Calling all opinions!

John Parkinson <jp--usenet--spam--trap.RemoveThis@destiny.org.uk> looked up from
reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
the signs say:

>kerheb wrote:
>> I rolled up a Ice/SS tanker today and am to the point where I really
>> need to consider a travel power. Originally thought of going with Fly
>> so that I can get Air Superiority which is a personal favorite of
>> mine. It was pointed out to me that as a tank Super Jump and more
>> specifically Combat Jump with it's +Def/All would compliment the tank
>> defense better. Plus it would make jumping around mobs to herd them a
>> natural.
>>
>> I know there are plenty of opinions but what are yours and why?
>
>My Ice/ is SS and I went with Air Superiority and Fly.
>I find it works best because at lower levels you need to squeeze a lot
>in, so getting an attack (and a great one!) on the way to your travel
>power is generally more use.
>
>My power picks to 20 as Ice/SS were:
>Frozen Armor, Jab, Chilling Embrace, Haymaker, Wet Ice, Air Superiority,
>Hoarfrost, Swift, Fly, Health, Glacial Armor, Stamina.

Interesting. A couple differences to my plan for Hibernos (currently
level 14); I got punch instead of haymaker since I already knew it
worked as a great chain from my exp with an SS Brute [jab punch jab air
repeat] and I snagged permafrost at 12 to complete the slow immunity
(which was my main motivation for making an ice tank.}

Won't be getting Fly until level 24, perhaps later, but that's not an
issue these days with the temp fly and SJ powers from radio missions.

>If you go SJ instead of Fly you'd be stuck with only 2 attacks in the
>first 20 levels. Also, my gut feeling says Air Superiority's knockdown
>will mitigate at least as much damage as the def from Combat Jumping.

It's a tossup since AS will only be knocking one guy down, while combat
jumping might be giving you enough extra def to not get hit by several
guys - not to mention that elite bosses and super villains are pretty
much immune to knockdown.

Going the jump route and missing out on AS would be semi painful, but
brawl can be used as a filler.

My first (and only) level 50 started out with a wierd build:
thunderkick at 1, tk+brawl till 6th, tk air and brawl till 18, then
TK/AS/CAK till level 30-something when respecs were introduced to the
game.
At that point TK/AS/CAK were functionally identical except for status
(same cost, same damage, same cast and recharge times) and made for a
seamless hastenless attack chain. Getting slowed really sucked.

Unfortunately in the 30s vs Rikti chief soldiers it just didn't put out
enough damage - I once fought a +5 Chief and it took approximately 25
minutes to kill it. I was /regen, so it was possibly to fight
constantly for that long without inspirations.

Only did it cause I'd gotten a "hunt rikti in FF" mission and wasn't
finding many.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

kerheb wrote:
> I rolled up a Ice/SS tanker today and am to the point where I really
> need to consider a travel power. Originally thought of going with Fly
> so that I can get Air Superiority which is a personal favorite of
> mine. It was pointed out to me that as a tank Super Jump and more
> specifically Combat Jump with it's +Def/All would compliment the tank
> defense better. Plus it would make jumping around mobs to herd them a
> natural.

My opinion is take As. It's a wonderful attack.
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

kerheb wrote:
> I rolled up a Ice/SS tanker today and am to the point where I really
> need to consider a travel power. Originally thought of going with Fly
> so that I can get Air Superiority which is a personal favorite of
> mine. It was pointed out to me that as a tank Super Jump and more
> specifically Combat Jump with it's +Def/All would compliment the tank
> defense better. Plus it would make jumping around mobs to herd them a
> natural.
>
> I know there are plenty of opinions but what are yours and why?

Combat Jumping's +def buff is pretty small, but it's more than balanced
out by its rock-bottom Endurance cost. And there's a considerable speed
boost while jumping, as well, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

My Ice/Axe tanker went with Air Superiority, though. AS works well with
the soft control options of the ice and axe sets, and it gives me an
extra attack early on to supplement axe's rather lackluster early-game
powers. I think I gain more damage mitigation from using AS to keep my
enemies flat on their backs than I would have from CJ causing them to
miss 2% of the time. YMMV.
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton
"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." — Optimus Prime
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

Richard Clayton wrote:
> kerheb wrote:
>> I think I gain more damage mitigation from using AS
> to keep my enemies flat on their backs than I would have from CJ causing
> them to miss 2% of the time. YMMV.

I tried jump kick instead of air superiority on a recent trial scrapper
- never again! AS is much more reliable for turning the tide in a melee
encounter. I set it to auto fire on my level 15 martial-arts guy
(boosted recharge speed), and his foes hardly ever touch him when he
takes them on one at a time.

AS-kick-AS-kick-AS-kick punch and the toughest foe goes down... lather,
rinse repeat.

Of course if he is surrounded on all sides, he gets hit, but anybody
would. Strategy is life, I don't care how tough you think you are.
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

"kerheb" <kerheb.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189931507.256232.120290@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
| I rolled up a Ice/SS tanker today and am to the point where I really
| need to consider a travel power. Originally thought of going with Fly
| so that I can get Air Superiority which is a personal favorite of
| mine. It was pointed out to me that as a tank Super Jump and more
| specifically Combat Jump with it's +Def/All would compliment the tank
| defense better. Plus it would make jumping around mobs to herd them a
| natural.
|
| I know there are plenty of opinions but what are yours and why?

Once you get FLY the whole foe menu turns into a buffet.

You can fly over any problem spots, find a reasonable level foe clump,
land, and chow down.
Big downside is the movement speed.
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Richard Clayton wrote:
>> kerheb wrote:
>>> I think I gain more damage mitigation from using AS
>> to keep my enemies flat on their backs than I would have from CJ
>> causing them to miss 2% of the time. YMMV.
>
> I tried jump kick instead of air superiority on a recent trial scrapper
> - never again! AS is much more reliable for turning the tide in a melee
> encounter. I set it to auto fire on my level 15 martial-arts guy
> (boosted recharge speed), and his foes hardly ever touch him when he
> takes them on one at a time.
>
> AS-kick-AS-kick-AS-kick punch and the toughest foe goes down... lather,
> rinse repeat.

My high-level claws scrapper uses it as well. Between AS and Focus, I
can keep most enemies flat on their backs most of the time. It's a
little harder in the late 40s, especially against AVs, but it's still
valuable damage mitigation-- which PTM01-012 NEEDS, since its secondary
is Invulnerability and there are so damned many psychic enemies...

> Of course if he is surrounded on all sides, he gets hit, but anybody
> would. Strategy is life, I don't care how tough you think you are.

Well, that's life in the City of Heroes. Being able to take
similar-level a mob WITHOUT a single hit sounds a bit too much that like
much-discussed "'I Win' Button."
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton
"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." — Optimus Prime
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

George Johnson wrote:
> "kerheb" <kerheb.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1189931507.256232.120290@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> | I rolled up a Ice/SS tanker today and am to the point where I really
> | need to consider a travel power. Originally thought of going with Fly
> | so that I can get Air Superiority which is a personal favorite of
> | mine. It was pointed out to me that as a tank Super Jump and more
> | specifically Combat Jump with it's +Def/All would compliment the tank
> | defense better. Plus it would make jumping around mobs to herd them a
> | natural.
> |
> | I know there are plenty of opinions but what are yours and why?
>
> Once you get FLY the whole foe menu turns into a buffet.
>
> You can fly over any problem spots, find a reasonable level foe clump,
> land, and chow down.
> Big downside is the movement speed.

It can actually be an upside, if you're a chatterbox like me. Point
yourself in the right direction at a 45-degree upward angle and you can
natter uninterrupted for a minute or two. (^_^)
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton
"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." — Optimus Prime
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

On Sep 16, 2:31 am, kerheb <ker... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> I rolled up a Ice/SS tanker today and am to the point where I really
> need to consider a travel power. Originally thought of going with Fly
> so that I can get Air Superiority which is a personal favorite of
> mine. It was pointed out to me that as a tank Super Jump and more
> specifically Combat Jump with it's +Def/All would compliment the tank
> defense better. Plus it would make jumping around mobs to herd them a
> natural.
>
> I know there are plenty of opinions but what are yours and why?
>
> b.t.w...John Parkinson, your plain English guide to the Ice powers has
> been the best and was the inspiration for me to try a tank in the
> first place, thanks.

My fire tanker, Caliente Sam went with the Leaping Pool, so I normally
toggle combat jumping and acrobatics, and then switch to jumping when
I have a long way to go. I got leaping with my Fitness pool, so it
stacked with the combat jumping to the point that I can bunny hop
really well in indoor missions. With my tanker I wanted to have some
protection from things that could shut down my toggles, so I really
wanted the acrobatics. And since acrobatics helps with my combat
jumping and leaping to have better air control, I get around really
well, (and for the super long jumps I fire up the free jump pack I got
with the Good & Evil bundle.)!
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

Amigoid <lbrown-amigoid.DeleteThis@comcast.net> looked up from reading the entrails
of the web portal spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Sep 16, 2:31 am, kerheb <ker....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I rolled up a Ice/SS tanker today and am to the point where I really
>> need to consider a travel power. Originally thought of going with Fly
>> so that I can get Air Superiority which is a personal favorite of
>> mine. It was pointed out to me that as a tank Super Jump and more
>> specifically Combat Jump with it's +Def/All would compliment the tank
>> defense better. Plus it would make jumping around mobs to herd them a
>> natural.
>>
>> I know there are plenty of opinions but what are yours and why?
>>
>> b.t.w...John Parkinson, your plain English guide to the Ice powers has
>> been the best and was the inspiration for me to try a tank in the
>> first place, thanks.
>
>My fire tanker, Caliente Sam went with the Leaping Pool, so I normally
>toggle combat jumping and acrobatics, and then switch to jumping when
>I have a long way to go. I got leaping with my Fitness pool, so it
>stacked with the combat jumping to the point that I can bunny hop
>really well in indoor missions. With my tanker I wanted to have some
>protection from things that could shut down my toggles, so I really
>wanted the acrobatics.

Acrobatics only helps with holds and knockback and is mostly unnecessary
for a tanker or scrapper since they have their own resist status effects
powers.

With Wet Ice up you shouldn't be getting held unless you're getting
nailed with holds rapid fire by a whole bunch of enemies - in which case
acro may not be of much help either.
Acro and wet ice have the same end cost too, but WI gives you resists to
cold, slow, immobilize, knockback, def debuff, as well as disorient,
sleep and hold which will drop toggles.)
Not to mention that it's available at level 6 with no pre-requisites (I
took it at 8 since I took Air Superiority at 6.)

Bit different than a fire tanker whose status resists are spread around
over a bunch of different toggles + burn.

>And since acrobatics helps with my combat
>jumping and leaping to have better air control, I get around really
>well, (and for the super long jumps I fire up the free jump pack I got
>with the Good & Evil bundle.)!

I've never noticed any lack of control leaping around, it just takes a
bit of practice.

Hurdle stacks with superjump too and gives a noticeable increase to
height/distance.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

On Sep 17, 12:09 pm, Xocyll <Xoc... RemoveThis @kingston.net> wrote:
> Amigoid <lbrown-amig... RemoveThis @comcast.net> looked up from reading the entrails
> of the web portal spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Sep 16, 2:31 am, kerheb <ker... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I rolled up a Ice/SS tanker today and am to the point where I really
> >> need to consider a travel power. Originally thought of going with Fly
> >> so that I can get Air Superiority which is a personal favorite of
> >> mine. It was pointed out to me that as a tank Super Jump and more
> >> specifically Combat Jump with it's +Def/All would compliment the tank
> >> defense better. Plus it would make jumping around mobs to herd them a
> >> natural.
>
> >> I know there are plenty of opinions but what are yours and why?
>
> >> b.t.w...John Parkinson, your plain English guide to the Ice powers has
> >> been the best and was the inspiration for me to try a tank in the
> >> first place, thanks.
>
> >My fire tanker, Caliente Sam went with the Leaping Pool, so I normally
> >toggle combat jumping and acrobatics, and then switch to jumping when
> >I have a long way to go. I got leaping with my Fitness pool, so it
> >stacked with the combat jumping to the point that I can bunny hop
> >really well in indoor missions. With my tanker I wanted to have some
> >protection from things that could shut down my toggles, so I really
> >wanted the acrobatics.
>
> Acrobatics only helps with holds and knockback and is mostly unnecessary
> for a tanker or scrapper since they have their own resist status effects
> powers.
>
> With Wet Ice up you shouldn't be getting held unless you're getting
> nailed with holds rapid fire by a whole bunch of enemies - in which case
> acro may not be of much help either.
> Acro and wet ice have the same end cost too, but WI gives you resists to
> cold, slow, immobilize, knockback, def debuff, as well as disorient,
> sleep and hold which will drop toggles.)
> Not to mention that it's available at level 6 with no pre-requisites (I
> took it at 8 since I took Air Superiority at 6.)
>
> Bit different than a fire tanker whose status resists are spread around
> over a bunch of different toggles + burn.
>
> >And since acrobatics helps with my combat
> >jumping and leaping to have better air control, I get around really
> >well, (and for the super long jumps I fire up the free jump pack I got
> >with the Good & Evil bundle.)!
>
> I've never noticed any lack of control leaping around, it just takes a
> bit of practice.
>
> Hurdle stacks with superjump too and gives a noticeable increase to
> height/distance.
>
> Xocyll
> --
> I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
> a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
> Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
> FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yep, well, like I said Sam is a Fire/Fire tanker, and at first take it
was unclear which toggles were best, which were less useful, and I
wanted to stack as many protections as I could on him so he could just
stand there and BBQ enemies. He was in great shape for a while since
he had both healing flames and a temp Lubengu (spelling) vampiric heal
type power. Now with healing flames alone he has to pop a greenie now
and then.

What about the stone tanker? Is it the ultimate tanker versus psionic
attacks? When I started my tanker it seemed like the Fire Tanker had
the best combo of defenses, but now I am getting more curious about
the ice tanker, etc...

Regarding air control, when I have acrobatics on it seems I can adjust
my arc and direction a bit more, and have more control over direction
mid-leap.
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

Amigoid <lbrown-amigoid DeleteThis @comcast.net> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Sep 17, 12:09 pm, Xocyll <Xoc... DeleteThis @kingston.net> wrote:
>> Amigoid <lbrown-amig... DeleteThis @comcast.net> looked up from reading the entrails
>> of the web portal spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Sep 16, 2:31 am, kerheb <ker... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I rolled up a Ice/SS tanker today and am to the point where I really
>> >> need to consider a travel power. Originally thought of going with Fly
>> >> so that I can get Air Superiority which is a personal favorite of
>> >> mine. It was pointed out to me that as a tank Super Jump and more
>> >> specifically Combat Jump with it's +Def/All would compliment the tank
>> >> defense better. Plus it would make jumping around mobs to herd them a
>> >> natural.
>>
>> >> I know there are plenty of opinions but what are yours and why?
>>
>> >> b.t.w...John Parkinson, your plain English guide to the Ice powers has
>> >> been the best and was the inspiration for me to try a tank in the
>> >> first place, thanks.
>>
>> >My fire tanker, Caliente Sam went with the Leaping Pool, so I normally
>> >toggle combat jumping and acrobatics, and then switch to jumping when
>> >I have a long way to go. I got leaping with my Fitness pool, so it
>> >stacked with the combat jumping to the point that I can bunny hop
>> >really well in indoor missions. With my tanker I wanted to have some
>> >protection from things that could shut down my toggles, so I really
>> >wanted the acrobatics.
>>
>> Acrobatics only helps with holds and knockback and is mostly unnecessary
>> for a tanker or scrapper since they have their own resist status effects
>> powers.
>>
>> With Wet Ice up you shouldn't be getting held unless you're getting
>> nailed with holds rapid fire by a whole bunch of enemies - in which case
>> acro may not be of much help either.
>> Acro and wet ice have the same end cost too, but WI gives you resists to
>> cold, slow, immobilize, knockback, def debuff, as well as disorient,
>> sleep and hold which will drop toggles.)
>> Not to mention that it's available at level 6 with no pre-requisites (I
>> took it at 8 since I took Air Superiority at 6.)
>>
>> Bit different than a fire tanker whose status resists are spread around
>> over a bunch of different toggles + burn.
>>
>> >And since acrobatics helps with my combat
>> >jumping and leaping to have better air control, I get around really
>> >well, (and for the super long jumps I fire up the free jump pack I got
>> >with the Good & Evil bundle.)!
>>
>> I've never noticed any lack of control leaping around, it just takes a
>> bit of practice.
>>
>> Hurdle stacks with superjump too and gives a noticeable increase to
>> height/distance.
>>
>
>Yep, well, like I said Sam is a Fire/Fire tanker, and at first take it
>was unclear which toggles were best, which were less useful, and I
>wanted to stack as many protections as I could on him so he could just
>stand there and BBQ enemies. He was in great shape for a while since
>he had both healing flames and a temp Lubengu (spelling) vampiric heal
>type power. Now with healing flames alone he has to pop a greenie now
>and then.
>
>What about the stone tanker? Is it the ultimate tanker versus psionic
>attacks? When I started my tanker it seemed like the Fire Tanker had
>the best combo of defenses, but now I am getting more curious about
>the ice tanker, etc...

Only played one up to 16, but from what I recall it's the _only_ tanker
that gets any protection from psi attacks.
Rooted is nice but annoying - it gives an extra health regen effect, but
it also cuts walking speed considerably and cannot be used with speed
toggle, not even sprint, and jumping or flight shuts it off.
Swift is mandatory for a stone tank, and probably worth slotting as
well.

>Regarding air control, when I have acrobatics on it seems I can adjust
>my arc and direction a bit more, and have more control over direction
>mid-leap.

Never noticed any control issues and I've done leaps that go through at
least 270 degrees of direction changes (leaving train station usually.)

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions! 

Xocyll wrote:

>>What about the stone tanker? Is it the ultimate tanker versus psionic
>>attacks? When I started my tanker it seemed like the Fire Tanker had
>>the best combo of defenses, but now I am getting more curious about
>>the ice tanker, etc...
>
> Only played one up to 16, but from what I recall it's the _only_ tanker
> that gets any protection from psi attacks.

Yes, although I think the upcoming Willpower set is going to have
something against psi as well.

Stone is very good vs Psi, with Minerals and a couple of extra Psi def
from some IO sets my Stone/Fire tanker can laugh at Psi enemies.

> Rooted is nice but annoying - it gives an extra health regen effect, but
> it also cuts walking speed considerably and cannot be used with speed
> toggle, not even sprint, and jumping or flight shuts it off.
> Swift is mandatory for a stone tank, and probably worth slotting as
> well.

I've got 3-slotted Swift and also lots of extra +run speed from IO sets
on my Stoner. But it's well worth it, in Rooted I go faster than base run
speed and I can even move around ok in Rooted+Granite.
No relying on tele-tanking or having a pet Kin for Speed Boost.

--
John Parkinson
 >> Stay informed about: Calling all opinions!