Combat Mission - heading for WWII again ?

In article <25e1b39a-31b0-4db4-8294-17e697244d03
@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, eddysterckx.RemoveThis@hotmail.com says...

> The (expensive) lesson they learned is that you can't force people to
> like what you want them to like.

Lemme get this straight, though.

Essentially, they're planning to take CMBB, divide it up into little
penny packets I'll have to buy for $50 a pop, tart it up with the
"improved" graphics in CM:SF, ruin the interface like they ruined CM:SF,
and wrap it in their Nazi DRM? Oh, and not fix pathfinding or and AI
issues.

Is that substantially it?

I'm not sure I feel my money leaping from my wallet here.

--
Giftzwerg
***
"More than 10,000 jet into Bali for global warming conference."
- Associated Press
"You just can't make this stuff up."
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 >> Stay informed about: Combat Mission - heading for WWII again ? 

<eddysterckx RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:25e1b39a-31b0-4db4-8294-17e697244d03@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> In the past the guys at Battlefront made it painfully clear that they
> were sick and tired of doing WWII and that they wanted to expand the
> current CM:SF engine with additional modules for the Marines, British
> and other Euros and Canadians. CM2-WWII was only a maybe project in
> the distant future.
>
> But the lukewarm reception CM:SF got - part of which has to do with
> the (boring) a-symmetrical setting, the deadly lethality of modern
> warfare and the general preference of their customer base for WWII has
> made them backpeddal fast.
>
> As it's well underway it's only logical that the Marines module will
> see the light of day first but after that it's back to WWII.
>
> http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t...3444;p=
>

Lookie at how the fanboys drool in that thread: "Gee Battlefront, you arse
raped me so well before I absolutely can't wait for you to do it again!"

Would also echo the sentiments of the person who pointed out why in the hell
would you pay for a sliver of a game over what was included in the original
CM series? Battlefront is now just trying to milk its fanbase for all it has
left in it, it truly is a dead company (at least in my eyes)......

Last two games I purchased from them were CMAK and T-72 BoF, since then they
have been sliding into obscurity, the nail was the shite POS they tried to
pass off as being "perfect"........

Hannu
 >> Stay informed about: Combat Mission - heading for WWII again ? 

On 17 dec, 16:03, "Hannu Harvanpaah"
> Would also echo the sentiments of the person who pointed out why in the hell
> would you pay for a sliver of a game over what was included in the original
> CM series? Battlefront is now just trying to milk its fanbase for all it has
> left in it, it truly is a dead company (at least in my eyes)......

I look at it from a slightly different pov.

For me to enjoy a tactical warfare game, it better be 3D - as in Tin
Soldiers, MadMinute's Take Command series and the upcoming HistWar :
Les Grognards.

For WWII this leaves you with 3 options

1)Theatre of War - a PoS

2)The original CM series - great, but aging and not further supported
- CMBB is reported to be problematic on some Vista systems so it's
only a matter of time before I'm out of luck there

3)The Panzer Command series - the current heir to the original CM
series - continued development, but also modular in design and the
game the current CM aficionados are turning and will turn to if
Battlefront kept to their original plan of "no more WWII"

So, it looks to me as if Battlefront has no choice but to go WWII
again - asap - one can only imagine who would still be King of the
Hill if they put all those resource they put into CM:SF into a
enhancing the graphics and TacAI of the original CM ...

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx
 >> Stay informed about: Combat Mission - heading for WWII again ? 

With CMSF, the first game using the CM x 2 engine, battlefront went RT
to attract the RTS and FPS segments. It went to 2008 Syria to attract
a military contract (which market may also prefer RT over WeGo). So
far neither of those initiatives have paid off.

Battlefront said years ago that it would do World War II again,
starting with the U.S. vs. the Germans somewhere in France--1944. Now
we hear that perhaps the third front to be covered will the Eastern
Front in 1944. Makes since in part because they will already have
almost all the German forces in the can.

Of course the problem for Battlefront will be to win back all the CM x
1 customers they have pissed on and off. Even with a charm
transplant, they are unlikely to have success, even with WW II games,
without working WeGo and PBEM.

The scope of the planned games also presents some problems. They need
to provide more in each game than they have said will be there. For
example the first release should provide the entire 1944 campaign in
France--including all forces. The Eastern Front initial offering
should should include everything in 1944. They can go smaller than
they did with the CM x 1 games, but not nearly as small as they plan
to go.

To date it appears that the Battlefront development and marketing
teams have spent far too much time listening to the Space Lobsters of
Doom.
 >> Stay informed about: Combat Mission - heading for WWII again ? 

<eddysterckx.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8d80e4c-dc5b-4eba-8929-c810aea38bf8@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> I look at it from a slightly different pov.
>
> For me to enjoy a tactical warfare game, it better be 3D - as in Tin
> Soldiers, MadMinute's Take Command series and the upcoming HistWar :
> Les Grognards.

3D is not even remotely important for my enjoyment of a tactical game. It's
probably the very least of my concerns.

>
> For WWII this leaves you with 3 options
>
> 2)The original CM series - great, but aging and not further supported
> - CMBB is reported to be problematic on some Vista systems so it's
> only a matter of time before I'm out of luck there

I was under the impression that Vista allowed emulation pretty successfully?
I'd be very curious to hear about whether or not the previous three combat
mission games run on Vista.

>
> So, it looks to me as if Battlefront has no choice but to go WWII
> again - asap - one can only imagine who would still be King of the
> Hill if they put all those resource they put into CM:SF into a
> enhancing the graphics and TacAI of the original CM .

I don't know about that. I think the howls of outrage would have been even
louder if the theoretical CM:BO 2 was as buggy and un-tested as CM:SF has
been.

The original Combat Mission engine is pretty much a dead-end. And
Battlefront needed to come-up with something entirely new. Unfortunately
they failed so far as I'm concerned.


--
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
 >> Stay informed about: Combat Mission - heading for WWII again ? 

> The (expensive) lesson they learned is that you can't force people to
> like what you want them to like.

Now they have to learn the seconnd one: it is difficult, after covering the
whole Eastern Front in a game, to convince people that buying "Action at
Petrovgiftzwergvosky '44" for the same price is "oberk3wl"
 >> Stay informed about: Combat Mission - heading for WWII again ? 

<eddysterckx.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:25e1b39a-31b0-4db4-8294-17e697244d03@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> In the past the guys at Battlefront made it painfully clear that they
> were sick and tired of doing WWII and that they wanted to expand the
> current CM:SF engine with additional modules for the Marines, British
> and other Euros and Canadians. CM2-WWII was only a maybe project in
> the distant future.
>
> But the lukewarm reception CM:SF got - part of which has to do with
> the (boring) a-symmetrical setting, the deadly lethality of modern
> warfare and the general preference of their customer base for WWII has
> made them backpeddal fast.
>
> As it's well underway it's only logical that the Marines module will
> see the light of day first but after that it's back to WWII.
>
> http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t...3444;p=
>
> "Sorry, no timeline for anything in terms of dates, only in terms of
> order.
> But I can say for sure we are going back to the Eastern Front as soon
> as we can.
> Like all our games now, it will initially focus on a fairly small
> slice of that epic war
> and then Modules will add more options for people.
> Currently we're thinking 1944 because that has the most "interesting"
> stuff for most people."
>
> The (expensive) lesson they learned is that you can't force people to
> like what you want them to like.

I'd prefer an early WWII module covering Germany's initial expansion. This
hasn't been done before and I think it would be kind of cool testing out
some of the early tank designs against each other.

That said, I don't think they will sell much until they prove that the new
CMII engine has been fixed. They need to ditch the US Marines module and
devote that time to fixing the engine. Once they fix the engine, consumer
confidence will grow and grow whilst they tinker away on the WWII engine.
Best to release the WWII version with the game system already held in high
esteem, rather than spending lots of money on it and trying to flog it to
people that have been burnt by the current version. Lets face it, their main
customer base will be previous customers?

Regards
RobP
 >> Stay informed about: Combat Mission - heading for WWII again ? 

In article <6Cy9j.70560$cJ3.38611@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
robertapollard.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com says...

> > The (expensive) lesson they learned is that you can't force people to
> > like what you want them to like.
>
> I'd prefer an early WWII module covering Germany's initial expansion. This
> hasn't been done before and I think it would be kind of cool testing out
> some of the early tank designs against each other.
>
> That said, I don't think they will sell much until they prove that the new
> CMII engine has been fixed. They need to ditch the US Marines module and
> devote that time to fixing the engine. Once they fix the engine, consumer
> confidence will grow and grow whilst they tinker away on the WWII engine.
> Best to release the WWII version with the game system already held in high
> esteem, rather than spending lots of money on it and trying to flog it to
> people that have been burnt by the current version. Lets face it, their main
> customer base will be previous customers?

It seems to me that the three most important things in a game like
COMBAT MISSION are:

(1) The TacAI.
(2) The TacAI.
(3) The TacAI.

If a player's own units are still regularly doing the hokey-pokey
because the TacAI can't even drive them in a straight line, then no
amount of effort expended on "graphics" or "dynamic lighting" will save
the day.


--
Giftzwerg
***
"More than 10,000 jet into Bali for global warming conference."
- Associated Press
"You just can't make this stuff up."
- Glenn Reynolds
 >> Stay informed about: Combat Mission - heading for WWII again ?