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Next: VGA Planets 4: Client (?) Bug: Wings undocking
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External
Since: May 29, 2004
Posts: 447
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(Msg. 31) Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:03 am
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>games>vgaplanets4 (more info?)
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Magik <rickglover.RemoveThis@paulhastings.com> writes
>I am considering putting some code in place that will limit the income
>generated from any single source to 10k mc per turn. That would
>affect Centaur Marketplace, Labor Camps/Mines, Gambling Deck, Pyramid
>Lounge, etc. Do you think a blanket change like this would make
>sense?
I have been mulling this. It only makes sense if you apply it uniformly
to ALL sources of income - contraband (gold pod) sales from carefully
"grown" target enemy planets; Lizard prisoners; and particularly total
income from cities / taxes, to put a similar brake on high growth races.
There is a philosophical reasoning tool called "the principle of
reciprocity" used by lawyers, politicians etc to decide if a law is
fair. (Sadly often ignored eg Patriot Act, etc.) The idea is that you
should apply a law UNIFORMLY to ALL situations, so a law that
distinguishes between religious faiths, or ages, or immigrants etc is
not a good law. If you apply a 10k limit to a low growth race's labour
camps, you need to apply it to a high growth race's city income, and
Privateers should not be able to Money Tap more than 10k per turn per
ship, and you shouldn't be able to sell more than 10k's worth of your
multi turn stockpile of contraband which you've been hoarding for the
price to go up, and you shouldn't be able to capture more than 10k in
cash from an enemy base you ground assault, and...
Alternatively, you could accept that the game is deliberately
asymmetric, and accept that people choose races deliberately based upon
universe setups, which balances out.
--
Paul Honigmann |
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External
Since: Jun 02, 2007
Posts: 153
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(Msg. 32) Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Lord Lancelot" <polandor.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:6f6a6d3e-e17a-4bdb-8fb8-91586bf525ed@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> I think it only fair to say I would like to
>> see Scavs, Crystals, Solarians and Rebels toned down.
>
> I agree that the Scav need a town down, they are IMO the race who need
> it most. Solorians & Crystals could have a little one too, but I would
> not touch the Rebel They are far from being overpowered played by
> themself (no ally no hull plan / ship trading) they have a weak
> middle / long term economy, free parts from natives is higly dependant
> on the map and master setup, I see many games with only a few natives.
Let's see how new minefield immunity will affect games.
(I would have been *very* glad if I'd had this in P4League 05/06...)
Cheers,
Jochen |
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External
Since: Nov 28, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 33) Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 24, 6:33 am, KlingonKommand <P....TakeThisOut@nurk.fnord> wrote:
> 2. Every time a race lucks out or is played well, people say it's
> overpowered.
Yep, a lot of those balance arguments are made from the position of
the looser, backed up by calculations with dodgy assumptions  .
If the overpowered race/feature of the week was that unbalancing,
surely the whiners should be able to exploit that as well and bag
victory after victory.
> Borg have been emasculated to a shadow of
> their fearsome VGAP3 potential
I've got some decent mileage out of them so far. Although the new
chunneling (and growth) rules will make things a lot more difficult
(especially against decent players).
> [Scavs, Crystals, Solarians and Rebels [need to be] toned down] If
> you're going to arbitrarily limit income on any planet to 10,000mc per
> turn, please limit the income from taxes and cities thus too. That's
> fair. It'll force these lazy players to spread their population out and
> defend them against predators.
Now this would _really_ emasculate the Borg
Cheers,
Michael >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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External
Since: Nov 28, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 34) Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 10, 10:51 am, Magik <rickglo....DeleteThis@paulhastings.com> wrote:
> There are many single sources of income that break the game. I am
> participating in a game where the 5 Centaur Marketplaces are
> generating 200kmc+ per turn per planet because there are 4 players on
> the team and the team members are growing like mad. There is no way
> that even the EE can beat the income generated from just that one set
> of buildings. Yes, teams break the rules but that doesn't stop me
> from wanting to help the rules from not being broken too far.
I'd rather applaud your team for the race choices you made. Realizing
that a normally shunned race would enhance your capabilities like that
_should_ be rewarded.
Cheers,
Michael
PS In what order did the choices happen? >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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External
Since: May 09, 2007
Posts: 85
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(Msg. 35) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:58 am
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 26, 11:51 pm, rumata <mmoser....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> PS In what order did the choices happen?
A map is chosen first then race picking is done as follows: After all
teams have been filled, the team numbers (1 through 4) will be
randomized. Each team will get to pick 1 race for their team in order.
After each round of picking, another team gets to pick first. For
example: 1234, 4321, 2413, 3142 (whatever works out so that each time
goes 1st once, 2nd once, etc). There will be no duplicate races in
this game. Strategize the team synergy as the team races are picked.
Once a race has been chosen, it cannot be changed.
Magik >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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External
Since: Apr 16, 2007
Posts: 143
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(Msg. 36) Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:06 am
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 28, 8:00 am, Sebastian <Sebast....RemoveThis@nospam.nospam> wrote:
> > not touch the Rebel They are far from being overpowered played by
> > themself (no ally no hull plan / ship trading) they have a weak
>
> Dull argument, the Scavs are also weaker if they have no allies to get
> devices and engines from. Exspecially in mid game that hurts them much
> because everyone else has easy access to high tech engines and weapons
> and they have not (at least not as much as they would need).
>
> Sebastian
They get plenty of parts from other races and enemies wreck pod, they
could also have access to ghips not that they really need it, but
would help any warp race.
Lord Lancelot >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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External
Since: Mar 21, 2007
Posts: 106
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(Msg. 37) Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> not touch the Rebel They are far from being overpowered played by
> themself (no ally no hull plan / ship trading) they have a weak
Dull argument, the Scavs are also weaker if they have no allies to get
devices and engines from. Exspecially in mid game that hurts them much
because everyone else has easy access to high tech engines and weapons
and they have not (at least not as much as they would need).
Sebastian >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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External
Since: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 104
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(Msg. 38) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:27 am
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 30, 10:04 am, "Black No.1" <keineahnung....DeleteThis@gmx.de> wrote:
> "KlingonKommand" <P....DeleteThis@nurk.fnord> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:J+KN1DeG02dHFwsa@furfur.demon.co.uk...
>
> > Black No.1 writes
> > ...
> >>>> I think it only fair to say I would like to
> >>>> see Scavs, Crystals, Solarians and Rebels toned down.
> > ...
> >>Let's see how new minefield immunity will affect games.
>
> > I don't understand this reference. Can you explain what you're referring to
> > please - a change in a recent Host? Or a forthcoming Host? I don't read every
> > thread on this newsgroup and may have missed something important.
> > --
> > Paul Honigmann
>
> I was referring to Lord Lancelot saying that Rebels are not overpowered at the
> moment and the fact that Rebels
> now are immune to all kind of minefields when using their "RXX" command code
> feature.
>
> This immunity is especially interesting for Falcons:
>
> Take a base that is protected by a grav mf - Before the falcon would have been
> stopped by the grav mf and then would
> be damaged when flying through it with warp speed. Now it can jump - is
> stopped - flies through the mf - maybe drops
> an assault pod - and can fly out of the field without taking damage.
>
> Cheers,
> Jochen
well before u had at least one way to prevent native dustoff in the
first ten turns.
now, its the same thing, falcon goes into our minefield dustsoffs the
natives then moves to the next planet. isnt much to stop the rebels
from doing whatever they want to do anymore. >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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External
Since: May 29, 2004
Posts: 447
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(Msg. 39) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:01 am
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Why does an argument being dull make it invalid?
I believe I mentioned (discusiing Rebels in this thread) it is extremely
rare to see an experienced player with NO allies.
The basic power of the Scavs is the high breeding rate, of course, but
we're wandering too far off the original Prison Camps topic to be
relevant here.
Sebastian writes
>
>> not touch the Rebel They are far from being overpowered played by
>> themself (no ally no hull plan / ship trading) they have a weak
>
>Dull argument, the Scavs are also weaker if they have no allies to get
>devices and engines from. Exspecially in mid game that hurts them much
>because everyone else has easy access to high tech engines and weapons
>and they have not (at least not as much as they would need). >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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External
Since: May 29, 2004
Posts: 447
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(Msg. 40) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:03 am
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Black No.1 writes
....
>>> I think it only fair to say I would like to
>>> see Scavs, Crystals, Solarians and Rebels toned down.
....
>Let's see how new minefield immunity will affect games.
I don't understand this reference. Can you explain what you're referring
to please - a change in a recent Host? Or a forthcoming Host? I don't
read every thread on this newsgroup and may have missed something
important.
--
Paul Honigmann >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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External
Since: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 104
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(Msg. 41) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:45 am
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 30, 2:16 pm, "Black No.1" <keineahnung... RemoveThis @gmx.de> wrote:
> "protomatter" <protomat... RemoveThis @buckeye-express.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:035360cc-86b9-4674-ad9e-ef90ad0a93b1@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Dec 30, 10:04 am, "Black No.1" <keineahnung... RemoveThis @gmx.de> wrote:
> >> "KlingonKommand" <P... RemoveThis @nurk.fnord> schrieb im
> >> Newsbeitragnews:J+KN1DeG02dHFwsa@furfur.demon.co.uk...
>
> >> > Black No.1 writes
> >> > ...
> >> >>>> I think it only fair to say I would like to
> >> >>>> see Scavs, Crystals, Solarians and Rebels toned down.
> >> > ...
> >> >>Let's see how new minefield immunity will affect games.
>
> >> > I don't understand this reference. Can you explain what you're referring to
> >> > please - a change in a recent Host? Or a forthcoming Host? I don't read
> >> > every
> >> > thread on this newsgroup and may have missed something important.
> >> > --
> >> > Paul Honigmann
>
> >> I was referring to Lord Lancelot saying that Rebels are not overpowered at
> >> the
> >> moment and the fact that Rebels
> >> now are immune to all kind of minefields when using their "RXX" command code
> >> feature.
>
> >> This immunity is especially interesting for Falcons:
>
> >> Take a base that is protected by a grav mf - Before the falcon would have
> >> been
> >> stopped by the grav mf and then would
> >> be damaged when flying through it with warp speed. Now it can jump - is
> >> stopped - flies through the mf - maybe drops
> >> an assault pod - and can fly out of the field without taking damage.
>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Jochen
>
> > well before u had at least one way to prevent native dustoff in the
> > first ten turns.
> > now, its the same thing, falcon goes into our minefield dustsoffs the
> > natives then moves to the next planet. isnt much to stop the rebels
> > from doing whatever they want to do anymore.
>
> As native dustoff works at the end of the turn, you can still put a ship/wing in
> orbit to defend the planet -
> haing a simple base on the planet will also make it harder to dust the natives
> off. Still before you wouldn't have
> needed the ship/wing.
>
> Cheers,
> Jochen
exactly, its not like the planet with natives is right next door.
someplace easy to place a wing. sometimes its further out, and while a
minefield only slowed them down as a single minefield detonation
barely did the damage anyhow,
the real threat has always been that the native dustoff devices in
this game, are attached to hyperships. now since its been that way
from the beginiing nobody has called foul. but if it hadnt existed and
someone proposed it being placed on a hypership. im sure crying foul
would be the voice of the day.
its nice that a single race can go out and get that the natives it
needs by simply beeming it up. but at least at ne point we had the
ability to slow down the rebs from getting to them all. now we dont
even have that. just another perk for the already strong hyperraces i
suppose.
Proto >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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External
Since: Jun 02, 2007
Posts: 153
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(Msg. 42) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"KlingonKommand" <Paul.DeleteThis@nurk.fnord> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:J+KN1DeG02dHFwsa@furfur.demon.co.uk...
> Black No.1 writes
> ...
>>>> I think it only fair to say I would like to
>>>> see Scavs, Crystals, Solarians and Rebels toned down.
> ...
>>Let's see how new minefield immunity will affect games.
>
> I don't understand this reference. Can you explain what you're referring to
> please - a change in a recent Host? Or a forthcoming Host? I don't read every
> thread on this newsgroup and may have missed something important.
> --
> Paul Honigmann
I was referring to Lord Lancelot saying that Rebels are not overpowered at the
moment and the fact that Rebels
now are immune to all kind of minefields when using their "RXX" command code
feature.
This immunity is especially interesting for Falcons:
Take a base that is protected by a grav mf - Before the falcon would have been
stopped by the grav mf and then would
be damaged when flying through it with warp speed. Now it can jump - is
stopped - flies through the mf - maybe drops
an assault pod - and can fly out of the field without taking damage.
Cheers,
Jochen >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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External
Since: Jun 02, 2007
Posts: 153
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(Msg. 43) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"protomatter" <protomatter.TakeThisOut@buckeye-express.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:035360cc-86b9-4674-ad9e-ef90ad0a93b1@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 30, 10:04 am, "Black No.1" <keineahnung....TakeThisOut@gmx.de> wrote:
>> "KlingonKommand" <P....TakeThisOut@nurk.fnord> schrieb im
>> Newsbeitragnews:J+KN1DeG02dHFwsa@furfur.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> > Black No.1 writes
>> > ...
>> >>>> I think it only fair to say I would like to
>> >>>> see Scavs, Crystals, Solarians and Rebels toned down.
>> > ...
>> >>Let's see how new minefield immunity will affect games.
>>
>> > I don't understand this reference. Can you explain what you're referring to
>> > please - a change in a recent Host? Or a forthcoming Host? I don't read
>> > every
>> > thread on this newsgroup and may have missed something important.
>> > --
>> > Paul Honigmann
>>
>> I was referring to Lord Lancelot saying that Rebels are not overpowered at
>> the
>> moment and the fact that Rebels
>> now are immune to all kind of minefields when using their "RXX" command code
>> feature.
>>
>> This immunity is especially interesting for Falcons:
>>
>> Take a base that is protected by a grav mf - Before the falcon would have
>> been
>> stopped by the grav mf and then would
>> be damaged when flying through it with warp speed. Now it can jump - is
>> stopped - flies through the mf - maybe drops
>> an assault pod - and can fly out of the field without taking damage.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jochen
>
> well before u had at least one way to prevent native dustoff in the
> first ten turns.
> now, its the same thing, falcon goes into our minefield dustsoffs the
> natives then moves to the next planet. isnt much to stop the rebels
> from doing whatever they want to do anymore.
As native dustoff works at the end of the turn, you can still put a ship/wing in
orbit to defend the planet -
haing a simple base on the planet will also make it harder to dust the natives
off. Still before you wouldn't have
needed the ship/wing.
Cheers,
Jochen >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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Joined: Jan 16, 2008
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 44) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Bug: Prison Camps [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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External
Since: May 29, 2004
Posts: 447
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(Msg. 45) Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:49 pm
Post subject: Rebels (was: Prison Camps) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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protomatter writes
>the real threat has always been that the native dustoff devices in
>this game, are attached to hyperships. now since its been that way
>from the beginiing nobody has called foul. but if it hadnt existed and
>someone proposed it being placed on a hypership. im sure crying foul
>would be the voice of the day.
>its nice that a single race can go out and get that the natives it
>needs by simply beeming it up. but at least at ne point we had the
>ability to slow down the rebs from getting to them all. now we dont
>even have that. just another perk for the already strong hyperraces i
>suppose.
You could say the Rebs are the new Borg. They assimilate (grab) all the
natives early on in every game I've played with them in.
--
KlingonKommand >> Stay informed about: Bug: Prison Camps |
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