Christmas Update Predictions

> What I'm most interested in is the ordinary dungeon levels and how he
> does the corridors as to avoid all sorts of oddities like "wide"
> corridors/
> "pseudo rooms" (a squarish block of "wide" corridor), corridors that
> take
> off part of a room's walls, etc.
>
> Just check for all the oddities, and if any of them exists, then generate
> again. Shouldn't be too hard to implement.

Do you like these layouts?

http://irreality.eu/rl/100StandardDungeons.txt

http://irreality.eu/rl/1LargeDungeon.txt

They are not from ADOM, but from a dungeon generator I coded some
months ago. My goal was not to clone the ADOM generator, but as the
ADOM generator is my favourite from the roguelikes I know, I did aim
to replicate many of its features.

I planned to release the code for this but I have been really busy for
the last months so it fell into oblivion. But I can still release it
if there is interest.
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> ADOM is the best, of course, and has a lot of
> complexities, but you can understand quite a few things just by looking at
> the game. For instance the cavern levels can be seen to be normal levels
> with large balls of space added wherever there should be doors (thus
> retaining some original features like corridors and some square walls, but
> making a much more open level). River generation is... well, quite flawed
> actually. They're just thrown in the middle of the level, meaning that you
> can end up with dungeon features like altars or the stairs smack in the
> middle of a wide river. The maze levels are much more interesting - I
> don't
> know how he does those, but I imagine it's a simple algorithm that can
> produce conplex looking results.
>

There are several well-known maze generation algorithms out there,
ex. Prim's algorithm, Kruskal's algorithm, depth-first search, etc.

What I'm most interested in is the ordinary dungeon levels and how he
does the corridors as to avoid all sorts of oddities like "wide"
corridors/
"pseudo rooms" (a squarish block of "wide" corridor), corridors that
take
off part of a room's walls, etc.


Just check for all the oddities, and if any of them exists, then generate
again. Shouldn't be too hard to implement.
 >> Stay informed about: Christmas Update Predictions 

On Jan 13, 11:56 pm, "Carlos Gómez Rodríguez (Al-Khwarizmi)"
<kom... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> > What I'm most interested in is the ordinary dungeon levels and how he
> > does the corridors as to avoid all sorts of oddities like "wide"
> > corridors/
> > "pseudo rooms" (a squarish block of "wide" corridor), corridors that
> > take
> > off part of a room's walls, etc.
>
> > Just check for all the oddities, and if any of them exists, then generate
> > again. Shouldn't be too hard to implement.
>
> Do you like these layouts?
>
> http://irreality.eu/rl/100StandardDungeons.txt
>
> http://irreality.eu/rl/1LargeDungeon.txt
>
> They are not from ADOM, but from a dungeon generator I coded some
> months ago. My goal was not to clone the ADOM generator, but as the
> ADOM generator is my favourite from the roguelikes I know, I did aim
> to replicate many of its features.
>
> I planned to release the code for this but I have been really busy for
> the last months so it fell into oblivion. But I can still release it
> if there is interest.

They are really nice, could you please release the code (or algorithm,
whatever is easier). BTW what language is it written in?

Malorzean
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On Jan 13, 3:12 am, Krice <pau....TakeThisOut@mbnet.fi> wrote:
> On 13 tammi, 08:41, "Pavel Mencik" <pmen....TakeThisOut@seznam.cz> wrote:
>
> > Just check for all the oddities, and if any of them exists, then generate
> > again.
>
> No, I think you have three good options:
> 1. Make sure oddities will not be created using good algorithms


And how do you do that? That seems the most appealing. Do
you have any theories as to how ADOM does it?
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On Jan 13, 3:09 am, Krice <pau....DeleteThis@mbnet.fi> wrote:
> On 12 tammi, 22:07, mike3 <mike4....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > What I'm most interested in is the ordinary dungeon levels and how
> > he does the corridors as to avoid all sorts of oddities like "wide"
> > corridors/"pseudo rooms" (a squarish block of "wide" corridor),
> > corridors that take off part of a room's walls, etc.
>
> Rooms and their connections can be arranged with strict
> rules to avoid those oddities, starting from grid-based
> room generation. You may also want to create rules for
> corridors so they don't remove room walls and when
> hitting a room wall a) go around it or b) connect
> to that room.
> It's also possible to clean up the mess afterwards,
> at least wide corridors should be quite easy to fix.

But how do you generate corridors that satisfy these
rules, anyway? Just use trial and error random generation
and check if it satisfies them?
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On Jan 13, 5:56 am, "Carlos Gómez Rodríguez (Al-Khwarizmi)"
<kom... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> > What I'm most interested in is the ordinary dungeon levels and how he
> > does the corridors as to avoid all sorts of oddities like "wide"
> > corridors/
> > "pseudo rooms" (a squarish block of "wide" corridor), corridors that
> > take
> > off part of a room's walls, etc.
>
> > Just check for all the oddities, and if any of them exists, then generate
> > again. Shouldn't be too hard to implement.
>
> Do you like these layouts?
>
> http://irreality.eu/rl/100StandardDungeons.txt
>
> http://irreality.eu/rl/1LargeDungeon.txt
>
> They are not from ADOM, but from a dungeon generator I coded some
> months ago. My goal was not to clone the ADOM generator, but as the
> ADOM generator is my favourite from the roguelikes I know, I did aim
> to replicate many of its features.
>
> I planned to release the code for this but I have been really busy for
> the last months so it fell into oblivion. But I can still release it
> if there is interest.

Hmm. It looks pretty nice. May I see the code?
 >> Stay informed about: Christmas Update Predictions 

On 14 tammi, 01:56, mike3 <mike4....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> But how do you generate corridors that satisfy these
> rules, anyway?

I don't mind about wide corridors, but I guess to make
sure you don't get oddities you can use pathfinding and
create rules for that to search a path that doesn't
trash anything. Corridors could be arranged so
that there are no crossing corridors when rooms are
connected. If you just randomly pick rooms to connect
then corridors will travel all around the level and
create mess.

> Just use trial and error random generation
> and check if it satisfies them?

No. Use generation that knows what it's doing.
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On 14 tammi, 01:53, mike3 <mike4... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> Do you have any theories as to how ADOM does it?

No but ADOM's dungeon generation is so dumb that it's
answering to the question itself. You can't create mess
with that kind of simple dungeon generation.
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On Jan 14, 2:55 am, Krice <pau....RemoveThis@mbnet.fi> wrote:
> On 14 tammi, 01:53, mike3 <mike4....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Do you have any theories as to how ADOM does it?
>
> No but ADOM's dungeon generation is so dumb that it's
> answering to the question itself. You can't create mess
> with that kind of simple dungeon generation.

I'm sorry, but it's not at all obvious to me how it does it.
I guess I'm not much of an expert in trying to discover an
algorithm from the output as you seem to be What,
does it just draw tunnels randomly all over the place
with a trial/error approach, ie. test the candidate tunnel
path, see if it doesn't lead to "weird" conditions, discard
if it does, insert if it doesn't, repeat? That's just a guess
on my part.
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On Jan 14, 2:53 am, Krice <pau....DeleteThis@mbnet.fi> wrote:
> On 14 tammi, 01:56, mike3 <mike4....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > But how do you generate corridors that satisfy these
> > rules, anyway?
>
> I don't mind about wide corridors, but I guess to make
> sure you don't get oddities you can use pathfinding and
> create rules for that to search a path that doesn't
> trash anything. Corridors could be arranged so
> that there are no crossing corridors when rooms are
> connected. If you just randomly pick rooms to connect
> then corridors will travel all around the level and
> create mess.
>

It's OK for them to cross, not OK to get wide tunnels
and _definitely_ not "pseudo rooms" and tunnels
artificially widening rooms or removing parts of a
room's wall.

And what sort of pathfinding method would one use?

> > Just use trial and error random generation
> > and check if it satisfies them?
>
> No. Use generation that knows what it's doing.

But you said ADOM uses a "dumb" algorithm.
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