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Next: Everquest II:Kingdom of the Sky vs WOW?
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External
Since: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 640
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 11:48 pm
Post subject: Cluebook Conundrum
Archived from groups: rec>games>computer>ultima>dragons (more info?)
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Okay. So here is the deal.
I have all of the Ultima cluebooks, except for Savage Empire and Martian
Dreams (I got a job and start 22 May, so I can start trying to acquire
those again- but that is a big building with patients).
In yet another of my projects (I have to have a lot of them, otherwise I
might actually -finish- one, and we can't have that now can we) I am
putting them on the 'net. Which you all know, I know.
But now I am needing to make a decision. I have a choice to make. One
possibility is to type in all the verbiage, use maps that are actually
pulled from the games (the ones I have on my site, for the most part),
and scan in only what I absolutely need to. It would not be too much
trouble to even copy the layout with a little work.
The other choice is to pull the books apart and scan them in that way.
I am pretty anal about quality, and I am not all that happy about how
the U3 scanned-in turned out. The U3, U4, and U6 cluebooks (and the
Wasteland one too, for that matter) it is not that big a deal. They are
stapled, so just pull the staples out. I could even put them back
together if I wanted to. Which I probably would not, instead just put
them into sheet protectors. The other ones tho, I would have to break
the backs on, which would make all the pages fall out. There is no
putting them back together.
The downside to this is that with only a couple of exceptions, these are
in really good condition. A couple of others are in pristine condition.
Thoughts?
-thehawk |
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External
Since: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 277
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Quoth Paulon <-@.-.>:
....
>Try to find some not so good copies you can rip apart if just scanning is
>the option you want?
>
>Otherwise I'd recommend doing it the hard way, just scanning the pictures
>you need. It's easier to make a document than to stick it into a webpage
>using the original style and layout.
Agreed. I feel I must add a caveat about potential copyright issues,
though.
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
\ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a30
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________ |
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External
Since: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 640
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Samurai wrote:
> Quoth Paulon <-@.-.>:
> ...
>> Try to find some not so good copies you can rip apart if just scanning is
>> the option you want?
>>
>> Otherwise I'd recommend doing it the hard way, just scanning the pictures
>> you need. It's easier to make a document than to stick it into a webpage
>> using the original style and layout.
>
> Agreed. I feel I must add a caveat about potential copyright issues,
> though.
*nods* Normally I would agree with you. However, I am not (yet anyway)
making them available to everyone, only the select few who tell me they
have an interest.
-thehawk >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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External
Since: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 277
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Quoth Paulon <-@.-.>:
....
>I wish EA would do something nice, like rerelease the games and
>documentation. Fat chance of that though.
Given that the Ultima Collection sold out, and the price Ultimas
continue to fetch on eBay, you'd think EA would have some sense that
there's still a demand. Apparently not, sadly.
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
\ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a30
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________ >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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External
Since: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 605
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 1:46 am
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 11 May 2006 23:48:51 -0700, thehawk
<thehawk5150at.DeleteThis@hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>
>Thoughts?
Just one. Copyright?
--
Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa4
Never compare yourself to the best others can do,
but rather to the best you can do. >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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External
Since: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 640
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 6:03 am
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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erimess wrote:
> On Thu, 11 May 2006 23:48:51 -0700, thehawk
> <thehawk5150at DeleteThis @hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>
>> Thoughts?
>
> Just one. Copyright?
*nods* I have thought about that. But I am also not making them
available to the general public. Just 'passing it around' among a few
friends who request to 'see' it, I am not making money off of it, and I
am not taking any money at all away from the copyright holder by doing so.
I know, not really the way the laws are written and enforced, but I do
believe I am following the -spirit- of the laws with my stance.
Even still, if I am told to stop, of course I will. But I would hate
for these works to disappear from the face of the earth, which is my
real motivation for doing it in the first place.
-thehawk >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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External
Since: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 449
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 13 May 2006 01:46:27 -0400, erimess wrote:
>On Thu, 11 May 2006 23:48:51 -0700, thehawk
><thehawk5150at.RemoveThis@hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Thoughts?
>
>Just one. Copyright?
Be nice to your thought - it's awfully lonely there... 
--
Optician Dragon
-=UDIC=-
"There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it."
Larry Niven >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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External
Since: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 605
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 7:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 13 May 2006 17:13:18 GMT, Optician Dragon
<dragonlensman1 RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 13 May 2006 01:46:27 -0400, erimess wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 11 May 2006 23:48:51 -0700, thehawk
>><thehawk5150at RemoveThis @hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Thoughts?
>>
>>Just one. Copyright?
>Be nice to your thought - it's awfully lonely there...
That's exactly why I have no other ideas -- they all keep getting
lonely and leaving.
--
Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa4
Never compare yourself to the best others can do,
but rather to the best you can do. >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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External
Since: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 605
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 13 May 2006 06:03:56 -0700, thehawk
<thehawk5150at.TakeThisOut@hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>erimess wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 23:48:51 -0700, thehawk
>> <thehawk5150at.TakeThisOut@hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Just one. Copyright?
>
>*nods* I have thought about that. But I am also not making them
>available to the general public. Just 'passing it around' among a few
>friends who request to 'see' it, I am not making money off of it, and I
>am not taking any money at all away from the copyright holder by doing so.
>
>I know, not really the way the laws are written and enforced, but I do
>believe I am following the -spirit- of the laws with my stance.
>
>Even still, if I am told to stop, of course I will. But I would hate
>for these works to disappear from the face of the earth, which is my
>real motivation for doing it in the first place.
Well, legally the copyright counts. I was more wondering *who* put
out these cluebooks, or if they're original stuff from the games that
are no longer available just like everything else. I don't have any
issues downloading & using the manuals and maps people have scanned,
cause EA couldn't be bothered to give them to me when I bought their
collection, despite that they originally came with this stuff. The
"manual" they included is almost useless. (Actually, I think some of
it's on the CD somewhere.)
--
Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa4
Never compare yourself to the best others can do,
but rather to the best you can do. >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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External
Since: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 640
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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erimess wrote:
> On Sat, 13 May 2006 06:03:56 -0700, thehawk
> <thehawk5150at.DeleteThis@hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>
>> erimess wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 23:48:51 -0700, thehawk
>>> <thehawk5150at.DeleteThis@hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>> Just one. Copyright?
>> *nods* I have thought about that. But I am also not making them
>> available to the general public. Just 'passing it around' among a few
>> friends who request to 'see' it, I am not making money off of it, and I
>> am not taking any money at all away from the copyright holder by doing so.
>>
>> I know, not really the way the laws are written and enforced, but I do
>> believe I am following the -spirit- of the laws with my stance.
>>
>> Even still, if I am told to stop, of course I will. But I would hate
>> for these works to disappear from the face of the earth, which is my
>> real motivation for doing it in the first place.
>
> Well, legally the copyright counts. I was more wondering *who* put
> out these cluebooks, or if they're original stuff from the games that
> are no longer available just like everything else. I don't have any
> issues downloading & using the manuals and maps people have scanned,
> cause EA couldn't be bothered to give them to me when I bought their
> collection, despite that they originally came with this stuff. The
> "manual" they included is almost useless. (Actually, I think some of
> it's on the CD somewhere.)
I am just talking about the actual cluebooks, not the Prima guides.
They were all originally put out by Origin as well. 'Balancing the
Scales' and 'Pentology' were both put out by Origin after being bought
by EA (at least, those are the only ones that have the EA name on them).
Except for 'Keys to the Black Gate' and 'Balancing the Scales', I have
not seen any of the others for anything approaching reasonable prices.
Altho now that I just looked to check numbers, there are nowhere near as
many of either of those now as there were ten months ago.
I do have to say tho, that while looking these up, there are several
Martian Dreams for sale on Amazon, and a few Savage Empires. If you are
considering, make sure you get ones that have color maps listed- not all
versions of MD came with them.
-thehawk >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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External
Since: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 605
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 13 May 2006 21:17:15 -0700, thehawk
<thehawk5150at.TakeThisOut@hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>
>I do have to say tho, that while looking these up, there are several
>Martian Dreams for sale on Amazon, and a few Savage Empires. If you are
>considering, make sure you get ones that have color maps listed- not all
>versions of MD came with them.
Can't justify the money. I've seen them on eBay. I did finally get
UIX. (Not the Dragon Edition like I wanted, but I got a really good
deal on this right before Thanksgiving, so I could easily still hunt
down the DE and sell this & probably get my money back.)
Since I only have 2 originals, well original PC versions, and the rest
are in the collection (and even the Underworlds are in a set, not the
originals), I'm not too concerned from a collecting point of view.
Though it would be nice to at least have them all, including WoU.
Maybe I can put that on my life's goals. 
OK, I've been meaning to finish dinner for the last hour. Mostly put
together, just needs put in the oven. And then we decide: game or
movie? Game or movie? Hmm, not easy to do combat with plate in hand.
Game until dinner is ready. Then movie while eating. Sounds like a
fair deal. (And dishes whenever I get around to them. )
--
Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa4
Never compare yourself to the best others can do,
but rather to the best you can do. >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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External
Since: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 640
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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erimess wrote:
> On Sat, 13 May 2006 21:17:15 -0700, thehawk
> <thehawk5150at.TakeThisOut@hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>
>> I do have to say tho, that while looking these up, there are several
>> Martian Dreams for sale on Amazon, and a few Savage Empires. If you are
>> considering, make sure you get ones that have color maps listed- not all
>> versions of MD came with them.
>
> Can't justify the money. I've seen them on eBay. I did finally get
*chuckles* I shouldn't, but I do. When I actually work, I make decent
money, I am single, and the cat does not like a lot of toys. Altho I
think she is getting a bigger mansion scratching post when I start
getting paid again.
> UIX. (Not the Dragon Edition like I wanted, but I got a really good
> deal on this right before Thanksgiving, so I could easily still hunt
> down the DE and sell this & probably get my money back.)
I don't see DE too much on ebay these days. Once in a while tho. I
have it, altho I have no idea at the moment what it has that the regular
edition does not. Except the ginormous box that I keep a bunch of other
Ultima stuff in.
> Since I only have 2 originals, well original PC versions, and the rest
> are in the collection (and even the Underworlds are in a set, not the
> originals), I'm not too concerned from a collecting point of view.
> Though it would be nice to at least have them all, including WoU.
> Maybe I can put that on my life's goals.
For me, it started out being all about the maps. I have a thing with
maps, and I wanted all of them. It just kind of grew from there for the
Ultima stuff, and a couple of others. Notably, Might and Magic,
Wizardry, Moebius/Windwalker, and the AD&D Gold Box set.
The other couple of things to track down are Space Rogue and Knights of
Legend.
> OK, I've been meaning to finish dinner for the last hour. Mostly put
I made thehawk's world famous (yet still strangely unknown) incredible
pasta salad last night. It will last most of the week, so dinner is
pretty easy.
> together, just needs put in the oven. And then we decide: game or
> movie? Game or movie? Hmm, not easy to do combat with plate in hand.
> Game until dinner is ready. Then movie while eating. Sounds like a
> fair deal. (And dishes whenever I get around to them. )
Heh. Yea, I follow that plan for dishes a lot too. I really am going
to have to hire a maid. And someone to help with some interior
decoration type stuff. Make this place look almost like a real house.
Well, at least the guest room and guest bathroom. The computer desk
here in the living room is only going to get bigger.
-thehawk >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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Since: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 640
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Paulon wrote:
> With a deafening roar and a whoosh of spray, Samurai swings about and
> addresses the awaiting newsgroup...
>
>> Quoth Paulon <-@.-.>:
>> ...
>>> I wish EA would do something nice, like rerelease the games and
>>> documentation. Fat chance of that though.
>> Given that the Ultima Collection sold out, and the price Ultimas
>> continue to fetch on eBay, you'd think EA would have some sense that
>> there's still a demand. Apparently not, sadly.
>
> This is a company that has _twice_ developed a new Ultima-based MMORPG to
> late stages, then dumped each as a potential threat to Ultima Online. Given
> that, I'm not sure they live on the same planet as the rest of us where
> concepts like money and demand are concerned.
>
Oh yea. Good point. I forgot about that part. Sanity may be far far away.
-thehawk >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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Since: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 640
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Paulon wrote:
> With a deafening roar and a whoosh of spray, thehawk swings about and
> addresses the awaiting newsgroup...
>
>> The other couple of things to track down are Space Rogue and Knights
>> of Legend.
>
> As a game, Knights of Legend isn't that great. Well, to be more accurate,
> it's a nice concept, but a real pain in the backside to play. *shudders at
> the memory*
>
> It _does_ have that connection with U6 though. I get the impression (not
> having had the patience to complete the game) that it's the leadup to
> Segallion winding up in Britannia, so chronologically it must come a little
> before U6.
I have the game itself somewhere (I inherited a large box of disks a few
years back), but, again (heh) I am interested in the map.
-thehawk >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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External
Since: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 640
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:42 am
Post subject: Re: Cluebook Conundrum [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Polychromic wrote:
> On Wed, 17 May 2006 07:15:46 +0000 (UTC), Paulon <-@.-.> wrote:
>
>> With a deafening roar and a whoosh of spray, Polychromic swings about
>> and addresses the awaiting newsgroup...
>>
>>> On Tue, 16 May 2006 23:10:45 -0400, Helgraf Dragon
>>> <helgraf.TakeThisOut@ultima-dragons.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Paulon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It _does_ have that connection with U6 though. I get the impression
>>>>> (not having had the patience to complete the game) that it's the
>>>>> leadup to Segallion winding up in Britannia, so chronologically it
>>>>> must come a little before U6.
>>>> Yes.
>>> I'm still waiting for the sequel that Origin promised.
>> The addons, with things like the lands to the east and what happened to the
>> Duke?
>
> Well at least one, to tie up the plot.
After I become fabulously wealthy beyond all capability for human
thought or understanding, and I buy Origin and all its intellectual
property (give or take some details), I will keep this in mind.
-thehawk >> Stay informed about: Cluebook Conundrum |
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