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External
Since: Mar 25, 2005
Posts: 615
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:56 am
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>angband (more info?)
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On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:38:01 +0000 (UTC), Kenneth 'Bessarion' Boyd
<zaimoni.TakeThisOut@zaimoni.com> wrote:
>On 2007-11-15 13:04:22, Antoine <antoine.from.rgrd.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Leather Cuirass
>
>Please remember to reduce the AC for cuirasses compared to what they're
>replacing. Unlike proper armors, cuirasses don't have arm/leg protection at
>all.
A cuirass is proper armor. Armor that covers the whole body is a rarity
in history. Even in the full plate era, only the professionals were so
protected. Levied infantry men were lucky to have leather jackets with a
few hard plates sewn in.
>> Cuirass
>
>Easier to visualize the AC reduction here; think conquistadors vs. plate-armored
>knights.
>
>> Knightly Plate Armour (was Mithril)
>
>Tolkein is a formative influence on D&D. Mithril is a big import.
*Tolkien* was a very minor influence on D&D. The success of LOTR may
have been a significant influence on the success of D&D, however.
Mithril, however, should stay.
>> Pair of Shoes (was Light Leather Boots)
>
>Please reduce AC. [I'm not clear whether these should be AC1 or AC0.] Also, I
>can't think of a good backstory excuse for this substitution.
There is no need to reduce the AC when doing replacement (additions may
need adjustment to fit a reasonable progression, but the AC values
themselves are arbitrary and so long as the progression remains
sensible, exact values may be changed without difficulty).
--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry.TakeThisOut@inreach.com
Holy Avenger should be a Paladin title,
not an ego item. |
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Since: Mar 25, 2005
Posts: 615
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:56 am
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 04:04:22 -0800 (PST), Antoine
<antoine.from.rgrd RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi variant designers,
[snip]
>I have just gone through the object file and changed some names. Here
>are some of the new ones:
[snip]
>Any other designers have done this? Good ideas...?
Yes, changing the object set is pretty common in variants, although the
degree to which it is done varies greatly. I finally got rid of slime
mold in Gumband.
--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry RemoveThis @inreach.com
Holy Avenger should be a Paladin title,
not an ego item. |
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External
Since: Nov 20, 2007
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Nov 16, 12:54 am, Timo Pietilä <timo.piet....TakeThisOut@helsinki.fi> wrote:
> Adamantine plte armour is very heavy, so changing it to royal and
> imagining just what you imagined is approriate. Gold is heavy. Really
> heavy. But also quite soft, so in order to support it it has to have
> steel too. It can't rust, it is made for royal person. Because all of
> those monsters it should also protect well.
Try stopping a weapon with gold armor, and see how "well" it protects.
I personally see nothing wrong with naming the armor after what it is
made from/which nation forged it. >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Since: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 429
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:31 am
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Seamus wrote:
> On Nov 16, 12:54 am, Timo Pietilä <timo.piet... RemoveThis @helsinki.fi> wrote:
>> Adamantine plte armour is very heavy, so changing it to royal and
>> imagining just what you imagined is approriate. Gold is heavy. Really
>> heavy. But also quite soft, so in order to support it it has to have
>> steel too. It can't rust, it is made for royal person. Because all of
>> those monsters it should also protect well.
>
> Try stopping a weapon with gold armor, and see how "well" it protects.
That is why it should have steel too. That and the fact that pure gold
would not even stay in shape very long.
> I personally see nothing wrong with naming the armor after what it is
> made from/which nation forged it.
If it is made from multiple different materials then naming it based on
that wont work. Which nation would be better. Though "Numenorian plate
armor (elvenkind)" isn't logical.
Timo Pietilä >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Since: Nov 20, 2007
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:48 am
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Nov 21, 2:31 am, Timo Pietilä <timo.piet....DeleteThis@helsinki.fi> wrote:
> Seamus wrote:
> > On Nov 16, 12:54 am, Timo Pietilä <timo.piet....DeleteThis@helsinki.fi> wrote:
> >> Adamantine plte armour is very heavy, so changing it to royal and
> >> imagining just what you imagined is approriate. Gold is heavy. Really
> >> heavy. But also quite soft, so in order to support it it has to have
> >> steel too. It can't rust, it is made for royal person. Because all of
> >> those monsters it should also protect well.
>
> > Try stopping a weapon with gold armor, and see how "well" it protects.
>
> That is why it should have steel too. That and the fact that pure gold
> would not even stay in shape very long.
I see your point, but it's still decorative. The gold would be more of
a detriment.
> > I personally see nothing wrong with naming the armor after what it is
> > made from/which nation forged it.
>
> If it is made from multiple different materials then naming it based on
> that wont work. Which nation would be better. Though "Numenorian plate
> armor (elvenkind)" isn't logical.
Then, remove the (elvenkind) flag. >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Since: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 429
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Seamus wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2:31 am, Timo Pietilä <timo.piet....RemoveThis@helsinki.fi> wrote:
>> Seamus wrote:
>>> I personally see nothing wrong with naming the armor after what it is
>>> made from/which nation forged it.
>> If it is made from multiple different materials then naming it based on
>> that wont work. Which nation would be better. Though "Numenorian plate
>> armor (elvenkind)" isn't logical.
>
> Then, remove the (elvenkind) flag.
That would be worse than renaming Adamantium to Numenorian. You need
replacement, not removal for that. Suggestions?
Timo Pietilä >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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External
Since: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:56 am
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 21 Nov, 13:27, Timo Pietilä <timo.piet....DeleteThis@helsinki.fi> wrote:
> Seamus wrote:
> > On Nov 21, 2:31 am, Timo Pietilä <timo.piet....DeleteThis@helsinki.fi> wrote:
> >> Seamus wrote:
> >>> I personally see nothing wrong with naming the armor after what it is
> >>> made from/which nation forged it.
> >> If it is made from multiple different materials then naming it based on
> >> that wont work. Which nation would be better. Though "Numenorian plate
> >> armor (elvenkind)" isn't logical.
>
> > Then, remove the (elvenkind) flag.
>
> That would be worse than renaming Adamantium to Numenorian. You need
> replacement, not removal for that. Suggestions?
>
> Timo Pietilä
Perhaps we could think of a new name for the steel/gold alloy proposed
above (unless the material scientists out there can tell us of a pre-
existing name for such an alloy). A brief Wiki search throws up "Blue-
White Gold" or "Blue Gold" as an alloy of 25% iron with 75% gold, but
most people seem to associate the second term with water, especially
in regions where it is scarce (we've got plenty in Wales).
My own preference would be to keep Adamant-ium/ine/ite - if we can
agree on an ending! (There are historic reasons to support all 3
suffixes, as well as the bare stem, but as the game currently uses -
ite I would stick with that).
Dave >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Since: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:34 am
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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(I found this in my Drafts folder. You might still find it interesting
or useful.)
Antoine wrote:
> Hi variant designers,
>
> I always felt some of the V object types were named a bit lamely and
> with too much D&D influence - like Metal Lamellar Armour, Lucerne
> Hammer, Large Wooden Shield.
>
> I have just gone through the object file and changed some names. Here
> are some of the new ones:
>
<snip>
I was working on revising the V weapons list for a while. I hunted down
Moria and 2.4.frog-knows for some ideas. I came up with a list which
felt V-like still but had a bit more variability and "flavour".
Stiletto (4d1)
Shamshir (5d2)
Scythe (by itself)
Javelin (1d5)
Longspear (1d14)
Hatchet (3d1)
Hafted axe (3d4)
Labrys (double-headed axe) (7d2)
Flanged Mace (4d5)
Maul (4d7)
Great Hammer (3d10)
Two-Handed Great Flail (3d6)
Cat-o'-Nine-Tails almost made it too, but it's obviously not something
one would use in combat.
I noticed some other odd things too, like that there are seven different
kind of diggers in V, which is 14% of the number of weapons in the game.
--
Andrew Sidwell
http://rephial.org/ >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Since: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:38 am
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 1, 11:34 pm, Andrew Sidwell <takka....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> I noticed some other odd things too, like that there are seven different
> kind of diggers in V, which is 14% of the number of weapons in the game.
These should be reduced for sure, so that diggers won't be as large a
percentage of the weapons found. >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Since: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 429
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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scuzwalla RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 1, 11:34 pm, Andrew Sidwell <takka... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> I noticed some other odd things too, like that there are seven different
>> kind of diggers in V, which is 14% of the number of weapons in the game.
>
> These should be reduced for sure, so that diggers won't be as large a
> percentage of the weapons found.
Well, diggers don't give penalty to priests, and digger of earthquakes
can be very good for weak mage too (max 6 to STR). Mattock of digging
(acid brand) can be very good weapon too.
Timo Pietilä >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Since: May 30, 2004
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In a distant and second-hand set of dimensions, the words of
Andrew Sidwell filtered slowly through the cosmos...
> I was working on revising the V weapons list for a while. I hunted down
> Moria and 2.4.frog-knows for some ideas. I came up with a list which
> felt V-like still but had a bit more variability and "flavour".
>
> Stiletto (4d1)
Isn't that a kind of ladies' dance shoe? :-/
I suppose it doesn't have D&D influence in it, all the same...
> I noticed some other odd things too, like that there are seven different
> kind of diggers in V, which is 14% of the number of weapons in the game.
>
Seven?
Having just had a look in the edit files, it's obvious there's been a
lot of changes in recent times...
--
__<^>__ I thought DFS was a brand of sofa until I discovered the Beeb.
/ _¬ ¬_ \ Posted by Martin Bazley from British technology.
( ( |_| ) )
\_> <_/ ...Einstein rules relatively OK >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Since: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Martin Bazley wrote:
> In a distant and second-hand set of dimensions, the words of
> Andrew Sidwell filtered slowly through the cosmos...
>> I was working on revising the V weapons list for a while. I hunted down
>> Moria and 2.4.frog-knows for some ideas. I came up with a list which
>> felt V-like still but had a bit more variability and "flavour".
>>
>> Stiletto (4d1)
>
> Isn't that a kind of ladies' dance shoe? :-/
>
> I suppose it doesn't have D&D influence in it, all the same...
It is a kind of dagger. The shoe was named after the dagger.
--
Andrew Sidwell
http://rephial.org/ >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Since: Mar 25, 2005
Posts: 615
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:52 am
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 04:34:29 +0000, Andrew Sidwell <takkaria.RemoveThis@gmail.com>
wrote:
>I was working on revising the V weapons list for a while. I hunted down
>Moria and 2.4.frog-knows for some ideas. I came up with a list which
>felt V-like still but had a bit more variability and "flavour".
I'm not really convinced that a longer weapons list is what Angband
needs.
--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry.RemoveThis@inreach.com
Holy Avenger should be a Paladin title,
not an ego item. >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Since: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 429
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Andrew Sidwell wrote:
> I was working on revising the V weapons list for a while. I hunted down
> Moria and 2.4.frog-knows for some ideas. I came up with a list which
> felt V-like still but had a bit more variability and "flavour".
>
> Stiletto (4d1)
> Shamshir (5d2)
> Javelin (1d5)
> Hatchet (3d1)
I have a problem with these "number of dices is greater than sides of dices.
If you compare average damage of examples above you get:
Shamshir: 7.5
Stiletto: 4
Hatchet: 3
Javelin: 3
Stiletto should not make much more damage than dagger. Actually I think
it should make less damage than a dagger.
> Labrys (double-headed axe) (7d2)
This is average 10.5. IE it beats Longspear (1d14) which is average 8.
Even Two-handed Great Flail (3d6) is only 10.5. Maybe it should, but
that makes very close to average damage every time.
Also there are already too many weapons in the game compared to other
equipment. So these need to replace something in order to make any
sense. Which ones?
Timo Pietilä >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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Posts: 92
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Cooler weapon and armor names [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 2008-02-04 16:56:50, Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila.TakeThisOut@helsinki.fi> wrote:
> Also there are already too many weapons in the game compared to other
> equipment. So these need to replace something in order to make any
> sense. Which ones?
This is a good point, and needs to be taken into account; if you add one object,
everything else becomes less common. You could balance by making other weapon
types less common, but that would make artifact weapons of those types rarer...
Also, not wanting to be the theme police or anything, but Tolkien mentioned
probably 10-15 weapon types - including mattocks.
Nick.
--
"You are judging by social rules, and finding crime. I am considering an
elemental struggle, and finding no crime, just grim, primeval danger." - The
Midwich Cuckoos, John Wyndham >> Stay informed about: Cooler weapon and armor names |
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