unnecessary expense, particularly
>since the damn things fall apart just like the soft covers.
Last time I checked the price per page is actually lower than that of
the old softcovers.
--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn.RemoveThis@paradise.net.nz> >> Stay informed about: Cybernetic gear in Gurps? |
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