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Creation myth - Critique wanted

 
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Marcel Beaudoin

External


Since: Jan 06, 2006
Posts: 289



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:03 pm
Post subject: Creation myth - Critique wanted
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>dnd (more info?)

So I finally got around to writing up the origins of Emisof, what I am
calling my campaign world.

Before I post it, let me mention that I gladly accept comments and
criticism, both positive and negative. WIthout further ado:



In the beginning, there was the seed, and only the seed.

After a time, the seed tried to grow, however as it was the only thing
there was, it had no room. So, out of a need for room, the void was born.
The seed, sensing it had room to grow, tried to grow, and found nothing
in which to grow. Thus, a need once again was discovered, and earth was
born. The seed grew, and found the earth, and was happy. The seed grew,
as seeds are wont to do. The seed then found it needed room for its
leaves to spread. Once again, a need was discovered, and air was born.
The air gave the seed room to grow, and room to stretch out. However, the
seed was confused, and did not know which direction to grow, for all was
dark. A need once again was expressed, and light was born. The light gave
the seed a direction to grow, and the seedling grew happily for a while.
The seedling grew, and then found itself tired, and needing to rest. The
continual light however, provided it with no opportunity to rest. Thus, a
need was once again felt, and darkness was born. The darkness allowed the
seed to rest until it was once again ready to grow. However, the seed
soon found that all this growing was hard work, and it experienced a
sensation new to it. It was thirsty, and needed to drink. Thus need once
again provided, and water was born. Water brought with it the quenching
of the thirst. The seedling grew into a tree and, as trees were wont to
do, dropped seeds. These seeds themselves grew and dropped seeds.

After some time had passed, the Seed, which was now a towering tree, felt
crowded. There were many trees taking all the room, leaving no room for
new trees to grow. The tree pondered this. Many of the larger trees were
now tired, and needed a much longer rest than the brief cycle of darkness
provided. Thus the seed thought. This was difficult, as it was not a need
that the Tree itself felt. After an age of thinking, a need was born, and
fire arrived. The fire burned down some of the trees, allowing the larger
trees a long rest, and providing the smaller trees space to grow.

After several more ages, the Tree itself grew tired, and needed to rest,
and so went to sleep. After only a short while, the tree found itself
being woken up, as, without the need of the Tree for guidance, fire was
out of control. Once again, need arose. Thus, a seed was formed, larger
than others before it, and fell to the ground. It rapidly grew and split
in a burst of fire. Thus was born Feukor, god of fire. The Tree,
satisfied, went to sleep once more. However, it was once again woken
before it was completely rested, this time, by Feukor.

"As you have made me out of need, I ask that you also create others. For
try as I might, I cannot move the water, air or earth from places where
they no longer are needed to places where they are required."

The tree thought, and a need was once again detected. The first to split
did so in a splash of water, signaling the birth of Sharha, goddess of
water. The next split into a clod of dirt, which then fell apart to
reveal Angkor, god of the earth. The last to split did so in with a gust
of wind. Thus was Vonlam, goddess of the air born.

Comments/Criticisms/suggestions??

--
Marcel

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Justisaur

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Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 191



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Creation myth - Critique wanted [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Feb 26, 10:03 am, Marcel Beaudoin <marcel.beaud... RemoveThis @gmail.com>
wrote:

> Comments/Criticisms/suggestions??
>

Interesting. It would seem to be a good myth for druids...

- Justisaur

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m0rdant

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Since: Feb 26, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Creation myth - Critique wanted [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

You could play with the idea that "something" planted the seed. This could
give you a "universal truth" for many of the religious branches - ie
everyone believes in the SEED, but not everyone believes in or has the same
image of the seedER. You need a number of different myths that revolve
around a truth that perhaps no one but the DM really knows. They have to
have some cross-over and some shared truths because the powers/spells
granted prove each group has an idea of the truth. And of course you've
already laid some of the ideas for elemental branches and worship.

Just some thoughts on first read and reaction.

I ran a campain a long time back set in a kingdom whose main religion
preached racial prurity, yet one of the PC clerics was secretly a half-elf.
Made for some good role-playing and an unexpected story arc with a fallen
paladin's return to grace and the party trying to overthrow the
eclesiastical status-quo...anyway....I digress.


"Marcel Beaudoin" <marcel.beaudoin RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A5084CD3357marcelbeaudoingmailc@130.133.1.4...
> So I finally got around to writing up the origins of Emisof, what I am
> calling my campaign world.
>
> Before I post it, let me mention that I gladly accept comments and
> criticism, both positive and negative. WIthout further ado:
>
>
>
> In the beginning, there was the seed, and only the seed.
>
> After a time, the seed tried to grow, however as it was the only thing
> there was, it had no room. So, out of a need for room, the void was born.
> The seed, sensing it had room to grow, tried to grow, and found nothing
> in which to grow. Thus, a need once again was discovered, and earth was
> born. The seed grew, and found the earth, and was happy. The seed grew,
> as seeds are wont to do. The seed then found it needed room for its
> leaves to spread. Once again, a need was discovered, and air was born.
> The air gave the seed room to grow, and room to stretch out. However, the
> seed was confused, and did not know which direction to grow, for all was
> dark. A need once again was expressed, and light was born. The light gave
> the seed a direction to grow, and the seedling grew happily for a while.
> The seedling grew, and then found itself tired, and needing to rest. The
> continual light however, provided it with no opportunity to rest. Thus, a
> need was once again felt, and darkness was born. The darkness allowed the
> seed to rest until it was once again ready to grow. However, the seed
> soon found that all this growing was hard work, and it experienced a
> sensation new to it. It was thirsty, and needed to drink. Thus need once
> again provided, and water was born. Water brought with it the quenching
> of the thirst. The seedling grew into a tree and, as trees were wont to
> do, dropped seeds. These seeds themselves grew and dropped seeds.
>
> After some time had passed, the Seed, which was now a towering tree, felt
> crowded. There were many trees taking all the room, leaving no room for
> new trees to grow. The tree pondered this. Many of the larger trees were
> now tired, and needed a much longer rest than the brief cycle of darkness
> provided. Thus the seed thought. This was difficult, as it was not a need
> that the Tree itself felt. After an age of thinking, a need was born, and
> fire arrived. The fire burned down some of the trees, allowing the larger
> trees a long rest, and providing the smaller trees space to grow.
>
> After several more ages, the Tree itself grew tired, and needed to rest,
> and so went to sleep. After only a short while, the tree found itself
> being woken up, as, without the need of the Tree for guidance, fire was
> out of control. Once again, need arose. Thus, a seed was formed, larger
> than others before it, and fell to the ground. It rapidly grew and split
> in a burst of fire. Thus was born Feukor, god of fire. The Tree,
> satisfied, went to sleep once more. However, it was once again woken
> before it was completely rested, this time, by Feukor.
>
> "As you have made me out of need, I ask that you also create others. For
> try as I might, I cannot move the water, air or earth from places where
> they no longer are needed to places where they are required."
>
> The tree thought, and a need was once again detected. The first to split
> did so in a splash of water, signaling the birth of Sharha, goddess of
> water. The next split into a clod of dirt, which then fell apart to
> reveal Angkor, god of the earth. The last to split did so in with a gust
> of wind. Thus was Vonlam, goddess of the air born.
>
> Comments/Criticisms/suggestions??
>
> --
> Marcel
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skirnir

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Since: Feb 26, 2008
Posts: 2



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Creation myth - Critique wanted [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Feb 26, 10:03 am, Marcel Beaudoin <marcel.beaud... DeleteThis @gmail.com>
wrote:
> So I finally got around to writing up the origins of Emisof, what I am
> calling my campaign world.
>
> Before I post it, let me mention that I gladly accept comments and
> criticism, both positive and negative. WIthout further ado:
>
> In the beginning, there was the seed, and only the seed.
>

According to the elves, ylem is the first element and gives rise
to the four elements. According to the dwarves, the four
elements were forged from metal. Philosophers say it all
started with akasha. They're wrong, it's all phlogiston.
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Marcel Beaudoin

External


Since: Jan 06, 2006
Posts: 289



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Creation myth - Critique wanted [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

in rec.games.frp.dnd, Justisaur <justisaur RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in
news:71a64d44-80ae-432e-b8c4-41a77a4c9c91@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

> On Feb 26, 10:03 am, Marcel Beaudoin <marcel.beaud... RemoveThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Comments/Criticisms/suggestions??
>>
>
> Interesting. It would seem to be a good myth for druids...

I am having an internal debate having a variety of creation myths. The one
in my OP for elves and other nature-ey type beings. Have another one based
around rocks or a forge for mountain-ey type beings. That being said, I am
not at all sure how I would start a creation myth that way.


--
Marcel
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Brent

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Since: May 03, 2007
Posts: 37



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Creation myth - Critique wanted [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Feb 27, 5:03 am, Marcel Beaudoin <marcel.beaud....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I finally got around to writing up the origins of Emisof, what I am
> calling my campaign world.
>
> Before I post it, let me mention that I gladly accept comments and
> criticism, both positive and negative. WIthout further ado:
>
> In the beginning, there was the seed, and only the seed.
>
> After a time, the seed tried to grow, however as it was the only thing
> there was, it had no room. So, out of a need for room, the void was born.
> The seed, sensing it had room to grow, tried to grow, and found nothing
> in which to grow. Thus, a need once again was discovered, and earth was
> born. The seed grew, and found the earth, and was happy. The seed grew,
> as seeds are wont to do. The seed then found it needed room for its
> leaves to spread. Once again, a need was discovered, and air was born.
> The air gave the seed room to grow, and room to stretch out. However, the
> seed was confused, and did not know which direction to grow, for all was
> dark. A need once again was expressed, and light was born. The light gave
> the seed a direction to grow, and the seedling grew happily for a while.
> The seedling grew, and then found itself tired, and needing to rest. The
> continual light however, provided it with no opportunity to rest. Thus, a
> need was once again felt, and darkness was born. The darkness allowed the
> seed to rest until it was once again ready to grow. However, the seed
> soon found that all this growing was hard work, and it experienced a
> sensation new to it. It was thirsty, and needed to drink. Thus need once
> again provided, and water was born. Water brought with it the quenching
> of the thirst. The seedling grew into a tree and, as trees were wont to
> do, dropped seeds. These seeds themselves grew and dropped seeds.
>
> After some time had passed, the Seed, which was now a towering tree, felt
> crowded. There were many trees taking all the room, leaving no room for
> new trees to grow. The tree pondered this. Many of the larger trees were
> now tired, and needed a much longer rest than the brief cycle of darkness
> provided. Thus the seed thought. This was difficult, as it was not a need
> that the Tree itself felt. After an age of thinking, a need was born, and
> fire arrived. The fire burned down some of the trees, allowing the larger
> trees a long rest, and providing the smaller trees space to grow.
>
> After several more ages, the Tree itself grew tired, and needed to rest,
> and so went to sleep. After only a short while, the tree found itself
> being woken up, as, without the need of the Tree for guidance, fire was
> out of control. Once again, need arose. Thus, a seed was formed, larger
> than others before it, and fell to the ground. It rapidly grew and split
> in a burst of fire. Thus was born Feukor, god of fire. The Tree,
> satisfied, went to sleep once more. However, it was once again woken
> before it was completely rested, this time, by Feukor.
>
> "As you have made me out of need, I ask that you also create others. For
> try as I might, I cannot move the water, air or earth from places where
> they no longer are needed to places where they are required."
>
> The tree thought, and a need was once again detected. The first to split
> did so in a splash of water, signaling the birth of Sharha, goddess of
> water. The next split into a clod of dirt, which then fell apart to
> reveal Angkor, god of the earth. The last to split did so in with a gust
> of wind. Thus was Vonlam, goddess of the air born.
>
> Comments/Criticisms/suggestions??
>
> --
> Marcel

Firstly, the name 'Emisof' lacks what the natives of PNG would call
'sing sing'. It just doesn't have a good ring to it, and looks like a
gygaxian reversal. Secondly, classical elements are passe and
overdone. Finally, whilst the seed notion I suppose is good enough in
theory, you have executed it poorly in practicality. The idea of a
cosmic seed works well as a metaphor, once you start trying to sew the
seams of this metaphor to actual reality things get stupid. That being
said, even in the context of the metaphor, I don't like the way all of
reality was simply 'willed' into existence by the needs of this seed.
It seems creatively lazy to me. The principle can work, like how order
simply arose in reaction to the intolerable infinite chaos in the
Greyhawk cosmic genesis. The idea meshes well, is completely abstract,
and even still somewhat explicable (order can rise out of patterns in
chaos). When you tell me that the void was created to meet the seeds
need for space, I say "Why?". Not to mention that the seed isn't
really a beginning, as one didn't address where the seed itself arose
from or why it always was.

If I were you, and I often find myself in your shoes, I would scrap
80%, keep the good stuff and start again. It is how all the best ideas
a made. You get to the finished product, look it over, see what you
like, torch the lot and start anew keepin only what you like and
trying new things for what you didn't. Keep doing this until you have
something you like in it's entirety. However, you could still keep the
above as a variant and inaccurate folk tale of the genesis; as
justisaur suggested, give it to the druids and let them espouse the
fallacious notion of your beta-genesis. Almost right, but not quite on
the mark- you would expect most traditions to have something so far
off and esoteric wrong in multiple ways.
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Jasin Zujovic

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Since: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 1923



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:55 am
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Brent wrote:
> When you tell me that the void was created to meet the seeds
> need for space, I say "Why?".

Isn't one of the purposes of a creation myth to put an end to recursive
whys with an arbitrary because?


--
Jasin
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Jasin Zujovic

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Since: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 1923



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:31 am
Post subject: Re: Creation myth - Critique wanted [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
>>> Comments/Criticisms/suggestions??
>>>
>> Interesting. It would seem to be a good myth for druids...
>
> I am having an internal debate having a variety of creation myths. The one
> in my OP for elves and other nature-ey type beings.

It's certainly appropriately nature-y in tone.

> Have another one based
> around rocks or a forge for mountain-ey type beings. That being said, I am
> not at all sure how I would start a creation myth that way.

I think the thing to keep in mind when designing creation myths is that
(much like RPG) they don't need to make sense as long as they're
reasonably compelling.

You could just start with the Forge that was ever there, cold and quiet
until the First Smith found it and started making things. Or with the
First Smith forging first himself, and then the world. Or any number of
other things that don't really make sense but have some poetic resonance.


--
Jasin
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Brent

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Since: May 03, 2007
Posts: 37



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:03 pm
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On Feb 29, 10:55 am, Jasin Zujovic <jzujo....RemoveThis@inet.hr> wrote:
> Brent wrote:
> > When you tell me that the void was created to meet the seeds
> > need for space, I say "Why?".
>
> Isn't one of the purposes of a creation myth to put an end to recursive
> whys with an arbitrary because?
>
> --
> Jasin

In the real world, yes. Because in the real worlds, creation myths are
just that; 'myths'. However in fantasy this is not so. Gods, magic,
and mythology are all real- and thus the tales of their exploits have
to make sense (like real things do). In fantasy, magic is the new
science; it binds together and explains the world through it's edicts.
As such, the same level of reliability and accountability is expected
of it, lest the whole fantasy world degrade into actual 'myth' of
obvious fabrication.
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