Christian and Warhammer

glacius.cold.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
> I am a young christian not physically. I began playing the table top
> game warhammer 40k. I have started looking through the rulebooks and
> noticed that their are a lot of references to demons and such. I refuse
> to play an army that has demons or can use them. But is is wrong to
> play the game at all. I play the necrons but i am thinking about
> switching to Dark Eldar. But after reading through the dark eldar codex
> I see that references models called incubi and succubus which are sort
> of demons. I do not want a flame war just some opinions.
>
> Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated thanks.

They're names, not actual descriptors of the units themselves. Really,
most of the things in 40K are gonna kinda go against your beliefs; that
is, they'll offend you if you're so dead set in interpreting things
literally. Not the demon thing, either, although as someone else said
they're actually daemons. I mean, essentially, every race in 40K is
interently evil except the Tyranids and Tau (and even those can be
argued). I mean, look at the Imperium of Man. Necrons are souless
killer robots. The Tau have a very strict "join us or die" policy. Orks
essentially live to fight, Tyranids live to eat. Dark Eldar routinely
practice extreme hedonism and slavery. The Eldar are overly arrogant
and worship various gods. As it's been said, nobody in the Warhammer
universe has heard of God or Satan.

I think Myrmidon hit the nail on the head: it's a fictional wargame
with fictional armies fighting battles. Part of the "feel" of 40K is
the grim, gritty darkness of it all. There are no good forces, everyone
is evil in one way or another. I have a very devout Christian friend
who plays Warhammer 40,000; he has a Tau army, a Black Templars force,
some Orks and, get this, a big Chaos force with lots and lots of
Berserkers. Blood for the Blood God and all. But he realizes that it's
pure fiction, it's a good story. He dosen't feel any guilt over it.
Daemonic forces may be "evil" in your eyes, but arn't witch hunts and
mass murder "evil" too? In wich case, anything from the Imperium of Man
is out.

It's a game. The point is to have fun. I severely dobut your immortal
soul is in danger if you play Death Guard.
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<glacius.cold.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159028651.417977.174020@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I am a young christian not physically. I began playing the table top
> game warhammer 40k. I have started looking through the rulebooks and
> noticed that their are a lot of references to demons and such. I refuse
> to play an army that has demons or can use them. But is is wrong to
> play the game at all. I play the necrons but i am thinking about
> switching to Dark Eldar. But after reading through the dark eldar codex
> I see that references models called incubi and succubus which are sort
> of demons. I do not want a flame war just some opinions.
>
> Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated thanks.
>

Sure, that's why we have daemons instead.
Everyone loves the postie after all.
--
Jon Hedge,
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glacius.cold RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
> I am a young christian not physically. I began playing the table top
> game warhammer 40k. I have started looking through the rulebooks and
> noticed that their are a lot of references to demons and such. I
> refuse to play an army that has demons or can use them.

They're not 'demons', they're 'daemons'.

That's not pedantry, I'm being serious. The 'daemons' in 40K aren't from
Hell and they're not the minions of Satan. They're effectively alien
creatures which come from an alternate dimension composed of pure energy,
and they have nothing in common with Christian teachings. I'm pretty sure
you're not going to damn your immortal soul because you use one particular
range of metal and plastic models in a wargame as opposed to another range.

But is is
> wrong to play the game at all. I play the necrons but i am thinking
> about switching to Dark Eldar. But after reading through the dark
> eldar codex I see that references models called incubi and succubus
> which are sort of demons.

Again, they're just names that the designers picked out because they thought
it sounded cool, they have nothing to do with the biblical meanings. The
Dark Eldar Incubi are heavily armoured bodyguards to an army commander, and
the succubus is the leader of a squad of lightly armed shock troops. They're
entirely mortal, flesh and blood soldiers (well, again they're small metal
miniatures, but I mean in the game background), and again they have nothing
to do with Satan.

> I do not want a flame war just some
> opinions.

The obvious solution is for you to get a Sisters of Battle army, then you
can use units with angelic-derived names like Dominions and Seraphim.

Tim
--
----------------
I can see why they've outlawed firearms in the UK. People like you wouldn't
have any toes left.
Myrmidon - Usenet out-take

If you want to reply by email, replace the asterisks with underscores.
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<glacius.cold.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159028651.417977.174020@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> I do not want a flame war just some opinions.

my opinion would start a flame war, so here's some general advice instead:
you will find a LOT of things in life extremely frustrating and upsetting if
you subscribe to religious dogma and take it that seriously.
 >> Stay informed about: Christian and Warhammer 

In article <1159028651.417977.174020 RemoveThis @h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
glacius.cold RemoveThis @gmail.com says...
> I am a young christian not physically. I began playing the table top
> game warhammer 40k. I have started looking through the rulebooks and
> noticed that their are a lot of references to demons and such. I refuse
> to play an army that has demons or can use them. But is is wrong to
> play the game at all. I play the necrons but i am thinking about
> switching to Dark Eldar. But after reading through the dark eldar codex
> I see that references models called incubi and succubus which are sort
> of demons. I do not want a flame war just some opinions.
>
> Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated thanks.
>

I'd say the issue here isn't whether a fictional game setting
depicts or includes 'Demons / Deamons', but rather on what your view of
that game is. If you look at it simply as a work of science fiction
(emphasis on fiction), then what difference does it make? Honestly, if
you play out a 40K battle between an Inquisition & Chaos force - after
the battle, no Inquisitors or Demons were really killed. They're simply
minis, and simply fancier versions of markers used to represent units
just like Chess, Checkers, or Risk.
On the other hand, if you view anything that talks about or
depicts 'Evil' or the 'super natural' as a source of temptation to do
wrong, then by definition "War Gaming" of any sort is out along with a
lot of reading material. (Whether it's 'Harry Potter', 'Lord of The
Rings' or even 'The Bible' - all of them depict subject matter that deal
with the subject of evil and the supernatural.)

If you think it's possible for people to play 'Monopoly' for
example without them being tempted to become 'Greedy' - then by
extension it's possible for people to play games dealing with War and/or
the super natural subjects without them becoming war-like or evil, etc.
(You're making a distinction between fiction and reality - and allowing
that other people are capable of making the same distinction for
themselves.) If you don't think this is the case, then you've answered
your own question on why you shouldn't play. In the final analysis,
this isn't something we can choose for you, but rather a matter of your
own view point.

Hope that helps,

Myrmidon


--
"I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."

-- Moramarth

RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org

Or...

http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Christian and Warhammer 

glacius.cold.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
> I am a young christian not physically.

Certainly not mentally either.

<snip nonsense>

> Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated thanks.

Take up masturbation instead.

--
Stephen Weir

List of Games for Sale - http://www.glipe.free-online.co.uk/index.htm
Midgard UK PBM - http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/midgard_uk_pbm/
Current eBay Auctions - http://makeashorterlink.com/?F1F521555
ICQ # 11472386
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Thanks for the replies. I feel the same way about chaos.It is not that
I can seperate fiction from reality. It is just that I do not feel
comfortable indulging in things or ideas that are ungodly and could
possibly be detrimental to my spiritual growth. I thank you for the
responses so far and would like to here more. Thank you Capt and
others.
Captain Wesker wrote:
> <glacius.cold.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1159028651.417977.174020@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >I am a young christian not physically. I began playing the table top
> > game warhammer 40k. I have started looking through the rulebooks and
> > noticed that their are a lot of references to demons and such. I refuse
> > to play an army that has demons or can use them. But is is wrong to
> > play the game at all. I play the necrons but i am thinking about
> > switching to Dark Eldar. But after reading through the dark eldar codex
> > I see that references models called incubi and succubus which are sort
> > of demons. I do not want a flame war just some opinions.
> >
> > Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated thanks.
> >
>
> I am a Born Again Christian, who also enjoys Warhammer, and other fantasy
> and science fiction products. I have the following advice to offer you,
> garnered on personal experience.
>
> Steer clear of chaos, as that is a bit too close to the line for me. Make
> sure that you are comfortable enough with any army you choose to play, that
> you are not gonna spend loads of money on it, then get convicted and get rid
> of it for considerably less. Pray about it, and make sure that God is happy
> for you to play warhammer, and that you are comfortable and strong enough in
> your salvation to be playing it.
>
> It's all down to personal conviction really. As long as you can happily say
> that you have no qualms playing warhammer(or any other RPG/tabletop game for
> that matter) and that God does not object, then fine. Be open to the holy
> spirit when making a choice of army. Make changes to unit names, or
> completely re-invent your own backstories to armies if that helps. One of
> my armies is called 7th Legion, a Space Marine army based around
> chaplains(of God). Just some little changes to unit or character names,
> which make the army really nice to play, along with a good backstory(the new
> space marine codex really helped with that one).
>
> The last thing is be wary of sharing or flaunting your hobby at church, as
> some people can have a real kneejerk reaction to it. I was sitting at the
> back of church one time, reading the new 40K rules, when one of the ladies
> at church decides to come up to me and start shouting and screaming at me
> for playing "demonic games"(one of those people you get anywhere you go, and
> just like to cause trouble). I had already had words with my pastor about
> it, and he was happy enough for me to be invlolved with the hobby, as long
> as I was cautious.
>
> Happy Gaming and God Bless.
 >> Stay informed about: Christian and Warhammer 

glacius.cold.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks for the replies. I feel the same way about chaos.It is not that
> I can seperate fiction from reality. It is just that I do not feel
> comfortable indulging in things or ideas that are ungodly and could
> possibly be detrimental to my spiritual growth. I thank you for the
> responses so far and would like to here more. Thank you Capt and
> others.

"Gaming" and "spiritual growth" are not two things that have anything
to do with eachother. Losing sleep over whether one should be playing
a game because it hints at the darker aspects of mythology is a very
Puritan practice, and most of the world has given up on such things
(science and logic have a way of doing that).

That said. it's entirely your discretion.
 >> Stay informed about: Christian and Warhammer 

In article <1159037877.165273.17550.TakeThisOut@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
ned.leavitt.TakeThisOut@gmail.com says...
>
>
> The Tyranids may be a little bit evil in character, but they are
> basically just big bugs, who just want to eat everything.
>
> -NEd
>

Hence the greatly feared Tyranid battle-cry "Hello Lunch!"

Myr

--
"I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."

-- Moramarth

RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org

Or...

http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Christian and Warhammer 

<glacius.cold DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159028651.417977.174020@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I am a young christian not physically. I began playing the table top
> game warhammer 40k. I have started looking through the rulebooks and
> noticed that their are a lot of references to demons and such. I refuse
> to play an army that has demons or can use them. But is is wrong to
> play the game at all. I play the necrons but i am thinking about
> switching to Dark Eldar. But after reading through the dark eldar codex
> I see that references models called incubi and succubus which are sort
> of demons. I do not want a flame war just some opinions.
>
> Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated thanks.
>

I am a Born Again Christian, who also enjoys Warhammer, and other fantasy
and science fiction products. I have the following advice to offer you,
garnered on personal experience.

Steer clear of chaos, as that is a bit too close to the line for me. Make
sure that you are comfortable enough with any army you choose to play, that
you are not gonna spend loads of money on it, then get convicted and get rid
of it for considerably less. Pray about it, and make sure that God is happy
for you to play warhammer, and that you are comfortable and strong enough in
your salvation to be playing it.

It's all down to personal conviction really. As long as you can happily say
that you have no qualms playing warhammer(or any other RPG/tabletop game for
that matter) and that God does not object, then fine. Be open to the holy
spirit when making a choice of army. Make changes to unit names, or
completely re-invent your own backstories to armies if that helps. One of
my armies is called 7th Legion, a Space Marine army based around
chaplains(of God). Just some little changes to unit or character names,
which make the army really nice to play, along with a good backstory(the new
space marine codex really helped with that one).

The last thing is be wary of sharing or flaunting your hobby at church, as
some people can have a real kneejerk reaction to it. I was sitting at the
back of church one time, reading the new 40K rules, when one of the ladies
at church decides to come up to me and start shouting and screaming at me
for playing "demonic games"(one of those people you get anywhere you go, and
just like to cause trouble). I had already had words with my pastor about
it, and he was happy enough for me to be invlolved with the hobby, as long
as I was cautious.

Happy Gaming and God Bless.
 >> Stay informed about: Christian and Warhammer 

glacius.cold.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:

> I refuse
> to play an army that has demons or can use them. But is is wrong to
> play the game at all.

Instead of playing 40k, try reading Bertrand Russell "Why I'm not
Christian", it can really help you.
But i'm quite confident that you were joking and trolling, those kind of
thoughts would be too fundamentalistic even for the Pope...
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"Myrmidon" <Imnot RemoveThis @home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f804181ed555f2098a8ff@news-server.woh.rr.com...
> In article <ef42q102b36 RemoveThis @news1.newsguy.com>, mrtinj RemoveThis @OLDsguy.com says...
>>
>> "Myrmidon" <Imnot RemoveThis @home.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1f7f544784c5cea798a8fc@news-server.woh.rr.com...
>> > In article <1159037877.165273.17550 RemoveThis @h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>> > ned.leavitt RemoveThis @gmail.com says...
>>
>> 40k is weird, but sometimes history is even weirder.
>>
> All I can say is "Wow!" (And thanks for the history lesson - very
> cool.)
>
> Myrmidon
>

See what you were missing acquiring all your poofta book learning on color
theory?

<grin>

On a side note - one of my customers has inquired about me painting the
'cannibal army' for his colonial collection. Since they cut-off the big
fleshy bits off their 'supply train', smoked 'em over a fire for
preservation and then stuck 'em on sticks slung over their shoulder, I'm
considering the modeling opportunties.

It should be a sight to behold.

--
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
 >> Stay informed about: Christian and Warhammer 

Franz Von G wrote:
> But i'm quite confident that you were joking and trolling, those
> kind of thoughts would be too fundamentalistic even for the Pope...

You don't live in America, do you.


--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
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