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Since: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 73
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:24 pm
Post subject: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? Archived from groups: alt>games>civ3 (more info?)
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Playing some Civ3 last night, I made note of some of the AI problems
that especially bug me - not new stuff, I just never bothered to write
them down before.
What I'm wondering is, since some of these are obvious bugs and not
just generic AI limitations, does anyone know if these things were
ever fixed in any of the patches? (I'm playing Civ3 Conquests 1.0, no
patches, just straight off the CD.) If things were fixed at some
point, what would that be, and what level should I patch it up to? (I
don't want to break anythign that currently works fine, as some
patches have been known to do...)
AI Confusion Over ROP Agreements:
Early in a scenario I can usually negotiate Right of Passage treaties
with most other civs if I want. Later, after I've been in any sort of
war at all, no one will agree to a ROP because they say "You had a ROP
with X and broke it to attack them!" even when this is totally false,
when I never had a ROP at all with the civ that I had been fighting.
AI Confusion Over Trade:
Sometimes an AI will accept a deal (or at least that annoying advisor
girl says they would accept it) and then for some reason I try to
sweeten the deal and make it better for them, and now it says they
would be insulted by that offer! Example, if I want to give away a
city that I don't want any more, and have a deal to trade some
resource for another, and try to give them the city as a bonus, then
they won't take it. They won't even agree to military alliances
against another civ that we are both already at war with!
AI Confusion Over Locked Alliances:
That behavior up above about ROPs even happens when I am in a locked
alliance with an AI and couldn't attack them even if I wanted to. For
example, I was in a locked alliance with Denmark, got a ROP with
Denmark, then I got into a war with Germany, then later when the ROP
had expired Denmark they refused to renew it because I had "betrayed
the Germans" - even though I had never had a ROP with Germany, and
both Denmark and I were in fact at war with Germany, and Germany was
attacking Denmark!
AI Confusion Over Who Contacted Whom:
This is just a minor annoyance, but when one of the AIs contacts me to
offer a deal, and I don't want the deal, they give me that smartass
"Why are you wasting my time?" response. Hey, I didn't contact you,
buddy, you contacted me and your deal just wasn't what I wanted!
Was any of this stuff fixed in patches to Civ3?
Was any of this stuff fixed in Civ4? >> Stay informed about: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? |
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Since: Jul 20, 2006 Posts: 10
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:59 am
Post subject: Re: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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BP <reply.TakeThisOut@newsgroup.please> wrote:
You forgot in this post the IMHO most annoying feature of civ3
(and maybe the main reason I immediately switched to Civ4):
The AI seems to moronically create cities anywhere I do not have
culture, regardless of if they could possibly have any use for the city
and completely ignorant of that the position might force me into war
(ie cutting off peninsulas). And any war (even a short one against an
obscure city in a desert) almost always provoced all kind of alliances
against me. My solution in Civ3 was to fill my territory with cities,
most of which were utterly useless (or worse) due to ridiculous
corruption rates.
Another thing was that in civ3 it was fairly easy (at lower levels) to
reach the point where there was nothing more to discover/build. In my
experience this is not possible in civ4.
--
Kaj >> Stay informed about: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? |
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Since: Jul 10, 2004 Posts: 532
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:03 am
Post subject: Re: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"BP" <reply DeleteThis @newsgroup.please> wrote in message
news:b07qp3ht9q6s0jgfhcglmldtk0l37t1ko8@4ax.com...
> Playing some Civ3 last night, I made note of some of the AI problems
> that especially bug me - not new stuff, I just never bothered to write
> them down before.
>
> What I'm wondering is, since some of these are obvious bugs and not
> just generic AI limitations, does anyone know if these things were
> ever fixed in any of the patches? (I'm playing Civ3 Conquests 1.0, no
> patches, just straight off the CD.) If things were fixed at some
> point, what would that be, and what level should I patch it up to? (I
> don't want to break anythign that currently works fine, as some
> patches have been known to do...)
Most C3C players are using patch 1.22... If it breaks the safedisc
protection, nocd cracks are still available for it. Version 1.0 had some
sort of reverse corruption model where building the FP actually made
corruption worse.
> AI Confusion Over ROP Agreements:
> Early in a scenario I can usually negotiate Right of Passage treaties
> with most other civs if I want. Later, after I've been in any sort of
> war at all, no one will agree to a ROP because they say "You had a ROP
> with X and broke it to attack them!" even when this is totally false,
> when I never had a ROP at all with the civ that I had been fighting.
Declaring war with any of your units on their territory constitutes ROP
abuse, whether or not you actually have an active ROP. You will always take
a rep hit for it.
> AI Confusion Over Trade:
> Sometimes an AI will accept a deal (or at least that annoying advisor
> girl says they would accept it) and then for some reason I try to
> sweeten the deal and make it better for them, and now it says they
> would be insulted by that offer! Example, if I want to give away a
> city that I don't want any more, and have a deal to trade some
> resource for another, and try to give them the city as a bonus, then
> they won't take it. They won't even agree to military alliances
> against another civ that we are both already at war with!
Trading of cities was taken out in vanilla civ3. The only way to trade a
city is to offer it as a gift or demand one as part of a peace deal. As soon
as you attach anything else to the trade, the AI won't accept it.
> AI Confusion Over Locked Alliances:
> That behavior up above about ROPs even happens when I am in a locked
> alliance with an AI and couldn't attack them even if I wanted to. For
> example, I was in a locked alliance with Denmark, got a ROP with
> Denmark, then I got into a war with Germany, then later when the ROP
> had expired Denmark they refused to renew it because I had "betrayed
> the Germans" - even though I had never had a ROP with Germany, and
> both Denmark and I were in fact at war with Germany, and Germany was
> attacking Denmark!
See above comments about ROP abuse. Locked alliances are only in scenarios
anyway.
>
> AI Confusion Over Who Contacted Whom:
> This is just a minor annoyance, but when one of the AIs contacts me to
> offer a deal, and I don't want the deal, they give me that smartass
> "Why are you wasting my time?" response. Hey, I didn't contact you,
> buddy, you contacted me and your deal just wasn't what I wanted!
That's just some sort of scripting error and was probably never fixed.
> Was any of this stuff fixed in patches to Civ3?
The biggest reason to upgrade to at least 1.15f and preferably 1.22 is the
improved corrruption model. Like i said before, it is broken in version 1.0f
>
> Was any of this stuff fixed in Civ4?
I don't have any experience with civ4 but my understanding is that it is a
completely different game. >> Stay informed about: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? |
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Since: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 73
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:17 am
Post subject: Re: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:03:29 GMT, "The Stare" wrote:
>Most C3C players are using patch 1.22... If it breaks the safedisc
>protection, nocd cracks are still available for it. Version 1.0 had some
>sort of reverse corruption model where building the FP actually made
>corruption worse.
Thanks, I'll lookfor that patch. Good to hear that there is a NoCD, as
I prefer that anyway - would rather not have to handle CDs all the
time, or hunt for CDs borrowed by my kids.
>Declaring war with any of your units on their territory constitutes ROP
>abuse, whether or not you actually have an active ROP. You will always take
>a rep hit for it.
Y'know, that... just... makes absolutely NO SENSE at all!
However it is completely consistent with my experience in the game, so
I am sure that you are right - even if it makes NO SENSE AT ALL.
So even if I am playing Viking raiders on a hit and run, I have to
declare war before moving units into enemy territory? Arg!
I guess what makes it even more confusing is the poor scripting, where
the AI blathers on about ROP violations even when there was no ROP.
>Trading of cities was taken out in vanilla civ3. The only way to trade a
>city is to offer it as a gift or demand one as part of a peace deal. As soon
>as you attach anything else to the trade, the AI won't accept it.
OK, thanks. So I guess in my Viking scenario, after I've gotten my
loot from a city I need to offer it as a gift back to the original
owner, so that he can build more treasure there so I can come back and
raid it again 50 years down the line. *g*
Thanks for the info!
BP >> Stay informed about: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? |
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Since: Jan 28, 2008 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:56 am
Post subject: Re: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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The Stare wrote:
>
> "BP" <reply DeleteThis @newsgroup.please> wrote in message
> news:b07qp3ht9q6s0jgfhcglmldtk0l37t1ko8@4ax.com...
....
>> AI Confusion Over ROP Agreements:
>> Early in a scenario I can usually negotiate Right of Passage treaties
>> with most other civs if I want. Later, after I've been in any sort of
>> war at all, no one will agree to a ROP because they say "You had a ROP
>> with X and broke it to attack them!" even when this is totally false,
>> when I never had a ROP at all with the civ that I had been fighting.
>
> Declaring war with any of your units on their territory constitutes ROP
> abuse, whether or not you actually have an active ROP. You will always
> take a rep hit for it.
I've never noticed this before, but that's probably because I seldom
start wars; I generally get more military activity than I'm interested
in merely by waiting for my rivals to attack me.
I also tend to be very leery of negotiating ROPs. The risks seem
excessive, given the rapacity of even the most peaceful AI players. That
makes me wonder if this message comes up only if you've had an ROP -
which leads me to speculate that it may be a legitimate message - maybe
the OP lost track of which civs he had an active ROP with?
If what you say is an accurate description of how the game works, it
doesn't make sense. If you don't have an ROP, you can't abuse it, no
matter what you do. What you can do is violate their sovereign
territory, and that's what the message should say. Taking a rep hit as a
result makes sense, but it shouldn't be as big of a hit as if you took
advantage of an actual ROP to launch an attack. >> Stay informed about: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? |
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Since: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 73
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:56 am
Post subject: Re: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:56:09 GMT, James Kuyper wrote:
>That
>makes me wonder if this message comes up only if you've had an ROP -
>which leads me to speculate that it may be a legitimate message - maybe
>the OP lost track of which civs he had an active ROP with?
No, I didn't lose track, I never had a ROP with the people I attacked.
I *know* that would be a non-no!
The Stare's info is correct, the "You violated a ROP" message comes up
even if there never was any ROP. I haven't tested yet, but I suspect
it is just as he said, it comes from attacking without having declared
war first. The "violated a ROP" part of the message is just bad
scripting in the game.
>If what you say is an accurate description of how the game works, it
>doesn't make sense. If you don't have an ROP, you can't abuse it, no
>matter what you do. What you can do is violate their sovereign
>territory, and that's what the message should say. Taking a rep hit as a
>result makes sense, but it shouldn't be as big of a hit as if you took
>advantage of an actual ROP to launch an attack.
I agree that is how it *should* be. Unfortunately, that isn't the way
the game seems to work.
BP >> Stay informed about: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? |
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Since: Feb 08, 2008 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 28 Jan 2008 07:59:50 GMT, kaj.stenberg.TakeThisOut@helsinki.fi.invalid wrote:
>BP <reply.TakeThisOut@newsgroup.please> wrote:
>The AI seems to moronically create cities anywhere I do not have
>culture, regardless of if they could possibly have any use for the city
>and completely ignorant of that the position might force me into war
>(ie cutting off peninsulas). And any war (even a short one against an
>obscure city in a desert) almost always provoced all kind of alliances
>against me. My solution in Civ3 was to fill my territory with cities,
>most of which were utterly useless (or worse) due to ridiculous
>corruption rates.
>
I stick to the R&R mod for Civ 3, but I have noticed apparently the
same thing, but over time, I am discovering that in many cases, those
obnoxious cities in the middle of nowhere cover the territory of
important resources later in the game such as oil or uranium....
>Another thing was that in civ3 it was fairly easy (at lower levels) to
>reach the point where there was nothing more to discover/build. In my
>experience this is not possible in civ4. >> Stay informed about: Civ3 AI problems - were any of these patched? |
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